The Unpleasant Truth About Rudolf Hess

[James Lateer]

My most recent opinion about Hitler is this: Hitler was an Austrian and never stopped thinking like an Austrian. Austria came out just fine from World War II.

James Lateer

[David Guyatt]

I can't cite a source, but didn't Hitler believe until almost the end that Britain and the US would make peace with him and then join him in the war against the Russians? Which might explain why he repeatedly refused to pull back German forces from the Baltic Republics until they were surrounded and forced to surrender by early '45.

I think we can add to this and state that a deal was, in fact, reached. To what extent is still fully unknown. I'll leave Pete to respond more fully.

[David Guyatt]

My most recent opinion about Hitler is this: Hitler was an Austrian and never stopped thinking like an Austrian. Austria came out just fine from World War II.

James Lateer

So did Germany James. Within a couple of decades it was the most prosperous nation in Europe whereas the United Kingdom and Russia, the two other key members of the Allies were still crippled - economically etc.

Where did their sudden "prosperity" come from, circa 1955 and thereafter, when West Germany was allowed by the Four Powers to become a sovereign state again?

Besides that, up to 40,000 of the very worst Nazis "escaped" (sic) - a better description would be "ushered to freedom" or "permitted to flee" imo - to safety, principally in Latin America but elsewhere too. Post WWII Argentina became a de facto Nazi enclave with Bormann, Hitler and countless others living a life of luxury there. Bormann, for example, lived the hogs life in a suite in one of the most luxurious hotels in Buenos Aires. Hitler, meanwhile, although having to move around from time, similarly enjoyed prosperity and likewise lived in another German owned hotel. Deservedly, if the evidence that has now emerged stands up - I believe it probably does - he died a lonely and neglected old man. His wife, Eva Braun (Hitler) left him with their two daughters and thereafter lived the high life in Buenos Aires. Bormann dropped him and took sole control of the humungous Nazi fortune - including its massive plunder.

And so it goes.

[James Lateer]

I agree that in many ways the situation of Germany was improved after WWII compared to before. But in my opinion, the Nazis won World War II, Austria came out a little better off but Germany as a country lost World War II badly.

We know that because of the War, Germany was able to get a reboot in the form of the EEU which they dominate. In some ways, this was The Fourth Reich.

But Germany as a nation was dealt a partial death-blow from World War II. Prussia had been the actual state that had unified Germany between the 1780's and 1945. Before World War II, Prussia represented over half of the territory of Germany and had its own government which was in some ways, still a sovereign state in itself. The people who ran the Prussian Government in effect ran Germany due to the structure of their federalism.

The Prussian General Staff had pretty much run Continental Europe from Waterloo right up to 1945. The Prussian Junkers were the dominant conservative group who pretty much ran Prussia. They were the counterparts of the Southern Plantation owners in the US South before the Civil War. They treated the Catholics (and everybody else) like dirt.

As a result of the War, the Eastern provinces of Prussia were totally chopped off and the inhabitants became refugees and mostly relocated to Schleswig-Holstein in Western Germany. Also, almost the entire remainder of Prussia was included in the Russian Zone of Occupation. So even if Germany rebuilt after the War, Prussia and the people who ran it before the War were pretty much toast.

Although Prussia (and Germany) were 70% Protestant and in pre-War Germany, Catholics were almost entirely excluded from the command of the military and the civil service, after the War, West Germany became Catholic dominated (about 48% Catholic). Adenauer ran the country for the benefit of Catholic interests. Adenauer was the former Mayor of Cologne. That city was known as the "loyal daughter of the Catholic Church" at least from the 1300's.

Adenauer limited the EEU to include Catholic West Germany, Catholic France and Catholic Italy. He refused admission to England, Denmark, Sweden, Norway or any other major Protestant country. Adenauer despised Prussians and so Prussia was totally destroyed, mainly by collaboration of Adenauer, the US Occupation and John J. McCloy who served as US German High Commissioner and, of course, with the help of Stalin and the Soviets.

All this came to an end with the assassination of JFK. JFK had apparently had been toying with the idea of unifying, demilitarizing and neutralizing at least the central part of Gemany under the Rapacki Plan. This would have broken up Adenauer's "Black (Catholic) Front" which included only West Germany, Italy and France. Adenauer's villa where he mostly lived (and was the seat of the West German Government while he was there) was on Lake Como or Lake Maggiore in Italy.

The successor of Adenauer was Ludwig Erhard, a Protestant with a Catholic father. Where the Adenauer people viewed the Social Democrats as atheist, secular and anti-clericial, soon after the retirement of Adenauer, a coalition government was formed between the CDU and the Socialist SPD. And the EEU was expanded to include the UK and Protestant Countries.

Of course, Prussia was long dead and gone. And the rest of Europe was probably very glad about that. I haven't kept up-to-date on the situation in Germany from 1964 to date. I do know that Angela Merkel was raised in Communist East Germany and her father ran a Lutheran Seminary there whereby he earned his living. How could you have a Lutheran for-profit Seminary in Communist East Germany? Another huge lie that we were told, that Communism banned religion.

So in my way of thinking, you had the Hitler-Adenauer era from 1933 to 1963 when the Catholics were the clear top-dogs in Germany and Prussia was obliterated.

I would agree that the Nazis apparently went right on truckin' after World War II. If you read "My Life in Peace And War" by Nazi Stuka Pilot Hans-Ulrich Rudel, you realize that at least people like Rudel grew to truly love Argentina (and if you saw the recent movie Operation Finale) they apparently (in some ways) "had it made" in Argentina. They surely were not suffering in Argentina, although some like Martin Bormann were forced to live on estates on the fringe of the jungle, which was likely a come-down from Munich or Berlin. (Must have been a lot more mosquitos).

Apparently, JFK was "playing with fire" when he was messing around with German issues, Nazis and German re-unification. Of course, that is why Nazi-collaboraters like John J. McCloy and Allen Dulles were able to entirely run the Warren Commission. JFK had been messing with "their baby".

James Lateer

[David Guyatt]

I think there is an argument to be made that Nazi Germany won the WWII as you say - at least in one sense, although not militarily at the time - although it has been said many times that if the war went on for a further six months Germany would've won militarily too due to the stream of advanced weapon systems in the pipeline. Is this true though? Maybe. Even probably. In any event it seems likely that an "understanding" of sorts was reached regarding weapon technology transfers to the US in exchange for freedom.

And yep, Germany dominates the EU today I agree.

After the war Latin America became their new home where they not only prospered but were apparently able to carry on with vital military weapon R & D. And, as they used to say in olden days: "there be dragons".

In regard to Bormann, I don't know if you've seen the video interview of Commissioner Collotto by Laurence de Mello and filmed shortly before his death and with the proviso that it not be made public until he was dead. Collotto was the Aide de Camp for Peron and acted as Peron's intermediary to collect the weekly payoff from Bormann at the Plaza Hotel in Buenos Aires.

The interview has been cut quite often as clearly, I think, there are things said that de Mello didn't want included at that time.

In case you haven't seen it, it's below.

[Lauren Johnson]

In case you haven't seen it, it's below.

I was only able to watch the video on the YouTube site itself.

[James Lateer]

Very interesting question: If Hitler had the "new weapons" well before WWII, could he have won the War? The following bullet points will answer that IMHO:

1. The first one is the jet plane. The US and the UK had air supremacy over Germany and Japan, yet the US Strategic Bombing Survey after the War found that the strategic bombing of Germany was ineffective. Would the jet plane have changed anything?

2. They found that if the US and the UK had targeted only transportation and fuel, then the strategic bombing would have worked.

3. The US and the UK did not target fuel and transportation because they wanted to keep Hitler in the War until Hitler and Stalin had ripped each other's guts out.

4. The Italian Campaign in WWII was only carried out to keep Stalin from seizing the Vatican. We lost 2/3 of our WWII casualties in the Italian campaign. Despite that, Stalin came very close to occupation of part of Italy. Only Allen Dulles and Lyman Lemnitzer stood in his way with the "separate peace" behind the back of Roosevelt.

5. If Hitler had jet planes, then maybe he could have gotten air supremacy over the UK. But the US would have had their own jet planes to send to Europe within a year to cancel that out. And air supremacy alone would not have won the war.

6. The atomic bomb would have been the only guaranteed war-winner. But Germany didn't have the deserts of New Mexico to build and test the bomb, nor the access to uranium and other resources. The US and the USSR both had unlimited natural resources and wilderness areas. The UK had this by way of Canada. But Germany did not.

7. Hitler only thought about "terror weapons" like the V-2 and the Intercontinental Bomber (i.e. the B-29) That's because Hitler's goal was never to be a winner. He only wanted to take down more Jews and Bolsheviks than Germans. His mentality was basically that of a Kamikaze. I guess you could say that Hitler was a terrorist at heart.

8. Hitler was an atheist but also a "cultural Catholic". Thus he viewed that spreading the Catholic concept of absolute heirarchy was an end in itself, although he apparently never believed in God. Obviously if he had believed in God then the Holocaust would have put him in major trouble with God. That's a no-brainer.

9. I guess you have to conclude that Hitler's concept of World War II was that of a Civil War between Germans and Jews over the control of Europe. I don't think there is any other paradigm that explains Hitler's WWII strategy. Hitler must have seen Bolshevism (like many others did) as being mostly a Jewish phenomenon.

10. Hitler always thought that in the end, the US and the UK would turn their coats, and side with him against Bolshevism. That actually happened, but AFTER the War, not during the War.

11. The Nuremberg Trials served basically the same function as a Peace Treaty Negotiations as in Versailles in 1919. It was an Nuremberg where the Germans were forced to admit guilt in starting the War just as they had done at Versailles. It was a public relations event and any Nazi who had any brains was able to escape the clutches of the Nuremberg apparatus.

12. If Stalin had seized the Vatican, imagine how bad the result would be. If you consider Vietnam to be a crusade to save that country for the benefit of the Catholic clergy there, then imagine the WHOLE WORLD AS VIETNAM!!! For one thing, there would have been a rain of A-Bombs. And that would have been just the beginning.

So all of the basic tenets of World War II, such as the rationale for the bombing of Germany and the rationale for the Italian Campaign were built on fabrications. Therefore, it is hard to apply logic or rational thought to the question of whether Hitler (had he waited) could have used his weapons to win the War.

James Lateer

[Peter Lemkin]

Can anyone locate the clearly British interviewer and ask if the uncut tape exists. Some interesting questions were cut out and strangely the countdown between takes were left in....

[David Guyatt]

Can anyone locate the clearly British interviewer and ask if the uncut tape exists. Some interesting questions were cut out and strangely the countdown between takes were left in....

I had already consider contacting Laurence de Mello awhile ago Pete, but in the end decided not to. I suspect she had commercial reasons to hold some of that material back - after all this clip was made available for free and she is a film maker after all: Goldeneye Publishing (HERE). Besides this I am not at all convinced by some of her other material she promotes. For example the Mountbatten Report (HERE) and the even stranger Christopher Robin ego, both of which featured the late John Ainsworth-Davis. It is one of the most bizarre books on Bormann I've ever read. For me this is a British intelligence hoax, deflect to discredit other authors who were ever getting closer to the truth about Bormann.

Like the other guy we've been discussing re Ortdruf, she lives in buenos Aires too.

[David Guyatt]

James, if you haven't already read it, may I draw your attention to Carter Hydricks's book Critical Mass the Real Story of the Birth of the Atom Bomb concerning the mystery of the U boat U-234. There is good reason to suppose that, to some extent anyway, material was exchanged with the US to allow their atom bomb project to progress, in exchange for other considerations.

I also hold the view that the end of the war in Europe has a great many intricacies to it. Little is what it seems to be and secrecy surrounds it even today.

The following Harpers article of October 1944 is of interest in covering just some of the abilities of Germany during WWII

https://nonstopsystems.com/radio/pdf-hel...ecrets.pdf

Little wonder, then, that today Army Air Force experts declare publicly that in rocket power and guided missiles the Nazis were ahead of us by at least ten years.

All such revelations naturally raise the question: was Germany so far advanced in air, rocket, and missile research that, given a little more time, she might have won the war? Her war secrets, as now disclosed, would seem to indicate that possibility. And the Deputy Commanding General of Army Air Forces Intelligence, Air Technical Service Command, has told the Society of Aeronautical Engineers within the past few months:The Germans were preparing rocket surprises for the whole world in general and England in particular which would have, it is believed, changed the course of the war if the invasion had been postponed for so short a time as half a year.

"The V2 rocket, which bombed London," an Army Air Force publication reports, "was just a toy compared to what the Germans had up their sleeve."When the war ended, we now know, they had 138 types of guided missiles in various stages of production or development, using every known kind of remote control and fuse: radio, radar, wire, continuous wave, acoustics, infra-red, light beams, and magnetics, to name some; and for power, all methods of jet propulsion for either subsonic or supersonic speeds. Jet propulsion had even been applied to helicopter flight. The fuel was piped to combustion chambers at the rotor blade tips, where it exploded, whirling the blades around like a lawn sprinkler or pinwheel. As for rocket propulsion, their A-4 rocket, which was just getting into large scale production when the war ended, was forty-six feet long, weighed over 24,000 pounds, and traveled 230 miles. It rose sixty miles above the earth and had a maximum speed of 3,735 miles an hour three times that of the earth's rotation at the equator. The secret of its supersonic speed, we know today, lay in its rocket motor which used liquid oxygen and alcohol for fuel. It was either radio controlled or self-guided to its target by gyroscopic means. Since its speed was supersonic, it could not be heard before it struck.
Another German rocket which was coming along was the A-9. This was bigger still 29,000 pounds and had wings which gave it a flying range of 3,000 miles. It was manufactured at the famous Peenemünde army experiment station and achieved the unbelievable speed of 5,870 miles an hour.
A long range rocket-motored bomber which, the war documents indicate, was never completed merely because of the war's quick ending, would have been capable of flight from Germany to New York in forty minutes. Pilot-guided from a pressurized cabin, it would have flown at an altitude of 154 miles. Launching was to be by catapult at 500 miles an hour, and the ship would rise to its maximum altitude in as short a time as four minutes. There, fuel exhausted, it would glide through the outer atmosphere, bearing down on its target. With one hundred bombers of this type the Germans hoped to destroy any city on earth in a few days operations.