Strange Tale - Why The Buildings Must Come Down Meeting

[Peter Lemkin]

http://redlineav.com/tsg.deposition.contd.2.html


The building was bid at $750,M, and cost$1.2B to build. It was worth
about $4. to $5.B at its peak., but, would have cost nearly $15.B to
un-build it in 2010 dollars, or as it neared its 1/2 'safe' life.
Obviously, it was Imploded, because there was never going to be a
'break-even' point for either, the current, or future owners.


I.) Why The World Trade Towers
"Must come down!"




A BRIEF TECHNICAL SUMMARY, WHY:

The structural integrity of the massive World Trade Center Towers was contingent upon the combined -value of *both* the internal, perimeter STEEL columns and the adjoining ALUMINIUM Fascia panels.

Over the years, the process known as 'galvanic corrosion' had structurally degraded these buildings beyond repair. Supporting statements to this effect had been compiled, and were presented by the engineers to the building owners during the time-frame that I have described. Subsequently, both Mayor Giuiliani's Office, and the New York Port Authority, had allegedly received an order for the buildings to be completely dismantled, by 2007."

Through the continual effects of wind-sheer and [flex-fatigue] this process had eroded the bolt-holds at roughly floors #7 through #25, that fulcrum-point where the lateral pressures were inherently sustained. Photographs, taken after the disaster, reveal that it was only those lowest exterior column sectional groupings which do not appear to have shown severe de-coupling of the joinery, therein. This is evidenced by the bright 'shiny,' cage-like forms that served to contain the bulk of the physical contents among a burning rubble.

Physical evidence verifies that incendiary 'explosive' material(s), such as 'thermate,' had come into contact with numerous STEEL structural members throughout the entire structures. This has now been verified by independent research scientists from actual samples that had been collected from the site. Witnessed by their locations within the burning pyre, these supporting columns had fallen from the upper-most portions of the two building core-sections.

A description of my assessment, those of a non-engineer, concerning the chronic construction "flaw(s)" in the World Trade Towers, follows at the end of this document, in section IV. I strongly encourage readers to cross-reference these issues, as recorded in countless independent and government source documents pertaining to the stress -dynamics, and galvanic properties inherent in aluminium alloys.[*see addenda] Furthermore, I was a witness to numerous, "highly suspicious" activities that took place at WTC, building #7, shortly after the structure was erected, and thus concurrent to the events that I have described.








II.) T. S. Gordon's Insider Knowledge




ESTABLISHING EVENTS:

In October , 1988, I moved to NY. C., seeking architectural photography assignments from various architects. Following a brief introduction to Mr. Barry Roth, Jr., AIA, the President of Emery-Roth & Associates, and his partner, (cousin) Mr. Robert Sobel, AIA, I was instructed to photograph "the World Trade Center," in the early Spring of 1989.

Supervising the WTC project at that time, was Mr. Barry Yanku, AIA, and Richard Stob, AIA, who had instructed, and/or accompanied me throughout my employment with the firm. I became aware of these individuals through personal friends of Mr. Yanku, including; Gregory Vargo, of Perkins & Will, NYC., who had befriended my former client, Simon Zalkind, of Denver. Each of whom may serve as my material witnesses.

Widely known in the trade journals, "Ezra Stoller " and "Norman McGrath" had thoroughly photographed the World Trade Center for a period of many years prior. They created some of the finest known images of the towers, the most memorable ones had circulated the world, as book covers and on posters, often featuring the Statue of Liberty in the foreground. 'Why' these famous photographers were released from their contracts, and I was subsequently hired, is beyond my comprehension. Neither party has released a single WTC photograph since!

Before I began any coverage of the site I was required to thoroughly analyze the Original WTC plans and over 5,000 original copywritten photographs. I had asked every available associate in the office a lot of questions which provided me with the information I have covered here. However, during that first week, the "librarian" at Emery's offices, (who served as the firm's main corporate secretary and receptionist,) had refused to answer even the simplest of my questions about the buildings. This presented my first challenge, and triggered my concern over some of the materials, (and particularly the physical ones) that I discovered. I was particularly interested in why they had commissioned *three* entirely different sets of plans for the towers? Their answers were logical, to a point. The plan-set which is posted widely on the internet; "was created ONLY for interior refurbishment."

Not long after the buildings were built, the WTC owners created a separate contract to retain the architects and their "official photographer(s)," as well as several principal engineers from the original consulting firm; "to establish the safety of the twin towers." Each of their staff members worked on this project on a "full-time contract basis," most of them for a period spanning from around 1976-78, or about 10 years, prior to my arrival.

By 1989, according to Mr. Yanku; "there are about 15 participants from ER&A, who have been continually retained for the structural research project, from the onset." This is a huge admission, because their names, and the positions they held therefore must be listed on numerous documents of record.

My assignment was: "To photograph Both of the Towers in their contextual situation. Not just the buildings, but especially how they 'fit' with the neighborhood, including 1-point perspectives of every adjacent structure." Roth had, "been in contact with the property management personnel that this would directly concern." This reinforces my point about potentially available written records! I was only asked to provide my drivers license to access these buildings, with a minor

This was an inherently ludicrous, yet highly challenging request, meaning it was right down my alley! The project was titled "the Bridgeways Project," Their stated objective was; "to encircle the entire twin-structure with scaffolding, to insure the safety of pedestrian traffic during the complete de-commissioning of the towers."

Following a month and a half of coverage I had exhausted my interest in the street vantage-points, so I decided to go up in the towers early one morning, just to see which adjacent rooftops could offer the most suitable additional vantage-points. My memory of these dates is the fact it was far too chilly for me to access the higher rooftop views. This was either May 9th, or June 9, 1989.

My apartment was searched about a fortnight after these events. My girlfriend became alert to the fact that I/we were being followed for a period of two years thereafter. Occasionally, she would ask: "Who's that guy?" - "Who are those two guys following us?" They were *the same* two photographers, "assigned to supervise the clean-up operation for FEMA",-Jim Chestnutt and Kurt Sonnenfeld. (photos provided.) As my proteges in Denver will attest, they were completely incongruous in promoting themselves as a professional "photo-assistants" to various friends of mine at the time.

This pair did not go unnoticed by my landlord and neighbor, Frank Ponte. Through his assurances for my safety, I soon believed it was entertaining to be 'tailed' in this way. About two years later, I made a scheduled visit to see my friend Haidar's Studio on Sunset, in LA. Later that week, we received a visit from them, again offering their "professional assistant services." -This time, I directly confronted the pair, and I said, "You two guys look familiar." With this, Kurt said "I'll wait in the car," and he left without looking back. Jim, (the serious one) remained calm, so I asked him outright: "Are you an FBI agent? Why have you followed me to LA? - This startled him noticeably and his response confirmed that he had received rigorous, professional training. He said nothing more than,- "I believe this interview is over." (Real photographers would have laughed at these assertions!) As soon as he departed, I asked Haidar to let me use his car to follow them! Instead, he physically restrained me, and said; "How about let's you live another day. I know who they are, I can find them." But, he refused to elaborate in any way. "Forget it," he would say, "Let it go, they aren't here to Kill you."






III.) "FBI" 'take-over' at the WTC!

Aware of the neighboring Manhattan building 'security' protocols, I was well prepared as I entered the building, during the morning rush, at about 9:10am. However, I was singled-out from the ordinary building patrons, and immediately escorted to a secondary check-point by the lobby guards, which entirely caught me by surprise.

I explained my interests politely, assuming that I would be allowed free access to the general 'public' areas, such as "Windows on the World," where, "I was just looking forward to seeing the view." -Evidently, someone had provided them with my photograph because I looked indistinguishable amongst the usual patrons at that time of day. However, I was immediately told that I was on a list of persons who were explicitly to be escorted upstairs, "to insure that I would arrive at the engineering office in time for our meeting." - What meeting, I thought?

The suite was listed on the Guard's ledger as: Skilling & Jackson, P.C., -a name I had seen somewhere in print, but I had no prior relations with. I thought, being fully aware that Emery Roth had NOT maintained an office in the building for many years, so clearly this was NOT a situation vaguely pertaining to me! Two regular WTC official guards came from the nearby service area (rear) to escort me upstairs. As we arrived at the 'skylobby,' two, different guards accompanied me from there.

When we arrived at the door to this suite, (Tower 1, around the 86th floor, North) there was yet another guard standing outside, and I became highly skeptical by this point because of the temporary qualities of the sign on their 'main' office door. They had a brand new, fake wood engraved plastic sign, it read: "Skilling Associates, P.C." (I thought, this name doesn't match, and this office has been here for what, over 10 years?)

"Everyone sit down and be quiet." "Who's this?"
-The Chief orator said loudly, starring at me, as the guards led me toward the door of an isolated, (est. 14'x24') glazed conference room, immediately to the left of the entry.

I said: "I am the official photographer from Emery Roth," and offered to shake his hand. Unflinching, somber and businesslike, he said without drawing a breath,- Then, you are to be included, who sent you here?
I said; "Barry Yanku- I just got a message from his secretary."
(Which was not true, but she had called me about something the day prior, but I was not able to learn why she had called me.)

He nodded and addressed the full group, (then reading from a 4x5 file-card,) "As you know some of your associates have worked as absentee members, and they have already confirmed their knowledge of and prior 'agreements of compliance' with the orders I have described to some of you earlier today.

He said to everyone: "Listen carefully, nobody gets out of this!"

"Each of you were called here to sign an affidavit of non-disclosure. None of the information from our project can find it's way into the public-eye. Absolutely nothing that we have learned from this project can be revealed to the public because it is potentially damaging to our client. Some of you have enjoyed 10 years of service on this project for our client. Each of the team leaders have recently received raises and additional benefits. { someone } -has already received a new assignment and he will be getting a healthy raise at his new location, which, as I've explained to each of you, must remain undisclosed."

"I know this transition will take you by surprise, but there was no other way to handle it. You are All terminated from this project effective immediately! This means you need to clear your desks and surrender all of your files by the end of the day. I will assist you in getting these papers into the archive cabinets so we can give them to the owners for safekeeping."

"After you have signed these forms, we will have a short recess. You may go to the Cafe, or to 'Windows' for lunch, but do not leave the buildings! "

"I want you all to know that I am sad to have to break this news. Your fine work here will not go unnoticed. Each of you has provided an invaluable service and we are all grateful. Do not think that this action shows any reflection on the exceptional quality of your individual work!"

This guy's speech sounded like a military operation. Everyone could tell he had no connection to the Port Authority Staff, yet no one in the group recognized that I didn't technically work for their firm, and I had no business being there!






"The 'Critical' issue with these Structures:"

Next, we were escorted to "lunch," at around 10:15am., where I was able to visit with 4, or 5 of the lesser engineers, without oversight from the supervising officers. I played it really cool despite my total ignorance. Each of these men were genuinely furious about what had transpired. I said things like,- "Shame we have to disband-band, I was looking forward to being here for at least a few months."-"What do you suppose we've done wrong?" ...Each man (who's identity was not known to me) in turn revealed:

"The fact is, we all know that the buildings can't stand safely for over 40 to 60 years. It's not the sub-soil, that's granite. They must have received the completed demolition report, which we all knew to expect. It was supposed to be finished months ago. Clearly it looks bad. Well, I'm damn sure we all know the real implication- that the owners can't ever get their money back! That's what we all learned today. -Thanks, _(no knowledge of person he named)_, -screw you!"

I asked: -"Why, what do you mean, how Much too much?"

"It's $2.6 Billion just to erect the two scaffolds to surround both buildings, that's only the beginning. They literally have to re-build them, then un-build them, twice! -Now it's obvious, bottom-line is that the developer will have to sell soon, or take a serious bath; ...Total?- You tell me, $4.5 Billion, or so!" (I forgot his figures.)

-"Why now?" I asked. "They still seem really stable, -architecturally."

"They are much too big. It's come down to a piece-by-piece problem. They simply can't be imploded, we know of no other way. Why do you think they hired me for 10 years to find other solutions? I'm not a structural specialist, just an architect, and a pretty damn good one at that! "

- "I thought Barry said you guys were about to find a solution."

(I could sense that was the wrong thing to say.) A definite look of concern spread over their faces, until I said-"What's a few more flying buttresses going to cost?" It was a lame assertion, but they certainly bought it, as a joke, and everyone relaxed, as I said something like; "So, what about me, should I be composing a resume for my next 'real-job' interview?"

Then someone asked, "Why are you allowed to free-lance?" He asserted: "None of us were allowed to be holding other jobs, as long as we've held these titles, because of the contract-stipulation that had occurred about 4 years ago." - "Tom, Were you aware of this?"

Of course, I had to answer, "No." Which immediately indicated the end of their interest in confiding in me. Instead, they all griped about the pathetic lunch. "This is horrible, I can't eat here!" No one was very relaxed at any point. The more I had learned, the more scared I was, still I played the Jr. draftsperson, listening for more fascinating inside news. -Fat chance.

-Finally, truly pushing my luck, I prodded again, directly addressing the most reserved engineer in the group. "-So tell me about the electrolytic issue?"

Everyone went quiet at first. But, they all realized that we had been sharing some deeply guarded insights. One man began a patent, evasive narrative, clearly not about to go anywhere. But, this main guy had sensed that I actually did know as much as each of them about the compositional, and mechanical arrangement of these disparate metals. By then, I had effectively blown my cover, yet their identities were unknown to me, and we ALL knew that we had found ourselves in a similar jamb here.

He said: "If you are referring to the coring project, I don't think any of us here had any direct involvement. That was terminated a long time ago." I asked; Is it not feasible to simply put a sleeve in with the bad bolts, to separate the metals?

With this, they all joined in, and I got all I needed to know.- There were a total of about 15 floors which had received new bolts, each bolt-hold requiring a noisy core-drilling which had caused the project to cease, because it caused a 'ringing' that transferred the noise, vertically throughout dozens of floors. This infuriated the tenants and thus it became an unacceptable and impractical approach.

Suddenly, (well short of our hour,) two men came in -swat-team style- to escort us back upstairs. Behind them they had back-ups. They were all being "sent to their desks," (which by now didn't exist,) yet the contents of which were completely boxed and/or removed. The Principal Officer awaited us (actually just me) at the entry door:

"Again, son, tell me who you are?" -He asked, like he had all day to become real friendly. "You guys walk ahead," he said, using assertive body-language to physically indicate that he would be in a position to restrain me right there at the door, or at any time he should choose.

I answered: "I'm T.S. Gordon their new, official photographer. I've only been here two months. Evidently, they were tired of paying Mr. Stoller."

"Who's Stoller?, I only know of a Mr. McGrath? -Are you saying you are not with Mr. McGrath's photography firm?"

I said; "You don't know Ezra, the world's greatest at shooting tall buildings? Haven't you seen all the great shots up at Emery Roth? -McGrath has shot what, 4 or 5 decent photos in 4 years!," (-I really played a jerk, as though I were always sarcastic by nature, until. I began to feel that he might arrest me. By the way, Norman's shot's were awesome, but I felt I had to assert a strong, and belligerent opinion here, specifically, just to anchor the notion that he may have had concerning my 'right' to be in attendance here, which I did not, but I didn't care. For me, this WAS serious 'espionage!')

"Son, I asked you a question, ARE YOU, or ARE YOU NOT working with MR McGRATH?"

(gulp!) "No Sir! I don't work for Norman McGrath, nor have I ever met the man." -I said.

"You go by; Tom, Thomas, or T.S.?" -He asked, looking again at my Colorado drivers license.

"T.S., or Tom," - I was only contracted to cover site-analysis, not technically just the buildings. I didn't even need to come in here again to complete my assignment!" - I said; "Look, I can find my way to the elevator if you really don't want me here."
He immediately grabbed my arm, (like a trained MP,) and proceeded to direct me back out into the corridor behind the others.

"No, funny business, man! I'm going to assume you are who you say you are. You were called in because Everyone had to sign off on their contracts as described in their part in this entire assignment. You say you work for Barry__ -who?"

I responded, "Yanku," and added, "He's the one that cuts my checks, and I give him ALL the film." (I knew Barry was a former, 'on-site' project manager, and that he would probably be at lunch if they tried to call. Of course, I lied about giving-up the film. [see: ASMP contract guidelines. ]

"You are not to tell anyone about your employment here, ever!" -he said, "You do exactly what I tell you. You are not allowed to leave these premises. Now, I'm going to have to separate you from the others, while I check your employment status with this Mr. Yanku."



----------------------------------------------------------------------------


What I had witnessed by this point was beyond belief! The entire 1/2 office-floor suite had been almost completely emptied by now. In place of the prior cubicle walls they had demarked the entire space with a grid of masking tape. Uniformly boxed and boldly labeled, were only those items, as he announced to be; "of personal value to their rightful owner."

"Tom, wait here by the window. -IN FACT, all of you with outside affiliations are to wait in a small group here, where I can keep an eye on all of you." They (and I) were evidently 'vendors.' A couple of guys took their seats by the North window, but I was really nervous, and I stood against the glass with my back to the FBI. I gazed down on the un-finished looking iron-work of building #7, which I knew had just been 'topped-out' the day before. I began to compose a photographic mental record of the scene below, by extending my thumbs, and shifting my imaginary perspective, as only a large-format shooter might do.

"What are you studying?" someone quietly asked. "I still can't believe that building is that tall and skinny." (And I really couldn't. I had toured #7, with Photographer Bill Charles, about 10 days earlier, before it went 'high-security,' and I was quite curious about this birds-eye angle.)

He stood up, evidently angry, now, and said quite unpleasantly; "Yeah, good old #7, the building that never should have been built!" I was very surprised as he casually, gently bent an ear in my direction. I think he said, (discretely,) "Does Barry even know you're here?" I whispered,- "No" and re-scanned the view, offering him the opportunity to talk... "Are you going to the ceremony, tomorrow at 11:00am?" ..."I'm considering, why, ...should I?"

The Chief officer, noticing our interaction through the glass, immediately summoned us to stop talking! My instinct was that this man I was with was a senior employee, probably the project architect, who had indicated, in this way, a desperate desire to let me know exactly what this was all about!

" Sir, I told you to take a seat." he said, to this guy. With this, the entire East side of the office floor, being some 20 people, went dead silent. I knew by this he wasn't fooling around, and that the man who had approached me was a very important partner. He separated the four or five of them by one chair each. He made me go to the North East corner, where I had a spectacular view of the Brooklyn Bridge, {which, by-the-way, is the only damn reason I had come here in the first place.!}

After about 5 minutes he physically ushered me into the office where there were at least 9, 'FBI-looking' guys, mostly wearing black suits, gathered around the service-grade conference table, clearly not purchased for that tiny room. (Architects, let alone engineers, would never have been dressed so formally, or organized an office in this way, and I've never met any group that acted so up-tight, much worse so than the Staff at NORAD.)

"Mr Gordon, I'm sorry; Mr. Thomas-Scott Gordon," (he said correcting himself for his witnesses.) "I have called your supervisor at Emery-Roth. He tells me that they Do acknowledge that you have been contracted to photograph the WTC properties." (Note, he did not say "Mr Yanku's name," and, they had not taken the time to discuss any details, so I was "off the hook" in a minor way. Remember, I was NEVER supposed to even be here!)

"I'll repeat for your benefit what has been said to each of the other employees. Your work here is to be terminated immediately! Each member of the staff will be treated as an individual case. You will sign this waiver, which says that you have agreed to comply to an oath of confidentiality concerning your project which we discussed in the hallway." -I asked: "May I read it, before I sign it?" "You may read it, but I can't let you have a copy." I stood at the doorway and read it. After 15 years, I've forgotten the lesser things that were being said between them. A couple of other guys asked me questions too. One man, seated, had asserted a 'superior order' -sounding line. Then, I think the prior leading official said: "Stand-down, Sir, I will handle him." 'The General '(I'll assume that's what he was) chuckled in response to this subordinate, Sergeant's retort. Finally, the General was the one that actually dismissed me, and he even said "good luck with your photography," which made me think he was 'playing an Executive architect,' and I returned the gesture with a warm,- "Thank You, sir!"

Finally, the Sergeant guy said; "You will be escorted from the premises to assure us that you do not talk to any of the other participants on the way out. And, Mr. Thomas-Scott Gordon; You are not to contact the staff here, -not ever again!" He led me to the door where an armed, plain-clothes guard was waiting outside, plus a standard WTC guard. (I think they were also mixed-up by now.) At the sky-deck, there were more guards (I hadn't previously seen them) monitoring the freight elevators. The same pair escorted me down to the concierge check-point, where I was identified to the building guards before being taken by the plain-clothes guy all the way past #6, to the street. -But, why?

Within a few days I called Ezra Stoller, in White Plains. Speaking freely about WTC, he innocently revealed that he - "Wasn't allowed to shoot any more pictures of it." That was a very funny thing to hear him say, because no one ever "doesn't allow" a celebrity photographer to get a better shot! I knew he would hear about this, but I didn't explain what had happened to me, only that it was very exciting for me to get to follow in his shoes. I thanked him for the friendly phone visit, and promised to "send him one of my prints, should I ever get any really great shots of the WTC."

[Magda Hassan]

Peter this looks interesting. Any further comments? Context? He mentions Kurt Sonnenfeld here too.

[Peter Lemkin]

Peter this looks interesting. Any further comments? Context? He mentions Kurt Sonnenfeld here too.

I'm working on this and not sure at this time if it is information only, disinformation, or a mix. The partner with Sonnenfeld some feel was FBI [or some such]....but it does put wheels within wheels, whether true or not. What seems nearly 100% sure is Sonnnenfeld's wife was either pushed to suicide - or more likely murdered and then Mark set-up to take the wrap as a murder....standard black ops stuff....and the reason he won't come back to the USA now, among others. The 911 Untruth movement is making up all kind of ad hoc reasons why he'd kill his wife - when none of the friends say there was tension nor cause - only a stressed marriage due to his always being in NYC filming the WTC, when she was in Colorado alone. It is hard to find details now as the Big Guys are spinning disinfo and lies - coming up with post hoc witnesses [two inmates who'd get lighter sentences for the lies - another SOP] against Sonnenfeld. It stinks from top to bottom. America lets a known and admitted terrorist stay cozy here [ Posada ] and tries to 'get' an innocent whistleblower.....the morality of the Mafia.

[Magda Hassan]

Peter this looks interesting. Any further comments? Context? He mentions Kurt Sonnenfeld here too.

I'm working on this and not sure at this time if it is information only, disinformation, or a mix. The partner with Sonnenfeld some feel was FBI [or some such]....but it does put wheels within wheels, whether true or not. What seems nearly 100% sure is Sonnnenfeld's wife was either pushed to suicide - or more likely murdered and then Mark set-up to take the wrap as a murder....standard black ops stuff....and the reason he won't come back to the USA now, among others. The 911 Untruth movement is making up all kind of ad hoc reasons why he'd kill his wife - when none of the friends say there was tension nor cause - only a stressed marriage due to his always being in NYC filming the WTC, when she was in Colorado alone. It is hard to find details now as the Big Guys are spinning disinfo and lies - coming up with post hoc witnesses [two inmates who'd get lighter sentences for the lies - another SOP] against Sonnenfeld. It stinks from top to bottom. America lets a known and admitted terrorist stay cozy here [ Posada ] and tries to 'get' an innocent whistleblower.....the morality of the Mafia.

I am shocked! The 911 Untruth movement is engaging in 'conspiracy theories' :marchmellow:

[Peter Presland]

The T-S Gordon deposition is some 3 years old now but newly interesting in light of the Sonnenfeld stuff starting to make waves. Gordon is pretty firmly in the 'No Planes' camp, per this on his site index page:

Last week, "le clever trick" brought us 20,k Google reference-markers. Tom-Scott said later that he recognizes the feds will kill him, like the DC Madam, if he continues to fight these agents that are tracking his nemisis, Kurt Sonnenfeld, who may or may not be in Argentina. They know that Tom- Scott gets over 4,000 hits a month with one of the only true stories leading up to the 9/11 massacre. So, why are Wikipedia, Alex Jones and 9/11 Blogger scared to death to comment on his story? Who's behind the current, 2008 spike in disinformation, while several State Senators are coming forward? ..Finally, why is it that 'No Planes,' has received more attention than ANY other 9/11 issue? It still most closely matches the realities of the cartoon-outline hits on the Towers. And all it takes to demand a "Treason Trial" is proving that it wasn't the same planes they originally said had flown that day, when the FAA's own records disprove it! The rest of this global War charade is sure making the average American Joe-six-pack look like a real idiot. Can't people see they are sure to suffer badly when the dollar collapses, as there is no local food supply for the average bankrupt middle-class American city? But, hey you fuckwits, I'm not going anywhere. No, I'm not going anywhere...*This site reviewer has sent over 1 Million curiousity seekers to Webfairy and Nico's sites!* (Next week, we'll be promoting Austin's top female blues artists instead.- LOL!)

No judgement on my part intended here. My own position on 911 is still very fluid. I long ago concluded that the Kean/Hamilton report was unsubtle and not very clever fiction, which left LIHOP and MIHOP. I have moved steadily towards the MIHOP camp ever since. Assuming that MIHOP IS correct, that just leaves how such an event could/would have been planned and executed.

Looked at that way, the 'No-Planes' theories of Nico and 'The Web Fairy' are less fantastic than at first blush. Which is NOT to say I subscribe to them; just that I've leaned not to dismiss ANYTHING out of hand without very solid reason.

IOW - The 'no-planes' theory has more credibility as part of a potential explanation of observed events than the Kean Hamilton Report - which just goes to illustrate what an absolute load of unadulterated garbage that report is.

[Peter Lemkin]

The T-S Gordon deposition is some 3 years old now but newly interesting in light of the Sonnenfeld stuff starting to make waves. Gordon is pretty firmly in the 'No Planes' camp, per this on his site index page:

Last week, "le clever trick" brought us 20,k Google reference-markers. Tom-Scott said later that he recognizes the feds will kill him, like the DC Madam, if he continues to fight these agents that are tracking his nemisis, Kurt Sonnenfeld, who may or may not be in Argentina. They know that Tom- Scott gets over 4,000 hits a month with one of the only true stories leading up to the 9/11 massacre. So, why are Wikipedia, Alex Jones and 9/11 Blogger scared to death to comment on his story? Who's behind the current, 2008 spike in disinformation, while several State Senators are coming forward? ..Finally, why is it that 'No Planes,' has received more attention than ANY other 9/11 issue? It still most closely matches the realities of the cartoon-outline hits on the Towers. And all it takes to demand a "Treason Trial" is proving that it wasn't the same planes they originally said had flown that day, when the FAA's own records disprove it! The rest of this global War charade is sure making the average American Joe-six-pack look like a real idiot. Can't people see they are sure to suffer badly when the dollar collapses, as there is no local food supply for the average bankrupt middle-class American city? But, hey you fuckwits, I'm not going anywhere. No, I'm not going anywhere...*This site reviewer has sent over 1 Million curiousity seekers to Webfairy and Nico's sites!* (Next week, we'll be promoting Austin's top female blues artists instead.- LOL!)

No judgement on my part intended here. My own position on 911 is still very fluid. I long ago concluded that the Kean/Hamilton report was unsubtle and not very clever fiction, which left LIHOP and MIHOP. I have moved steadily towards the MIHOP camp ever since. Assuming that MIHOP IS correct, that just leaves how such an event could/would have been planned and executed.

Looked at that way, the 'No-Planes' theories of Nico and 'The Web Fairy' are less fantastic than at first blush. Which is NOT to say I subscribe to them; just that I've leaned not to dismiss ANYTHING out of hand without very solid reason.

IOW - The 'no-planes' theory has more credibility as part of a potential explanation of observed events than the Kean Hamilton Report - which just goes to illustrate what an absolute load of unadulterated garbage that report is.

Color me MIHOP with some on day of [too late to do anything] forced into LIHOP - but minor. On the 'no plane' axis there are varients. Some say no planes anywhere, others have only no plane at Pentagon [missle] and there are several others that have all or some of the other planes as planes, but NOT the flights that set off as those flights....substituted and likely flown by remote-control; similar in look to the original flights. I'm an agnostic on this, except for the Pentagon. Missle there!