Quote:I think all the talk and footage of 'crisis actors' is largely BS. I'm not sold that what I'm seeing on those videos is unexplainable in other ways.
I'm open to hearing how the same person, i.e. "Munoz" can turn up and be interviewed in four different crises across the country. How about listing some of those other ways. You can't say it's not the same person.
I appreciate you telling me what I can't say :-)
Let me ask this if I may. Do you find this video to be convincing?
Yup. Same person and unexplainable in other ways ASAIK. So, where is the BS?
With all due respect, if you believe those images are of the same woman, then what I have to say is just for others that may be reading.
For the most part, these images are not of the same person. The exception being the Boston (upper right of the compiled image of four individual pictures) and Watertown (lower left)--which is essentially the same place and event. They may or may not be the same person, we barely see the person on the lower left (Watertown) but the person on the upper right, 'Boston', is definitely not the Munoz pictured in the upper left.
Also, there is a presentation of a bio of Munoz, consistent with the image of the woman from Newton MA, which actually serves to corroborate that Munoz is a person living and working in that area!
The transportation secretary image is a total red herring, and the author of the page even admits that and links to videos where he debunked himself.
I know you said I couldn't say what I just said, so edit as needed. ;-) But seriously, thanks for the conversation.
There are very serious issues with Orlando that the corporate media misrepresent and ignore because they are not doing the job of a free press; they have been 'captured' by outside interests. But this focus on 'crisis actors' just weakens the greater arguments. I will add that I do believe there are attention seekers at times of crisis; people that lie about their stories for face time. The most famous such case was about a woman that lied about her 9/11 experience--I think there was a book or movie and she was exposed after many years. But this is very different than implying that there are actors coordinated with shooters/bombers. Anything is possible, but this 'Munoz' is not evidence of such.
Lauren Johnson Wrote:I'm open to hearing how the same person, i.e. "Munoz" can turn up and be interviewed in four different crises across the country. How about listing some of those other ways. You can't say it's not the same person.
I appreciate you telling me what I can't say :-)
Let me ask this if I may. Do you find this video to be convincing?
Yup. Same person and unexplainable in other ways AFAIK. So, where is the BS?
With all due respect, if you believe those images are of the same woman, then what I have to say is just for others that may be reading.
For the most part, these images are not of the same person. The exception being the Boston (upper right of the compiled image of four individual pictures) and Watertown (lower left)--which is essentially the same place and event. They may or may not be the same person, we barely see the person on the lower left (Watertown) but the person on the upper right, 'Boston', is definitely not the Munoz pictured in the upper left.
Also, there is a presentation of a bio of Munoz, consistent with the image of the woman from Newton MA, which actually serves to corroborate that Munoz is a person living and working in that area!
The transportation secretary image is a total red herring, and the author of the page even admits that and links to videos where he debunked himself.
I know you said I couldn't say what I just said, so edit as needed. ;-) But seriously, thanks for the conversation.
There are very serious issues with Orlando that the corporate media misrepresent and ignore because they are not doing the job of a free press; they have been 'captured' by outside interests. But this focus on 'crisis actors' just weakens the greater arguments. I will add that I do believe there are attention seekers at times of crisis; people that lie about their stories for face time. The most famous such case was about a woman that lied about her 9/11 experience--I think there was a book or movie and she was exposed after many years. But this is very different than implying that there are actors coordinated with shooters/bombers. Anything is possible, but this 'Munoz' is not evidence of such.
Well, Ken, that shows ta go ya'. I absolutely think they are the same person and you don't. Did not think that was possible for a reasonable person to think that. But you do -- genuinely. So, thanks for the conversation.
EDIT: That would be quite the story if she was an attention seeker traveling around the country getting herself on TV as some witness.
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I
"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
Yup. Same person and unexplainable in other ways AFAIK. So, where is the BS?
With all due respect, if you believe those images are of the same woman, then what I have to say is just for others that may be reading.
For the most part, these images are not of the same person. The exception being the Boston (upper right of the compiled image of four individual pictures) and Watertown (lower left)--which is essentially the same place and event. They may or may not be the same person, we barely see the person on the lower left (Watertown) but the person on the upper right, 'Boston', is definitely not the Munoz pictured in the upper left.
Also, there is a presentation of a bio of Munoz, consistent with the image of the woman from Newton MA, which actually serves to corroborate that Munoz is a person living and working in that area!
The transportation secretary image is a total red herring, and the author of the page even admits that and links to videos where he debunked himself.
I know you said I couldn't say what I just said, so edit as needed. ;-) But seriously, thanks for the conversation.
There are very serious issues with Orlando that the corporate media misrepresent and ignore because they are not doing the job of a free press; they have been 'captured' by outside interests. But this focus on 'crisis actors' just weakens the greater arguments. I will add that I do believe there are attention seekers at times of crisis; people that lie about their stories for face time. The most famous such case was about a woman that lied about her 9/11 experience--I think there was a book or movie and she was exposed after many years. But this is very different than implying that there are actors coordinated with shooters/bombers. Anything is possible, but this 'Munoz' is not evidence of such.
Well, Ken, that shows ta go ya'. I absolutely think they are the same person and you don't. Did not think that was possible for a reasonable person to think that. But you do -- genuinely. So, thanks for the conversation.
EDIT: That would be quite the story if she was an attention seeker traveling around the country getting herself on TV as some witness.
Yes it would. That is Not my story.
Victoria Munoz lives and works in Newtown MA.
Brenda Baca (King) is from Albuquerque. Her Facebook profile is public enough to see several pictures of her. She's the woman being interviewed in Albuquerque, and she's obviously not Victoria Munoz.
The he woman in Boston/Watertown has no name given in the video (I'll not explain here why she's obviously not Victoria or Brenda)
Adriana Victoria Munoz is a Columbian secretary of transportation-a public figure. The OP of the video says in his dialogue that this is Not Victoria Munoz from Connecticut. There are links to her videos since she is a public figure.
Lauren Johnson Wrote:I'm open to hearing how the same person, i.e. "Munoz" can turn up and be interviewed in four different crises across the country. How about listing some of those other ways. You can't say it's not the same person.
I appreciate you telling me what I can't say :-)
Let me ask this if I may. Do you find this video to be convincing?
Yup. Same person and unexplainable in other ways ASAIK. So, where is the BS?
With all due respect, if you believe those images are of the same woman, then what I have to say is just for others that may be reading.
For the most part, these images are not of the same person. The exception being the Boston (upper right of the compiled image of four individual pictures) and Watertown (lower left)--which is essentially the same place and event. They may or may not be the same person, we barely see the person on the lower left (Watertown) but the person on the upper right, 'Boston', is definitely not the Munoz pictured in the upper left.
Also, there is a presentation of a bio of Munoz, consistent with the image of the woman from Newton MA, which actually serves to corroborate that Munoz is a person living and working in that area!
The transportation secretary image is a total red herring, and the author of the page even admits that and links to videos where he debunked himself.
I know you said I couldn't say what I just said, so edit as needed. ;-) But seriously, thanks for the conversation.
There are very serious issues with Orlando that the corporate media misrepresent and ignore because they are not doing the job of a free press; they have been 'captured' by outside interests. But this focus on 'crisis actors' just weakens the greater arguments. I will add that I do believe there are attention seekers at times of crisis; people that lie about their stories for face time. The most famous such case was about a woman that lied about her 9/11 experience--I think there was a book or movie and she was exposed after many years. But this is very different than implying that there are actors coordinated with shooters/bombers. Anything is possible, but this 'Munoz' is not evidence of such.
I'm with Lauren on this. So far as I'm concerned they're very clearly the same woman. Yes, there have been various attempts to change her looks but unless she has three twins it's her, I think. So we'll have to agree to differ on this. But I do agree that it is not the overriding issue here.
Meanwhile, the FBI tried to coerce Mateen's wife not to say he was gay, she claims (see below). If this is true then how can we trust anything the government and its agencies say or do when they're always trying to manipulate facts in order to manipulate public perceptions? Even as late as today the FBI keeps on pressing the ISIL button to scare the public.
So, I suppose, the question we now need to ask, is to what degree does a Gladio strategy of tension operation differ from a lone gunman event, when the state manipulates the news to create the same level of fear/loathing that a strategy of tension operation is designed to cause?
Another question would be is it possible for a person like Mateen to be psychologically modified over a period of time to become a crazy lone gunman? Based on decades old research and by now old "science" related to MKULTRA, the answer must surely be yes. So perhaps we are seeing a subtler new paradigm shift in these operations? In other words, the gradual manipulation of susceptible people's psychological fears and weaknesses to "focus" them to undertake an atrocity like Orlando.
Whatever the answers of these questions may eventually turn out to be, the end result is more or less the same: the modification of public perceptions and opinions for nefarious purposes. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see the greater geopolitical context of this event. The clue is ISIL. At the moment that translates as Syria.
A secondary reason may well be a move to reduce gun ownership in the US.
Quote:FBI Told Orlando Shooter's Wife Not to Tell US Media He Was Gay
People take part in a candlelight memorial service the day after a mass shooting at the Pulse gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, U.S. June 13, 2016. | Photo: Reuters
Published 16 June 2016
In an interview with Brazilian TV, the ex-wife of Omar Mateen claimed the U.S. agency told her to keep quiet about his homosexuality.
The U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation told the former wife of the Orlando shooter Omar Mateen, Sitora Yusufiy, not to speak of his homosexuality or the fact that she, his family and others believed he was gay, Yusufiy's current fiance, Marco Dias, told a Brazilian TV channel in an interview.
Dias told the Brazilian television station SBT Brazil Tuesday that Yusufiy believed Mateen was gay and that his father called him gay several times in front of her. However, "the FBI asked her not to tell this to the American media."
Since the attack, Mateen has been dubbed an "Islamic terrorist" by politicians, senior officials and commentators in the U.S. following reports he had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State group.
However, the idea that he could have been a closet-homosexual indicates that the Orlando shooting might have been a deeply felt and personal act of hate.
The FBI and law enforcement in the United States have so far been pursuing the "Islamist terrorism" angle and their alleged demand from Mateen's ex-wife to keep mum about his homosexuality suggests they want to downplay the personal and self-hating nature of the attack in favor of the Islamic terrorism-related one.
Since his attack on the Pulse gay nightclub in Orlando, the developing narrative surrounding Mateen's life is that of a troubled human being who had a history of domestic violence, a struggle with his sexual orientation, as well as an inclination toward a radical version of Islam.
However, in addition to recently pledging allegiance to the Islamic State group, Mateen had previously shown support for both al-Qaida and Hezbollah, who have radically different interpretations of Islam and are in fact bitter enemies.
This suggests Mateen had an extremely shallow and confused understanding of Islam as he failed to comprehend the social and political differences between the diferent groups. Hezbollah are currently fighting against the Islamic State and other radical Sunni groups in Syria.
Furthermore, Yusufiy has told the media that her ex-husband started to emotionally and physically abuse her just months into their marriage. She said he exploded in anger and often beat her while also keeping her hostage, which led her family to "literally rescue" her from the abusive relationship and Mateen's mental instability.
To add to this a former male classmate of Mateen said he had been asked out romantically by the mass shooter, who was reported to be a regular at the Pulse nightclub, having visited it more than a dozen times over the years.
Reports also suggest the attacker used several gay dating apps and communicated with several users. Kevin West, a regular at Pulse, told the Los Angeles Times he had exchanged messages with Mateen on an app.
And now, it seems the overwhelming reports and testimonies pointing to Mateen's personal motives are forcing the FBI to pursue a different angle.
On Wednesday gay dating apps Jack'd and Grindr said they had been contacted by the FBI as part of the Orlando shooting investigation. They also said they could not provide information on whether Mateen had profiles on those sites as such details are now part of a classified investigation.
A spokesman for dating app Grindr also indicated they have been contacted by authorities. In response to an inquiry from BuzzFeed News, the company announced: "We will continue to cooperate with the authorities and do not comment on ongoing investigations."
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
In view of the discussions on this event, I thought it appropriate to repost the following article from the Event Chronicle because the interviewee/whistleblower, David Steele, was a former Marine Corps intelligence officer and a CIA Clandestine Services officer and accordingly has excellent insights into covert programmes and activities. His insights on false flag operations in the US are very telling:
Quote:US Intelligence Officer: "Every Single Terrorist Attack in US was a False Flag Attack
Editor Note: This article was originally published in 2015, but it serves as a good reminder considering the recent developments in Orlando. Apart from documents that have outlined supposed terrorist threats, like Al-Qaeda, and their connection to US intelligence agencies, like the CIA, there are a number of whistleblowers that have come out adding more fuel to the fire. Because not many are even aware of these documents, letting people know about a truth that can be hard for people to accept, let alone ponder the possibility is very important. It's just one aspect of the veil that's been blinding the masses for quite some time now. The latest whistleblower is David Steele, a 20-year Marine Corps intelligence officer, and the second-highest-ranking civilian in the U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence. He is a former CIA clandestine services case officer, and this is what he had to say: "Most terrorists are false flag terrorists, or are created by our own security services. In the United States, every single terrorist incident we have had has been a false flag, or has been an informant pushed on by the FBI. In fact, we now have citizens taking out restraining orders against FBI informants that are trying to incite terrorism. We've become a lunatic asylum."
What Is A "False Flag Attack?"
A great example of a false flag attack is 9/11, something that many people believe to be a creation of US intelligence agencies, or some entity above the government (one that controls what Eisenhower called "the military industrial complex"). The idea is that these so called terrorist attacks are created by this group, in order to justify the infiltration of other countries, and to justify a heightened state of "national security." As a result, in the eyes of the citizenry, war and mass murder are justified, when the intentions behind these actions are something the citizenry has no idea about. This is why we see a false sense of patriotism programmed into many people, especially in the United States. Men and women join this massive military machine with good hearts, thinking that they are serving their country and fighting terrorism, when they are doing the complete opposite. They are only participating in a fabricated war based on lies and misinformation. "The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al-Qaeda, and any informed intelligence officer knows this. But, there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an intensified entity representing the devil' only in order to drive TV watchers to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the United States." Former British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook
Today, we might be seeing the same thing with ISIS. Although there are no verified documents like there are when it comes to Al-Qaeda, given what that information shows us, combined with Wikileaks documents and statements from insiders, we could be looking at the same thing. Not long ago, FBI whistleblower stated that:
"The US is reviving terror scare with ISIS to promote the terror war industry."
You can read more about that story here
Again, 9/11 is a great example and you can find out more information about that here. Originally published May 15, 2105
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
David Guyatt Wrote:In view of the discussions on this event, I thought it appropriate to repost the following article from the Event Chronicle because the interviewee/whistleblower, David Steele, was a former Marine Corps intelligence officer and a CIA Clandestine Services officer and accordingly has excellent insights into covert programmes and activities. His insights on false flag operations in the US are very telling:
Quote:US Intelligence Officer: "Every Single Terrorist Attack in US was a False Flag Attack
Editor Note: This article was originally published in 2015, but it serves as a good reminder considering the recent developments in Orlando. Apart from documents that have outlined supposed terrorist threats, like Al-Qaeda, and their connection to US intelligence agencies, like the CIA, there are a number of whistleblowers that have come out adding more fuel to the fire. Because not many are even aware of these documents, letting people know about a truth that can be hard for people to accept, let alone ponder the possibility is very important. It's just one aspect of the veil that's been blinding the masses for quite some time now. The latest whistleblower is David Steele, a 20-year Marine Corps intelligence officer, and the second-highest-ranking civilian in the U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence. He is a former CIA clandestine services case officer, and this is what he had to say: "Most terrorists are false flag terrorists, or are created by our own security services. In the United States, every single terrorist incident we have had has been a false flag, or has been an informant pushed on by the FBI. In fact, we now have citizens taking out restraining orders against FBI informants that are trying to incite terrorism. We've become a lunatic asylum."
What Is A "False Flag Attack?"
A great example of a false flag attack is 9/11, something that many people believe to be a creation of US intelligence agencies, or some entity above the government (one that controls what Eisenhower called "the military industrial complex"). The idea is that these so called terrorist attacks are created by this group, in order to justify the infiltration of other countries, and to justify a heightened state of "national security." As a result, in the eyes of the citizenry, war and mass murder are justified, when the intentions behind these actions are something the citizenry has no idea about. This is why we see a false sense of patriotism programmed into many people, especially in the United States. Men and women join this massive military machine with good hearts, thinking that they are serving their country and fighting terrorism, when they are doing the complete opposite. They are only participating in a fabricated war based on lies and misinformation. "The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al-Qaeda, and any informed intelligence officer knows this. But, there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an intensified entity representing the devil' only in order to drive TV watchers to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the United States." Former British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook
Today, we might be seeing the same thing with ISIS. Although there are no verified documents like there are when it comes to Al-Qaeda, given what that information shows us, combined with Wikileaks documents and statements from insiders, we could be looking at the same thing. Not long ago, FBI whistleblower stated that:
"The US is reviving terror scare with ISIS to promote the terror war industry."
You can read more about that story here
Again, 9/11 is a great example and you can find out more information about that here. Originally published May 15, 2105
A groundbreaking work of investigative journalism, The Terror Factory: Inside the FBI's Manufactured War on Terrorism exposes how the FBI has, under the guise of engaging in counterterrorism since 9/11, built a network of more than 15,000 informants whose primary purpose is to infiltrate Muslim communities to create and facilitate phony terrorist plots so that the Bureau can then claim it is winning the war on terror.An outgrowth of Trevor Aaronson's work as an investigative reporting fellow at the University of California, Berkeley, which culminated in an award-winning cover story in Mother Jonesmagazine, The Terror Factory reveals shocking information about the criminals, con men, and liars the FBI uses as paid informantsincluding the story of an accused murderer who has become one of the Bureau's most prolific terrorism snitchesas well as documenting the extreme methods the FBI uses to ensnare Muslims in terrorist plots, which are in reality conceived and financed by the FBI.The book also offers unprecedented detail into how the FBI has transformed from a reactive law enforcement agency to a proactive counterterrorism organization that traps hapless individuals in manufactured terrorist plots in order to justify the $3 billion it spends every year fighting terrorism.Trevor Aaronson is co-founder of the Florida Center for Investigative Reporting and a senior fellow at the Schuster Institute for Investigative Journalism. He was a 2010-11 investigative reporting fellow at the University of California, Berkeley, where his reporting about FBI informants in U.S. Muslim communities resulted in a Mother Jones cover story that won multiple awards, including the John Jay College/H.F. Guggenheim excellence in Criminal Justice reporting Award, the Molly National Journalism Prize, and the international Data Journalism Award.[/FONT] I get loads of "FBI" refs, but it's the moral dyslexia of 'fib'.
Martin Luther King - "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
Albert Camus - "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion".
Douglas MacArthur — "Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons."
Albert Camus - "Nothing is more despicable than respect based on fear."
“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him.â€
― Leo Tolstoy,
A man claiming to be Omar Mateen's former lover says the Orlando shooter killed 49 people at a nightclub out of a grudge against a particular group of men. In an interview with Univision, the man who gave his name as "Miguel" and wore heavy makeup as an apparent disguise described Mateen as a heavy drinker who loved to cuddle and had a love of some Latinos but not all of them. "He hated Puerto Rican gays because of the bad things they did to him," Miguel reportedly said. Miguel claimed the rage was born after Mateen, who was twice married to women, participated in an unprotected gay threesome after which one of the men revealed to him that he was HIV positive.
"In my opinion, he did it for revenge," Miguel claimed. Miguel claimed he met Mateen on a gay app and that they spent two months as lovers. Miguel described Mateen as "a very sweet guy" who never seemed violent and who loved to cuddle. However, Miguel claimed Mateen wanted no lasting evidence of their time together. "We never took a picture together, but it wasn't because I didn't want to," he said. "One time we were in bed together and I took my phone to take a selfie and he grabbed my arm and told me not to do it because we weren't a couple."
While Univision could not confirm Miguel's claims, the FBI did verify that they've questioned the killer's purported former lover. "I've spent about four days of hell because my phone won't stop ringing," Miguel said. Miguel isn't the first to suggest Mateen enjoyed spending time with gay men. Multiple witnesses have come forward in the wake of the tragedy with claims that Mateen was a regular at Pulse nightclub. Other men have claimed to have known Mateen's face from the gay chat and dating apps Grindr and Jack'd.
***********
Another crisis actor? Let's compare:
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
'Curiouser and curiouser!' cried Alice (she was so much surprised, that for the moment she quite forgot how to speak good English).......::thumbsdown:: Oh dear, what nonsense I'm talking!' said Alice.
OK, this event was staged, clearly, by by whom and for whom....seems for sure the police, at least these we see, were involved in some way. Welcome to the Brave New World of fake news events. Even IF this guy was secret protection for Trump and/or against trouble at a Trump rally, it is propaganda and unreal the way it was played....like a Wurlitzer. The number of big Black men who are Trump supporters you can count on the head of a pin.....and those that will dump a backpack with a gun [allegedly] while wearing a Trump shirt and looking like a big fat sore thumb in a car park would be vanishingly small. But I'm sure glad the friendly policeman took him home to Mommy and Daddy where he belongs.:: Who writes this stuff and just how stupid do they think the Public are?!~
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
![[Image: fbi_told_orlando_shooterxs_wife_not_to_t...483346.jpg]](http://www.telesurtv.net/__export/1466059529208/sites/telesur/img/news/2016/06/16/fbi_told_orlando_shooterxs_wife_not_to_tell_us_media_he_was_gay.jpg_1718483346.jpg)
: Who writes this stuff and just how stupid do they think the Public are?!~