Wikipedia Watch

[Jan Klimkowski]

This will come as no surprise to most here. Well documented as usual by Joel.
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ISGP's problem with Wikipedia
One single admin able to wipe ISGP from dozens of Wiki pages
July 1, 2009
Joël
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You know, I think Wikipedia is a really great concept. Anyone can contribute information to articles, while a relatively small number of administrators see to it that the information remains objective and verifiable. Despite criticism that "anyone can write anything", in reality the vast majority of Wikipedia articles are well sourced and very reliable.
However, as usual, problems arise when it comes to controversial information. Many people cannot deal with this and without even thinking they just discard it. That's too bad, but not much can be done about it. What is worrying, however, is that some Wikipedia editors posses similar character traits. And occasionally, like in this case, they seem to go berserk.

So, The Man took out Joel's sourced work on wikipedia.

Wankers.

To engage is to dignify.

To expose is to destroy.

This act of vandalism, of cyber book burning, strongly suggests that They're worried about Joel's meticulous investigative work.

[Peter Presland]

This act of vandalism, of cyber book burning, strongly suggests that They're worried about Joel's meticulous investigative work.

I agree Jan. I'm no expert on the editing protocols on Wikepedia but it is clear to me from past controversies that there are people who actually make a living out of systematically massaging subjects. My understanding is that anyone can edit any entry and that all edits are logged together with user ID/IP address and subject to a sort of peer review process when disputes arise. There is also a class of (sort of) super-editors with special - allegedly earned - privileges/powers which include an element of adjudication of disputes and punishments for 'abuse' of the system - We just gotta have gatekeepers eh?

The thing is that, if someone IS being paid to massage a particular entry or subject, he/she can clearly devote serious focussed time to it such that the casual amateur with no axe to grind other than sourced accuracy is at a severe disadvantage.

I believe there are those who keep a disciplined eye out for such obvious massaging but the system is so vast that the imbalances described above will obviously have a serious effect over time.

I'm considering devoting a few weeks to digging into the mechanics of all this, with maybe a focussed attempt to get Joel's stuff reinstated. Thing is, when push comes to shove, I believe disputes are subject to a user community vote - and again, if the massagers are organised (and by definition the ones that concern me are likely to be WELL organised) then mustering sufficient votes when required may be a problem.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Peter - my sense is that, in terms of Their ability to control and influence, the internet is currently where network television was 2 or 3 decades ago.

See the Gladio films meticulously saved from oblivion by Magda here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/video_playlist.html

These were broadcast on BBC2 in 1992.

MSM.

Incendiary films.

Even if, or perhaps because, DCIA Colby's admission/justification of Gladio is comedy gold.

I have stories about these films, and individuals involved in their making, which I may tell at some time.

My point for now is that 2 decades ago, it was possible for important fragments of truth to appear on MSM.

No longer.

Right now, fragments of truth also appear on wiki. As a highly relevant example, see the wiki article below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

However, the increasing cyber book burning on wiki, as evidenced by the assault on Joel van der Reijden's work, suggests to me that, to coin an ugly phrase, They are attempting to MSM-ize wikipedia.

To neutralize the internet as a whole.

To make it as safe and sterile as MSM.

They tolerate, indeed encourage, pornography.

They loathe and fear the truth.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Rather amusingly, The Man has already managed to corrupt Allan Francovich's wiki entry:

Allan Francovich (1941 – April 24, 1997) was an American film producer and director who made a series of films purporting to expose Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) covert operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Francovich

purporting

Oh, aren't They clever....



Message to The Man:

MUST TRY HARDER

:aetsch::aetsch:

[Peter Presland]

Wow Peter, you write my anthem. Thank you.

Thanks Myra. - my emergence from 'the concensus trance' you might say. I'm just peed off that it took me so long.

As for Frank Zappa. The quote just caught my attention somewhere; haven't researched it though. Yep, fond 60's memories and all that but - BIG but - there's a dark side involving his father's military background and his upbringing. This from Dave McGowan's 'Inside the Laurel Canyon':

Given that Zappa was, by numerous accounts, a rigidly authoritarian control-freak and a supporter of U.S. military actions in Southeast Asia, it is perhaps not surprising that he would not feel a kinship with the youth movement that he helped nurture. And it is probably safe to say that Frank’s dad also had little regard for the youth culture of the 1960s, given that Francis Zappa was, in case you were wondering, a chemical warfare specialist assigned to – where else? – the Edgewood Arsenal. Edgewood is, of course, the longtime home of America’s chemical warfare program, as well as a facility frequently cited as being deeply enmeshed in MK-ULTRA operations. Curiously enough, Frank Zappa literally grew up at the Edgewood Arsenal, having lived the first seven years of his life in military housing on the grounds of the facility. The family later moved to Lancaster, California, near Edwards Air Force Base, where Francis Zappa continued to busy himself with doing classified work for the military/intelligence complex. His son, meanwhile, prepped himself to become an icon of the peace & love crowd. Again, nothing unusual about that, I suppose.

Plus lots more. Hmmm.

[Myra Bronstein]

Wow Peter, you write my anthem. Thank you.

Thanks Myra. - my emergence from 'the concensus trance' you might say. I'm just peed off that it took me so long.

As for Frank Zappa. The quote just caught my attention somewhere; haven't researched it though. Yep, fond 60's memories and all that but - BIG but - there's a dark side involving his father's military background and his upbringing. This from Dave McGowan's 'Inside the Laurel Canyon':

Given that Zappa was, by numerous accounts, a rigidly authoritarian control-freak and a supporter of U.S. military actions in Southeast Asia, it is perhaps not surprising that he would not feel a kinship with the youth movement that he helped nurture. And it is probably safe to say that Frank’s dad also had little regard for the youth culture of the 1960s, given that Francis Zappa was, in case you were wondering, a chemical warfare specialist assigned to – where else? – the Edgewood Arsenal. Edgewood is, of course, the longtime home of America’s chemical warfare program, as well as a facility frequently cited as being deeply enmeshed in MK-ULTRA operations. Curiously enough, Frank Zappa literally grew up at the Edgewood Arsenal, having lived the first seven years of his life in military housing on the grounds of the facility. The family later moved to Lancaster, California, near Edwards Air Force Base, where Francis Zappa continued to busy himself with doing classified work for the military/intelligence complex. His son, meanwhile, prepped himself to become an icon of the peace & love crowd. Again, nothing unusual about that, I suppose.

Plus lots more. Hmmm.

I read that piece Peter, in it's immense entirety in fact. And I have to say that I found it to be disturbingly vague. After pages and pages of insinuations it never produces any concrete, or even coherent, claims against Zappa. Basically it talks about his dad's career and the family's locale and then never goes anywhere with the info. It bothers me because I think highly of Zappa and believe he deserves better.

I'm open to reevaluating anyone in light of additional info. But the additional info has to be substantial and I see nothing of substance in McGowan's Laurel Canyon series.

[url=http://www.whale.to/b/inside_the_lc.html][/url]

[Peter Presland]

I read that piece Peter, in it's immense entirety in fact. And I have to say that I found it to be disturbingly vague.

You're well ahead of me on that then Myra. I've only had a quick peek.

Frankly I'm neutral on FZ. He was part and parcel of some fond 60's memories for me so I'm reluctant to think bad of him personally too.

There is overwhelming evidence of MKULTRA type meddling in the whole 60's LSD drugs scene though, so with his background providing access of sorts, I guess it would be surprising if they had not taken an interest in him - which not to cast aspersions either - more likely a victim in fact.

I too have a completely open mind on the matter.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Dave McGowan's Laurel Canyon series is one of the subjects of discussion here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...kate+story

[Myra Bronstein]

Dave McGowan's Laurel Canyon series is one of the subjects of discussion here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...kate+story

Thanks Jan. I meant to link to that thread. Yep, McGowan has started some spirited discussions.

[Ed Jewett]

I read that piece Peter, in it's immense entirety in fact. And I have to say that I found it to be disturbingly vague.

You're well ahead of me on that then Myra. I've only had a quick peek.

Frankly I'm neutral on FZ. He was part and parcel of some fond 60's memories for me so I'm reluctant to think bad of him personally too.

There is overwhelming evidence of MKULTRA type meddling in the whole 60's LSD drugs scene though, so with his background providing access of sorts, I guess it would be surprising if they had not taken an interest in him - which not to cast aspersions either - more likely a victim in fact.

I too have a completely open mind on the matter.

My sense of the matter, apart from having read some of this stuff and, er, ahem, well, I think maybe they just dropped the stuff into the pool to monitor what would happen, aside from their more intense work and interest.