25-01-2018, 11:22 PM (This post was last modified: 28-01-2018, 07:26 PM by LR Trotter.)
Alan Ford Wrote:Here, with the aid of photos in front of the TSBD building, and these words from Roy "tall-tales" Truly, quote ---->
Mr. Ball.
You have no exact memory as to the time you discovered he was not there? Mr. Truly.
No, sir; I didn't believe after thinking things over--it was over in 15 or 20 minutes after the shots were fired, but after retracing my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, I would have to say that it was farther along in the day than I had believed, so it could have been I or 1:05 or something like that.
let's clearly demonstrate how Dallas Deputy Sheriff John Wiseman was right on the heels of Roy Truly & Marrion Baker IF they really tried to access the 7th floor, let alone venture up upon an otherwise LOCKED roof as they claim. Beginning with these photo images ---->
[FONT=&]*Credit JFK top notch researcher [/FONT]Linda Zambino
we note Victoria Elizabeth Adams standing out in front of the building...now, onward to a wider shot of the same photo extended more to the right, we see the lady Dallas Deputy-Sheriff John Wiseman makes reference to in his affidavit (Marilyn Sitzman, dark scarf) ---->
[FONT=&]*Credit JFK top notch researcher [/FONT]Linda Zambino
Tying the testimony of how fast Victoria Elizabeth Adams gets to the front of the building (three minutes tops), and how far Marilyn Stizman has come from her position where she initially spoke with Deputy John Wiseman, and his subsequent actions, quote, [FONT=&]I ran at once to the Sexton Building and went in, there is little doubt she would be ahead of a sprinting lawman, who was by the time of this photo already in position, charging up those backstairs--the same backstairs the lying tandem said they ran up--yet he does not cross paths with them anywhere on those backstairs, nor near the 7th floor, let alone upon an otherwise LOCKED roof.
Somebody is lying here, and it's not the wrongly accused...
Now, How was that again, Roy Truly? ----->
[/FONT]Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.[FONT=&]
[/FONT][FONT=&]Roy Truly's "truth" is anything but the truth...How's that Allen Welsh Dulles?, you need yet another Discussion off the record?!
[/FONT]
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer.
Pleading the 5th?, Roy Truly...
Presenting photographs as a timing evidence issue lacks credibility without provable confirmation of an exact time of said photographs.
Indications are that RoyTruly gave his best estimate relative to timing of events, and then after a recap of thought, he adjusted his estimates. Nothing unusual.
Time and time again, again, the statement of Deputy JohnWiseman indicates him to be at least 5 minutes behind Mr Truly and Officer ML Baker as he and other officers began searching the TSBD.
Repeating, and repeating again, and again, time and time again, and again, will not factualize assertions that are beyond fact.
26-01-2018, 05:48 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2018, 06:12 PM by Alan Ford.)
One line item at a time...
Presenting photographs as a timing evidence issue lacks credibility without provable confirmation of an exact time of said photographs.
On the contrary, especially when the photo(s) are of the roof displaying 12:39PM & 12:40PM upon the BIG Hertz's digital clock...which clearly demonstrates that no one, and I mean no one was atop the roof, let alone Baker climbing the Hertz clock as he claimed, nor Tall-tales, err, a height-challenged-56 year old Truly, pulling himself up over an extended high wall as he claims as well. They simply LIED. Dallas Deputy-Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman simply told the truth. He and three other lawman that I'll hold in reserve for now, not to mention Dallas Fire Station No. 3 personnel, etc. The lying tandem simply LIED. Why? is the $64,000 question...
Indications are that RoyTruly gave his best estimate relative to timing of events, and the after a recap of thought, he adjusted his estimates. Nothing unusual.
On the contrary, no lie-detector machine could survive an encounter with Roy "Tall tales" Truly...as he continues to shift his testimony repeatedly. There's times in his testimony when it's apparent he couldn't tell you the day of the week, without WC counsel steering his response one way or another. Nap time, Roy Truly...
Time and time again, again, the statement of Deputy JohnWiseman indicates him to be at least 5 minutes behind Mr Truly and Officer ML Baker as he and other officers began searching the TSBD.
On the contrary, given John Wiseman's exchange with Marilyn Stizman--more than half a football field away from the front of the building on the knoll, and his subsequent mad dash away from her position over to the TSBD, there is no one who is going to believe she walked faster than someone at a full sprint.
As the photo clearly shows, Marilyn Stizman is in the same frame as Victoria Elizabeth Adams, who took up her position in front of the building between 2 1/2 minutes to no more than three (3) minutes following the last shot. (Moreover, in his testimony, DPD Officer Welcome Barnett puts her out there even sooner, but I'm just sharing conservative figures here to aid Truly's tall-tale to no avail, no matter how much I try to give the weasel the benefit of the doubt. He simply LIED. No one thinks and/or believes Ms. Stizman overtook a charging John "what an adrenaline rush" Wiseman as he raced away from her into a full sprint towards the TSBD, and up those backstairs to find the roof LOCKED.
Repeating, and repeating again, and again, time and time again, and again, will not factualize assertions that are beyond fact.
As in repeating/parroting back the 2nd floor phantom hoax of a lunch room encounter...over, and over, and over, and over, etc. got it.
The only time Marrion Baker told the truth was when he wrote his same day affidavit, telling us precisely where he encountered someone (the stairway), but I understand if for some people in denial that equates into a lunchroom 30' clear across the floor all the way away from the stairway.
Where was that encounter--void of a hastily contrived next day script concocted to FRAME an innocent party, Marrion Baker? ----->The Stairway
How large was the man you truly encountered, Marrion Baker? ----->
165lbs ....
as oppose to this MUCH lighter individual ----->
Lee Harvey Oswald was Framed.
Now, How was that again, Roy? ----->
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Care to elaborate further, Roy, especially upon -----> It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
26-01-2018, 10:40 PM (This post was last modified: 26-01-2018, 10:42 PM by LR Trotter.)
Alan Ford Wrote:One line item at a time...
Presenting photographs as a timing evidence issue lacks credibility without provable confirmation of an exact time of said photographs.
On the contrary, especially when the photo(s) are of the roof displaying 12:39PM & 12:40PM upon the BIG Hertz's digital clock...which clearly demonstrates that no one, and I mean no one was atop the roof, let alone Baker climbing the Hertz clock as he claimed, nor Tall-tales, err, a height-challenged-56 year old Truly, pulling himself up over an extended high wall as he claims as well. They simply LIED. Dallas Deputy-Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman simply told the truth. He and three other lawman that I'll hold in reserve for now, not to mention Dallas Fire Station No. 3 personnel, etc. The lying tandem simply LIED. Why? is the $64,000 question...
Indications are that RoyTruly gave his best estimate relative to timing of events, and the after a recap of thought, he adjusted his estimates. Nothing unusual.
On the contrary, no lie-detector machine could survive an encounter with Roy "Tall tales" Truly...as he continues to shift his testimony repeatedly. There's times in his testimony when it's apparent he couldn't tell you the day of the week, without WC counsel steering his response one way or another. Nap time, Roy Truly...
Time and time again, again, the statement of Deputy JohnWiseman indicates him to be at least 5 minutes behind Mr Truly and Officer ML Baker as he and other officers began searching the TSBD.
On the contrary, given John Wiseman's exchange with Marilyn Stizman--more than half a football field away from the front of the building on the knoll, and his subsequent mad dash away from her position over to the TSBD, there is no one who is going to believe she walked faster than someone at a full sprint.
As the photo clearly shows, Marilyn Stizman is in the same frame as Victoria Elizabeth Adams, who took up her position in front of the building between 2 1/2 minutes to no more than three (3) minutes following the last shot. (Moreover, in his testimony, DPD Officer Welcome Barnett puts her out there even sooner, but I'm just sharing conservative figures here to aid Truly's tall-tale to no avail, no matter how much I try to give the weasel the benefit of the doubt. He simply LIED. No one thinks and/or believes Ms. Stizman overtook a charging John "what an adrenaline rush" Wiseman as he raced away from her into a full sprint towards the TSBD, and up those backstairs to find the roof LOCKED.
Repeating, and repeating again, and again, time and time again, and again, will not factualize assertions that are beyond fact.
As in repeating/parroting back the 2nd floor phantom hoax of a lunch room encounter...over, and over, and over, and over, etc. got it.
The only time Marrion Baker told the truth was when he wrote his same day affidavit, telling us precisely where he encountered someone (the stairway), but I understand if for some people in denial that equates into a lunchroom 30' clear across the floor all the way away from the stairway.
Where was that encounter--void of a hastily contrived next day script concocted to FRAME an innocent party, Marrion Baker? ----->The Stairway
How large was the man you truly encountered, Marrion Baker? ----->
165lbs ....
as oppose to this MUCH lighter individual ----->
Lee Harvey Oswald was Framed.
Now, How was that again, Roy? ----->
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Care to elaborate further, Roy, especially upon -----> It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
So you are accusing me of "parroting"?
The reliable evidence indicates that ML Baker and RS Truly, at about 12:31pm/12:32pm CST on 11/22/'63 encountered LeeOswald on the 2nd floor of the TSBD Building at the lunchroom. It is not "a hoax".
You present pictures of the sidewalk area near the entrance of the TSBD at Elm St and Houston St as timing evidence, but then refer to the Hertz Sign clock on the roof for evidence? So does that mean that you can produce a picture of the entire roof area? At 12:39pm/12:40pm CST? On 11/22/'63? After RS Truly and ML Baker left the 2nd floor lunchroom at/or after 12:33pm CST, what time did they reach 7th floor? What time did they reach the roof area? What does that have to do with the time of the pictures at the Elm St at Houston St sidewalk? What is the time of those pictures? Where in his testimony, does Officer WelcomeBarnett confirm the time of said pictures?
After JohnWiseman heard the shots fired, and went by foot across Houston St, and then across "the park" to Elm St, where "he observed a motorcycle patrolman having trouble with his vehicle" ( BobbyHargis), then spoke with a gentleman "on the ground", and then spoke with MarilynSitzman about the shots fired, he then went to and entered the TSBD, fka the Sexton Building. So, at what time did JohnWiseman enter the TSBD, where he asked about the number of doors to the building? At what time did he leave the building to seek "other officers" to assist in searching the building? At what time did Mr Wiseman re-enter the TSBD with additional officers? How much time was spent searching each floor? What time did he reach the 7th floor? At what time did he observe the "locked on the inside with a hook latch" roof access door in the ceiling?
As previously acknowledged, those of us that can actually recall 11/22/'63, should, and likely most do, recall the ambiguity of the early reports of shots being fired at the JFKSr Motorcade in Dallas, TX, at/or about 12:30pm CST. And, as well, recall the quite apparent chaos that ensued with said reports. A real life event, not a made for TV Movie.
29-01-2018, 08:07 PM (This post was last modified: 29-01-2018, 08:33 PM by Alan Ford.)
Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman had no problem completing his narrative, and charging up those backstairs before Marilyn Stizman shows up minutes later in front of the building as depicted by photographic evidence, and the confirming timeline of Victoria Elizabeth Adams and Officer Barnett's movements & observations that afternoon. Marilyn Stizman's new position--way over from where she initially encounters him--confirms Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman is already charging up those backstairs.
Just this once, I'm going to share a single photo of several I've archived on hand depicting the roof, and the BIG Hertz sign's digital clock (but will hold the others in reserve for now).
Lest we forget, aside from Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman-- a total of at least three (3) different other individuals found the roof inaccessible in the same time sequence as the laying tandem of Roy Truly and Marrion Baker claim to have teleported themselves through an otherwise LOCKED roof. Akin to the other photos on hand, I'll reserve their names and common experience for now shared by Dallas Deputy-Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman.
Roy Truly and Marrion Baker tell us respectively that they spent, quote, over 5 minutes upon the roof (their words, not mine). Later within his own testimony Baker even goes as far as to say not a second more than 9:59 minutes/secs; and Roy Truly, in order to shore up yet another lie puts the time even further along ---->
Mr. Ball.
You have no exact memory as to the time you discovered he was not there? Mr. Truly. No, sir; I didn't believe after thinking things over--it was over in 15 or 20 minutes after the shots were fired, but after retracing my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, I would have to say that it was farther along in the day than I had believed, so it could have been I or 1:05 or something like that
Since Roy Truly likes to lie so much, we'll just say--in fairness to his next lie--the time delay and back (his own words) equates now into 12:48PM, which gives him the window he needs to fit his lie about not noticing the wrongly accused until a few minutes before 1 o'clock to accommodate his Dave Ball induced timeline to call the warehouse, get the wrongly accused's info, wander over to Chief Lumpkin, wait for the elevator to go up and share the frame up, err, newly concocted timeline, yada, yada, yada.
Before we share the photo of the roof and the time displayed upon the BIG Hertz sign digital clock, please bear in mind what the tandem said they did while up on an otherwise LOCKED roof...
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.
now Marrion Baker ----->
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me, we might be able to hear a little bit better. Would you tell us what else you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I finished going all around this building here and then I came to this sign and I looked up there to see if I could find anybody hiding up there and I started up these steps, it is a ladder there on that sign, and I got on, say, 10 feet up there and I came back down, I seen that nobody would shoot from up there. He wouldn't have no place to hold on.
Mr. BELIN - By that you are referring to climbing the ladder to climb up the sign, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; this large Hertz sign here.
Most telling ---->
Mr. BELIN - In this time sequence you mentioned you were on the roof more than 5 minutes, that could be 25 or 30 or 10 or 15 or what?
Mr. BAKER - This, to my recollection, it seemed like I shouldn't have stayed up there over 10 minutes anyway, if that long.
So, even at 9:59:59 secs, even IF the lying tandem had waved a magic wand to teleport themselves though an otherwise LOCKED roof, given Baker's above statement, they would have still been up there with enough time to clearly demonstrate their claimed actions up to at the very least 12:44PM (a conservative figure), and as MUCH as 12:48PM (see Roy Truly's refined lie above).
When we factor in their bogus claims about 90 seconds to the lunchroom, plus an additional 30 secs spent in the same to engage the wrongly accused…then retrace their steps back across the floor to resume the tale end of their invisible 3 ½ minute ascent to the otherwise LOCKED roof, these men couldn't have gotten to the LOCKED roof, let alone atop it by 12:37PM (go ahead, please, add five minutes to that time, let alone adding, quote, over 5 minutes.
Note the clock on the Hertz sign atop the roof reads 12:40PM, yet no signs of Baker & Truly looking out over Dealey Plaza as they claim ----->
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.
and, for good measure before I ask an obvious question or two ---->
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me, we might be able to hear a little bit better. Would you tell us what else you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I finished going all around this building here and then I came to this sign and I looked up there to see if I could find anybody hiding up there and I started up these steps, it is a ladder there on that sign, and I got on, say, 10 feet up there and I came back down, I seen that nobody would shoot from up there. He wouldn't have no place to hold on.
Mr. BELIN - By that you are referring to climbing the ladder to climb up the sign, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; this large Hertz sign here.
Does anyone see Roy Truly doing what he claimed to be doing?, standing upon a toehole and looking down at the spectators...
Does anyone see Marrion Baker doing what he claimed to be doing? standing upon a toehole and looking down at the spectators...let alone climbing up a ladder void of any spectators below gawking and/or gasping, etc.
Well, what if they were already off the roof by then? Well, that doesn't bode well for the liars either, because either they are on the roof in the time sequence they shared, or they are liars just the same. Doesn't matter how or when Roy "I sink more than a few hole-in-ones whenever I golf alone" Truly says it. a lie coming from a liar is still a lie.
Moreover, you can bet your last dollar IF they or anyone else for that matter was really on the roof (given the nature of the shocking development that just happened and the essence of human nature) the spectators below would be frantically extending their arms and pointing their fingers towards the roof, even if to yell attention to the two figures IF they were really there.
In the photo shared, in the same time sequence these men--given Roy Truly's quote, time and delay, Is even one spectator even remotely concerned at all with any activity upon the roof of the TSBD?
What was Roy Truly really doing that afternoon over in the sniper's nest ----->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Say again ----> Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Alan Ford Wrote:Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman had no problem completing his narrative, and charging up those backstairs before Marilyn Stizman shows up minutes later in front of the building as depicted by photographic evidence, and the confirming timeline of Victoria Elizabeth Adams and Officer Barnett's movements & observations that afternoon. Marilyn Stizman's new position--way over from where she initially encounters him--confirms Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman is already charging up those backstairs.
Just this once, I'm going to share a single photo of several I've archived on hand depicting the roof, and the BIG Hertz sign's digital clock (but will hold the others in reserve for now).
Lest we forget, aside from Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman-- a total of at least three (3) different other individuals found the roof inaccessible in the same time sequence as the laying tandem of Roy Truly and Marrion Baker claim to have teleported themselves through an otherwise LOCKED roof. Akin to the other photos on hand, I'll reserve their names and common experience for now shared by Dallas Deputy-Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" Wiseman.
Roy Truly and Marrion Baker tell us respectively that they spent, quote, over 5 minutes upon the roof (their words, not mine). Later within his own testimony Baker even goes as far as to say not a second more than 9:59 minutes/secs; and Roy Truly, in order to shore up yet another lie puts the time even further along ---->
Mr. Ball.
You have no exact memory as to the time you discovered he was not there? Mr. Truly. No, sir; I didn't believe after thinking things over--it was over in 15 or 20 minutes after the shots were fired, but after retracing my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, I would have to say that it was farther along in the day than I had believed, so it could have been I or 1:05 or something like that
Since Roy Truly likes to lie so much, we'll just say--in fairness to his next lie--the time delay and back (his own words) equates now into 12:48PM, which gives him the window he needs to fit his lie about not noticing the wrongly accused until a few minutes before 1 o'clock to accommodate his Dave Ball induced timeline to call the warehouse, get the wrongly accused's info, wander over to Chief Lumpkin, wait for the elevator to go up and share the frame up, err, newly concocted timeline, yada, yada, yada.
Before we share the photo of the roof and the time displayed upon the BIG Hertz sign digital clock, please bear in mind what the tandem said they did while up on an otherwise LOCKED roof...
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.
now Marrion Baker ----->
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me, we might be able to hear a little bit better. Would you tell us what else you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I finished going all around this building here and then I came to this sign and I looked up there to see if I could find anybody hiding up there and I started up these steps, it is a ladder there on that sign, and I got on, say, 10 feet up there and I came back down, I seen that nobody would shoot from up there. He wouldn't have no place to hold on.
Mr. BELIN - By that you are referring to climbing the ladder to climb up the sign, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; this large Hertz sign here.
Most telling ---->
Mr. BELIN - In this time sequence you mentioned you were on the roof more than 5 minutes, that could be 25 or 30 or 10 or 15 or what?
Mr. BAKER - This, to my recollection, it seemed like I shouldn't have stayed up there over 10 minutes anyway, if that long.
So, even at 9:59:59 secs, even IF the lying tandem had waved a magic wand to teleport themselves though an otherwise LOCKED roof, given Baker's above statement, they would have still been up there with enough time to clearly demonstrate their claimed actions up to at the very least 12:44PM (a conservative figure), and as MUCH as 12:48PM (see Roy Truly's refined lie above).
When we factor in their bogus claims about 90 seconds to the lunchroom, plus an additional 30 secs spent in the same to engage the wrongly accused…then retrace their steps back across the floor to resume the tale end of their invisible 3 ½ minute ascent to the otherwise LOCKED roof, these men couldn't have gotten to the LOCKED roof, let alone atop it by 12:37PM (go ahead, please, add five minutes to that time, let alone adding, quote, over 5 minutes.
Note the clock on the Hertz sign atop the roof reads 12:40PM, yet no signs of Baker & Truly looking out over Dealey Plaza as they claim ----->
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.
and, for good measure before I ask an obvious question or two ---->
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me, we might be able to hear a little bit better. Would you tell us what else you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I finished going all around this building here and then I came to this sign and I looked up there to see if I could find anybody hiding up there and I started up these steps, it is a ladder there on that sign, and I got on, say, 10 feet up there and I came back down, I seen that nobody would shoot from up there. He wouldn't have no place to hold on.
Mr. BELIN - By that you are referring to climbing the ladder to climb up the sign, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; this large Hertz sign here.
Does anyone see Roy Truly doing what he claimed to be doing?, standing upon a toehole and looking down at the spectators...
Does anyone see Marrion Baker doing what he claimed to be doing? standing upon a toehole and looking down at the spectators...let alone climbing up a ladder void of any spectators below gawking and/or gasping, etc.
Well, what if they were already off the roof by then? Well, that doesn't bode well for the liars either, because either they are on the roof in the time sequence they shared, or they are liars just the same. Doesn't matter how or when Roy "I sink more than a few hole-in-ones whenever I golf alone" Truly says it. a lie coming from a liar is still a lie.
Moreover, you can bet your last dollar IF they or anyone else for that matter was really on the roof (given the nature of the shocking development that just happened and the essence of human nature) the spectators below would be frantically extending their arms and pointing their fingers towards the roof, even if to yell attention to the two figures IF they were really there.
In the photo shared, in the same time sequence these men--given Roy Truly's quote, time and delay, Is even one spectator even remotely concerned at all with any activity upon the roof of the TSBD?
What was Roy Truly really doing that afternoon over in the sniper's nest ----->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Say again ----> Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Again, DCS Deputy JohnWiseman's own testimony places him at least 5 minutes behind TSBD BuildingSuperintendent RoyTruly and DPD Officer MarrionBaker when he began his floor by floor search of the TSBD
In the event that BuildingSuperintendent Truly and Officer Baker had reached the roof area by 12:40pm, CST, which I doubt and tend to believe they arrived some minutes later, that does not itself mean that they were in camera view at the time of the photograph. And accordingly, after a recap, Mr Truly estimated that after leaving the roof area onto the 7th floor, he then went to the 6th floor southeast corner window at about 1:00pm/1:05pm, CST.
Instead of pulling timing estimates out of thin air and stating them amid assertions beyond fact, we can read actual statements of those who were there.
30-01-2018, 08:17 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2018, 08:44 PM by Alan Ford.)
Mr. Trotter,
*Even IF the following were true (it isn't, because Marilyn Stizman's new position in the time she took it was far behind a racing lawman well ahead of her movements) ---->
Again, DCS Deputy JohnWiseman's own testimony places him at least 5 minutes behind TSBD BuildingSuperintendent RoyTruly and DPD Officer MarrionBaker when he began his floor by floor search of the TSBD
*Q: How could one individual, let alone two individuals claiming to be upon the roof, engaged in professed activities like climbing a HUGH bright structure, and standing upon a toehold, looking at spectators below go unnoticed?!
A: The answer to why not a single spectator below (not even one) in the photo shared, is frantically extending their arms pointing their fingers upward, nor YELLING out the lying tandem's position is because there was no reason to. The weasels simply LIED about being atop an otherwise LOCKED roof.
and, most telling--as I anticipated your response--How do you account for Roy Truly's exchange here---->
Mr. Ball.
You have no exact memory as to the time you discovered he was not there? Mr. Truly. No, sir; I didn't believe after thinking things over--it was over in 15 or 20 minutes after the shots were fired, but after retracing my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, I would have to say that it was farther along in the day than I had believed, so it could have been I or 1:05 or something like that
Even IF we pretend Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" moved at the pace of a turtle, surly he would have eventually made it up those backstairs before a newly revised lie by yours TRULY, quote, my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, fully elapsed...
No matter which lie liar Roy Truly goes with, a lie is still a lie.
Which lie is it, Roy Truly?,
An extended stay on the roof to fit Dave Ball's leading the witness to a desired outcome?,
Or, a gross mistake on your part never knowing the roof tale would ever be called into question by not just Sheriff Wiseman (John), but also three other different individuals right on your lying heels that afternoon, who also found the roof inaccessible?! Those four (4) aforementioned individuals who found the roof inaccessible does not even include Dallas Fire Department personnel from Fire Station No. 3, and what they also encountered at 1:33PM that afternoon.
Too late to retract that, quote, "Over 5 minutes" upon the roof eh?, let alone Dave Ball's widening of the goal-post even further.
[FONT=&]O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive! --Sir Walter Scott[/FONT]
Try as I might, I still cannot see the lying tandem performing any of the multiple activities they said they were engaged in upon an otherwise LOCKED roof ----> Peek-a-boo, Roy Truly?
Note the digital-clock reading on the Hertz sign atop the roof, yet no signs of Baker & Truly looking out over Dealey Plaza as they claim ----->
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.
and, now Marrion's turn ---->
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me, we might be able to hear a little bit better[B]. Would you tell us what else you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I finished [B]going all around this building here and then I came to this sign and I looked up there to see if I could find anybody hiding up there and I started up these steps, it is a ladder there on that sign, and I got on, say, 10 feet up there and I came back down, I seen that nobody would shoot from up there. He wouldn't have no place to hold on.
Mr. BELIN - By that you are referring to climbing the ladder to climb up the sign, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; this large Hertz sign here.[/B][/B]
Two liars pretending all over again (guess the 2nd floor phantom lunchroom encounter hoax needed topping, pun intended, atop an otherwise LOCKED roof).
Far cry, Marrion Baker, from your honest to goodness actual encounter on the stairway eh mate? Surely you understand the major difference between the stairway and a lunchroom clear across the floor some 30' feet away from the stairway...
And, you, Roy Truly, Freudian slip? ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Even LBJ and JEH, some six days after the assassination, place the wrongly accused at the front entrance of the building on the first floor when legitimately encountered by police, but a hastily contrived script concocted to FRAME an innocent party reared its sinister head, starring a lying trio (Mrs. Reid, Roy Truly & Marrion Baker).
Say again ----> Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
*Even IF the following were true (it isn't, because Marilyn Stizman's new position in the time she took it was far behind a racing lawman well ahead of her movements) ---->
Again, DCS Deputy JohnWiseman's own testimony places him at least 5 minutes behind TSBD BuildingSuperintendent RoyTruly and DPD Officer MarrionBaker when he began his floor by floor search of the TSBD. LR Trotter:
Countless times I have posted links to actual testimony/statements as evidence of the validity of my comments, where Mr Ford seems to pick and choose. And here, he states that my statement is not true? When he indicates a time of MarilynSitzman's "new position" that has not been reliably verified? And, he who constantly claims he is right because he claims now deceased eyewitnesses and/or law officers are "liars"?
31-01-2018, 12:04 AM (This post was last modified: 31-01-2018, 06:54 PM by LR Trotter.)
AlanFord:
[quote=Alan Ford]Mr. Trotter,
*Q: How could one individual, let alone two individuals claiming to be upon the roof, engaged in professed activities like climbing a HUGH bright structure, and standing upon a toehold, looking at spectators below go unnoticed?!
A: The answer to why not a single spectator below (not even one) in the photo shared, is frantically extending their arms pointing their fingers upward, nor YELLING out the lying tandem's position is because there was no reason to. The weasels simply LIED about being atop an otherwise LOCKED roof.
and, most telling--as I anticipated your response--How do you account for Roy Truly's exchange here---->
Mr. Ball.
You have no exact memory as to the time you discovered he was not there? Mr. Truly. No, sir; I didn't believe after thinking things over--it was over in 15 or 20 minutes after the shots were fired, but after retracing my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, I would have to say that it was farther along in the day than I had believed, so it could have been I or 1:05 or something like that
Even IF we pretend Dallas Deputy Sheriff John "An Honest To Goodness Lawman" moved at the pace of a turtle, surly he would have eventually made it up those backstairs before a newly revised lie by yours TRULY, quote, my trip to the roof and the time delay and back, fully elapsed...
No matter which lie liar Roy Truly goes with, a lie is still a lie.
LR Trotter: [size=12]Mr Ford is using a ground level photograph of the TSBD roof area, with the indicated time on the HertzSign clock being 12:40pm, as his evidence that TSBD BuildingSuperintendent RoyTruly and DPD Officer MarrionBaker did not go to the roof. He also continues to reference a "locked roof"that apparently may have caused the roof area to be inaccessable. In all likelihood, Mr Truly and Officer Baker arrived on the roof slightly later than the 12:40 time of said photo, and they also could have been out of sight of the camera at 12:40pm, if by chance already there. But, the reference to a "locked from the inside door" to the roof, is actually indicated by testimony to be an access door from the 7th floor, that is actually latched by a hook latch from the 7th floor ceiling area.
What is in need of accounting for in BuildingSuperintendent Truly's statement? The discussion seems to be regarding the estimated time that it appeared as though TSBD Employee LeeOswald was missing. He gave an estimate, and after a recap, revised the timing estimate. But again, Mr Ford has "decided" that now deceased RoyTruly is a "liar".
If the referenced "Dallas Deputy Sheriff John 'An Honest To Goodness Lawman'"is actually DCS Deputy JohnWiseman, it is not his "pace", but his actual TSBD building search start time that eliminates him being "on the heels" of Mr Truly and Officer Baker's building search and 2nd floor encounter with Mr Oswald at the lunchroom.
In any event, additional testimony/statements can be found.
An extended stay on the roof to fit Dave Ball's leading the witness to a desired outcome?,
Or, a gross mistake on your part never knowing the roof tale would ever be called into question by not just Sheriff Wiseman (John), but also three other different individuals right on your lying heels that afternoon, who also found the roof inaccessible?! Those four (4) aforementioned individuals who found the roof inaccessible does not even include Dallas Fire Department personnel from Fire Station No. 3, and what they also encountered at 1:33PM that afternoon.
Too late to retract that, quote, "Over 5 minutes" upon the roof eh?, let alone Dave Ball's widening of the goal-post even further.
[FONT=&]O, what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive! --Sir Walter Scott[/FONT]
Try as I might, I still cannot see the lying tandem performing any of the multiple activities they said they were engaged in upon an otherwise LOCKED roof ----> Peek-a-boo, Roy Truly?
Note the digital-clock reading on the Hertz sign atop the roof, yet no signs of Baker & Truly looking out over Dealey Plaza as they claim ----->
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down.
and, now Marrion's turn ---->
Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, when you talk, I wonder if you would look at me, we might be able to hear a little bit better[B]. Would you tell us what else you did?
Mr. BAKER - As I finished [B]going all around this building here and then I came to this sign and I looked up there to see if I could find anybody hiding up there and I started up these steps, it is a ladder there on that sign, and I got on, say, 10 feet up there and I came back down, I seen that nobody would shoot from up there. He wouldn't have no place to hold on.
Mr. BELIN - By that you are referring to climbing the ladder to climb up the sign, is that correct?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; this large Hertz sign here.[/B][/B]
Two liars pretending all over again (guess the 2nd floor phantom lunchroom encounter hoax needed topping, pun intended, atop an otherwise LOCKED roof).
Far cry, Marrion Baker, from your honest to goodness actual encounter on the stairway eh mate? Surely you understand the major difference between the stairway and a lunchroom clear across the floor some 30' feet away from the stairway...
And, you, Roy Truly, Freudian slip? ---->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Even LBJ and JEH, some six days after the assassination, place the wrongly accused at the front entrance of the building on the first floor when legitimately encountered by police, but a hastily contrived script concocted to FRAME an innocent party reared its sinister head, starring a lying trio (Mrs. Reid, Roy Truly & Marrion Baker).
Say again ----> Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Again, Mr Ford has indicated that he believes that any statement/testimony by the now deceased TSBD BuildingSuperintendent RoyTruly is a "lie". And, the enclosed picture of the HertzSign on the TSBD roof above the 7th floor indicates a time of 12:40pm, nothing more. And, quite likely, Mr Truly and DPD Officer MarrionBaker have not yet arrived to the roof. And, I have yet to see any provable indication that the TSBD roof was "inaccessible" from the 7th floor. Also, I have not seen any provable indication of incorrect timing of Mr Truly's and Mr Baker's stated activities while on the roof.
I am not sure about the indicated connection between when Mr Truly came back to the 6th floor southeast corner, and when he and Officer Baker encountered LeeOswald on the 2nd floor at the lunchroom earlier. In any event, whether 30 feet, 10 yards, 360 inches, or ten seconds, that to me is not a great distance, if that is the actual distance from the lunchroom to the stairway.
On the move, with Dallas Deputy Sheriff John Wiseman (I've taken the liberty of inserting time/timing elements for each stage of his actions. They aren't slanted to favor an outcome as much as produce a reasonable element of time given his words & actions until he reaches the LOCKED roof. For now, let's just take his full statement in its entirety ---->
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Name of Compainant
Assassination Of President Kennedy
Offense
John Wiseman, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date Nov 23, 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas when the President passed and the car went around the corner and a few more cars had passed when I heard a shot and I knew something had happened. I ran at once to the corner of Houston and Main Street and out into the street when the second and third shots ran out. I ran on across Houston Street, then across the park to where a policeman was having trouble with his motorcycle and I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building. I talked to Marilyn Sitzman, 202 S. Lancaster who said her boss, Abraham Zaprutes, RI 8 6071, had movies of the shooting. She said the shots came from that way and she pointed at the old Sexton Building. I ran at once to the Sexton Building and went in. I askes some woman how many doors lead out of the building and she said 4. I left the building and found some DPD patrolmen and we came back to the building. I ran up the stairs and the patrolman started trying to get more help to search the building. I went up the stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that the door to the roof was locked on the inside with a gate type hook latch. I stopped and started back down the stairs taking a quick look on each floor. I met more officers on the 2nd floor and then in a few minutes the place had maybe 50 officers in it. A better search was started floor by floor. About the time we got started on the 5th floor, Deputy Sheriff Luke Mooney found some spent hulls. An officer of the Dallas Police Department told us all to get on one side of the room and make one clean sweep of the entire floor to see if we could find the rifle. As we worked our way across the room which was filled with boxes, we got to the front stairway when Deputy Sheriff Eugene Boon said, "here is the gun". It was about 4 feet in front of me in the aisle in which I was working. Deputy Boone stayed at one end of the aisle where the gun was spotted and I stayed at the other end of the aisle so that nothing would be touched. Officer Day of the DPD Crime Lab came and took pictures of the gun in its hiding spot behind the boxes and then moved it from this spot. I then left the building and came back to the Sheriff's Office to talk with witnesses. A Mrs. Mary Moorman was in the office with a picture of the President getting shot.
Okay, now I'll share his statement while also interjecting time elements to demonstrate that he found the LOCKED roof locked way before the lying tandem could have ever come down from it, IF they were really upon it in the first place. Whether they stayed, quote, "Over 5 minutes", or even longer amid Roy Truly's revised lie about an extended stay, quote, "time delay and back", the honest Dallas Deputy-Sheriff should not have found the roof LOCKED IF they really were up there.
On the move, with Dallas Deputy Sheriff John Wiseman. Let's begin ---->
COUNTY OF DALLAS
SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT
SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT
Name of Compainant
Assassination Of President Kennedy
Offense
John Wiseman, Deputy Sheriff, Dallas County Sheriff's Department.
Date Nov 23, 1963
I was standing in front of the Sheriff's Office at 505 Main Street, Dallas when the President passed and the car went around the corner and a few more cars had passed when I heard a shot and I knew something had happened. I ran at once to the corner of Houston and Main Street and out into the street when the second and third shots ran out.
So, far no more than 10 seconds have elapsed, and at this point in time even Marrion Bakerper his own testimonyis still riding his motorcycle on Houston about 60 feet shy of the corner of Houston & Elm.
I ran on across Houston Street, then across the park to where a policeman was having trouble with his motorcycle and I saw a man laying on the grass. This man laying on the grass said the shots came from the building and he was pointing to the old Sexton Building.
At this point, a racing/sprinting Wiseman (John) has already crossed Elm Street onto the other side of the park, now on the knoll 15-20 yards shy of Marilyn Stizman's position atop the knoll. Marrion Baker--not to be confused w/the motorcycle officer near Mr. Wiseman-- has parked his own motorcycle by now and is on foot, sprinting towards the sidewalk near the TSBD. Though he and Roy Truly claim they went up the entrance stairs and entered the TSBD together, not a single photo-amid all of the camera bulbs flashing that afternoonconfirm this, nor does the testimony of two honest people (Buell Wesley Frazier and Joe Molina) standing at the entrance door, but I'll give the lying tandem a free pass here as we continue along our timeline.
I talked to Marilyn Sitzman, 202 S. Lancaster who said her boss, Abraham Zaprutes, RI 8 6071, had movies of the shooting. She said the shots came from that way and she pointed at the old Sexton Building. I ran at once to the Sexton Building
Taking into account his conversation with Marilyn Stizman in her position in close proximity to the building, he consumes 35-40 seconds. At this point in time, Roy Truly & Marrion Baker, now having made their readjustmentsafter bumping into each other at the swinging door contraption near the entrance areaper their own testimonythe tandem are now at a, quoting Marrion Baker here ---->
Mr. BAKER - We finally backed up and got through that little swinging door there and we kind of all ran, not real fast but, you know, a good trot, to the back of the Building
picking up again w/Mr. Wiseman ---->
and went in. I askes some woman how many doors lead out of the building and she said 4.
After asking either Sandra Styles or Victoria Elizabeth Adams this (take your pick because per Adams' testimony they are the only women in that time sequence to be able to encounter Mr. Wiseman) in that particular position.
I left the building and found some DPD patrolmen… and we came back to the building.
Lucky for Mr. Wiseman, DPD patrolman Welcome Barnett (see his testimony) was near that location in the same time frame. At this point, since he is unaware of what's happening inside the building, Mr. Wiseman does not see the lying tandem calling up for an elevator, nor does he see them abandon their wait for an elevator moments later, and decide to take the stairs instead...spend 30 seconds with the wrongly accused in the lunchroom, or so they say, then retrace their steps back across the floor to the stairs to climb several more floors before hopping the East elevator to the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Floor, then teleporting themselves through an otherwise LOCKED roof (they are lying again but, Oh, well, I'll give them another free pass here as well to make even the Serpent in the Garden of Eden blush).
Now, Returning to Mr. Wiseman
and we came back to the building
then, per his own testimony, DPD's Welcome Barnett shares that he makes the choice to return to the front of the building…
simultaneously , now picking back up w/Mr. Wiseman ---->
I ran up the stairs and the patrolman started trying to get more help to search the building. I went up the stairs to the 7th floor and started up into the attic and noticed that the door to the roof was locked on the inside with a gate type hook latch. I stopped and started back down the stairs taking a quick look on each floor.
We'll end here at the LOCKED roof. Again, whether the lying tandem stayed upon the roof for, quote, "Over 5 minutes, or even longer amid Roy Truly's newly revised lie @ time delay and back, somebody's lying and it is not the wrongly accused (Mr. Lee Oswald).
Now, What did you really do that afternoon, Roy Truly ? ----->
Mr. BELIN. When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
Pleading the 5th?
Mr. TRULY. That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases.
