A hypothetical discussion on the JFK assassination

[Myra Bronstein]

Ok

I really didn't mean to ruffle any feathers and for what it is worth I don't believe that he acted alone (or at all really) and I believe in a massive conspiracy, I was simply trying to think out the square to further my understanding.

To Mr Drago

Even though your answer was very direct, I see your point.

Thanks all for responding.

That's alright Mark. The trick is not to be in the square to start with. That's where they want you - all confined and limited. Don't accept their parameters. They lead nowhere.

Right. Exactly. They've framed the narrative for decades. And, as the great great (great) George Lakoff frequently points out--"negating the frame evokes the frame." Debating their lies plays directly into their hands.

Don't think of an elephant.
"I'm not a crook."
...
http://www.campusprogress.org/features/1...rge-lakoff

Screw em. We build our own narrative. Let them negate our frame and thereby reinforce it.

[Magda Hassan]

Ok

I really didn't mean to ruffle any feathers and for what it is worth I don't believe that he acted alone (or at all really) and I believe in a massive conspiracy, I was simply trying to think out the square to further my understanding.

To Mr Drago

Even though your answer was very direct, I see your point.

Thanks all for responding.

That's alright Mark. The trick is not to be in the square to start with. That's where they want you - all confined and limited. Don't accept their parameters. They lead nowhere.

Right. Exactly. They've framed the narrative for decades. And, as the great great (great) George Lakoff frequently points out--"negating the frame evokes the frame." Debating their lies plays directly into their hands.

Don't think of an elephant.
"I'm not a crook."
...
http://www.campusprogress.org/features/1...rge-lakoff

Screw em. We build our own narrative. Let them negate our frame and thereby reinforce it.

Yes. It is amazing that people are still talking about 'lone assassins' at all. The 'official' government position is that it is a conspiracy after all. But that is conveniently forgotten by some and it is never publicised because it doesn't fit the narrative.

[Charles Drago]

Ok

I really didn't mean to ruffle any feathers and for what it is worth I don't believe that he acted alone (or at all really) and I believe in a massive conspiracy, I was simply trying to think out the square to further my understanding.

To Mr Drago

Even though your answer was very direct, I see your point.

Thanks all for responding.

I encourage you, Mark, to pursue understanding and share what you learn. But never forget that you will do under wartime conditions.

Thank you for your interest.

Charlie

[Myra Bronstein]

...
Yes. It is amazing that people are still talking about 'lone assassins' at all. The 'official' government position is that it is a conspiracy after all. But that is conveniently forgotten by some and it is never publicised because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Good point. The ARRB concluded that the crime was a probable conspiracy. But that went down the memory hole. I've never talked to one non-researcher who is aware of that fact.

Then again I'm in the US...

[Magda Hassan]

...
Yes. It is amazing that people are still talking about 'lone assassins' at all. The 'official' government position is that it is a conspiracy after all. But that is conveniently forgotten by some and it is never publicised because it doesn't fit the narrative.

Good point. The ARRB concluded that the crime was a probable conspiracy. But that went down the memory hole. I've never talked to one non-researcher who is aware of that fact.

Then again I'm in the US...

Yes, you have my sympathy.

[Myra Bronstein]

...
Yes, you have my sympathy.

I'd rather have your nationality, but thanks.

[Bernice Moore]

Ok

I really didn't mean to ruffle any feathers and for what it is worth I don't believe that he acted alone (or at all really) and I believe in a massive conspiracy, I was simply trying to think out the square to further my understanding.

To Mr Drago

Even though your answer was very direct, I see your point.

Thanks all for responding.

That's alright Mark. The trick is not to be in the square to start with. That's where they want you - all confined and limited. Don't accept their parameters. They lead nowhere.

MARK YOU MAY FIND THESE CONNECTIONS INTERESTING........B

An old post with a bit new.....

Link to Lt Col. Robert E.Jones....... HSCA ...Testimony....

There were 8 to 12 Millitary Intelligence officers in Dealey Plaza at the
time of the Assassination of J.F.K.....

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/unpub_testimony/Jones_4-20-78/html/jones_0001a.htm

Millitary Intelligence.....

When it emerged in the 70's that the Army had been conducting serveillance and keeping files on thousands of American citizens ,in the name of national security....Congressman Richardson Preyer soon after the Assassination Committee learned that the records on the Oswald "Hiddell: file had been destroyed and that this file had existed before the assassination..when contacted he stated that "There have been instances of files being, I guess you could say maliciously witheld or even destroyed..We don't know what the motive is and it's this kind of problem we run into.The Pentagon had destroyed it's Kennedy assassination files, the Army file on the Kennedy assassination has been destroyed,and we don't know why it was done.' For some this raises the spector that by their conduct the American Intelligence agencies were involved in the assassination. of the President, and that his murder was a Coup d'etat..There is doubt though ,that it's leadership would have had involvement as a group .

In 1979 the A.C concluded bluntly in fact, that neither the SS nor the FBI nor the CIA were involved as organizations..It made no reference in it's main findings to the military.The Committee did though consider evidence that individual members of the agencies might have had prior covert associations with Oswald and even played a role in the assassination...
The Warren Commission simply stated " Close scrutiny of the records of the Federal Agencies involved and the testimony of the responsible officials of the U.S.Government establish that there was absolutely no type of informant or undercover relationship between and agency of the U.S. Government and Lee Harvey Oswald at any time"...
Today we see with the wake of Watergate and a stream of CIA scandals....the WC did not see all the records, and as we know now some of the "responsible officials," consulted have been exsposed as being extremely irresponsible..and may I use the word criminal in their actions.

As an example:
Allan Dulles ..in the transcript from one of the WC executive meetings
released only in 1975..gives a good exposing light on the CIA's attitude on the ethics of public esposure..on how he as a former Head of the CIA would deal with agents that had been recruited:

""Dulles:.........he wouldn't tell.
Chief Justice Warren : Wouldn't he tell it under oath?
Dulles: I wouldn't think he would tell it under oath, no.
Chairman: Why?
Dulles: He ought not to tell it under oath. Maybe not tell it to his own government, but wouldn't tell it any other way.
Chairman: Wouldn't he tell it to his own chief ?.
Dulles" He might or he might not.""(1)

A Warren Commission story ,associated with document 1133..

In 1975...Seth Kantor a Washington newspaper correspondent ,discovered that the FBI was still holding back this 1133 document ..he found out that this information was in reference to his own record of telephone calls he had made from Dallas the afternoon of the assassination.
He found out that the reason why stated that this state secret might "reveal the identity of confidential sources of information"...Kantor was then instilled with the desire to find out exactly what his information would reveal..and having his own notes from that afternoon saved, he began to cross check ...after time he was given the document ,which contained the information that he had placed some phone calls drom the Dallas City Hall, Parkland Hospital and the airport at Love Field....of course the FBI said that it was a beaurocratic blunder ,that it had not been released......But when checking all Kantor found there was a call he had made from the City to a Florida number, Coral Gables MO 5-6473....and it was the phone number of one Hal Hendrix..he was a Miami journalist and did work for Kantor's newspaper group. Hendrix had offered information on Oswald,and so on the afternoon of the assassination, in Dallas...Kantor received information on his past, his defection to Russia, ,his involvement with the pro-Catro activists ,when he had returned and such..now this information would become known soon enough, but this shows that Hal Hendrix was no ordinary journalist..He had even won a Pulitzer in 1963 for his work on the coverage of the Cuban Missile Crissis in 1962......

But on Sept 24th,1963.... he was scathingly brilliant by describing the coup that busted pro-Kennedy President Borsch of the Dominican Republic....The brilliance of his reporting was that he described and justified this coup in his article ........24 hours BEFORE it happened.....
Hendrix had a source at Homestead Airforce Base, south of Miami...a CIA source.As the years passed, Hendrix became know to be the "Spook" amongst his Washington colleagues.because of his known relationship with American Intelligence...But it became known publicly and in 1976 he pleaded guilty to witholding information in relation to a Senate Committee investigation that linked multinnational corporations in co-operation with the CIA.He lied to the Senate Committee in collusion with the CIA concealing his access to them and their information....This man who knew too much about LHO the afternoon of the assassination was protected by the FBI for 12 years..till Seth Kantor had his information released.....(2)

As has been related previously we know that within the file the US Army Intelligence had on Oswald "Hidell" before the assassination ,contained information re the address of 605 Elsbeth and within a very short time of the assassination...this information became known to Lt Jack Revill DPD.
Military Agents were present in Dealey Plaza that Friday, it is now stated in some books that they had been requested as back up for the SS.

On Nov.22/63 in San Antonio, a Lt. Colonel Robert Jones was on duty as operations officer ,for the 112th Military Intelligence Group and as he heard the report of the assassination, he urgently asked for information from his men for any information from the men at the scene of the killing. He received an early afternoon phone call "advising that a A.J.Hidell had been arrested..." ..Published information does not suggest that the name "Oswald" was used..though both names were on id cards within Oswald's wallet..Jones states that he soon found the file on "Hidell" within military intelligence and it cross-referenced with a file on "Lee Harvey Oswald"..also know as A.J.Hidell.....It contained the information about his past including Russia, and New Orleans....

According to Jones testimony ,the summary of such within the Assassinations Committee, he states the file had been opened in mid-63 "under the names Lee Harvey Oswald and A.J.Hidell, following a NOPD report of his activities in support of Castro..Lt Jones, got on the phone and spoke to FBI Agent-in-Charge Gordon Shanklin..(3)Jones then wrote his report and as far as his work was concerned that summarized all...on his end. The AC said it found his testimony "credible:....however there is a flaw.of all the known facts about LHO's use of the Hidell name .......Jones states that "Hidell" was a name used by Oswald and therefore that is why the intelligence file contained both names. However ............Oswald did not use the name Hidell as an alias in New Orleans..nor anywhere is it found in the massive documentation of his life .(4).there are no references to that name until a "rifle" was ordered from Klein’s ,and the pistol he is accused of using to kill Officer Tippit..Therefore if his testimony is correct the Army Intell had knowledge of the separate use of the name "Hidell" by Oswald or they knew of the name being used to buy the guns before the assassination....but the file had been destroyed........and without access the knowledge of Oswald’s' affiliations with them is conveniently gone....

*** "FBI..records show Jones telling the FBI that Hidell was an associate of Oswald ,not a name used as an alias."

It is also now clear and certain that the CIA had interest and involvement in the left wing groups..but that Army Intelligence also had "operational interest" in these groups as well, including the FPCC .The Intelligence Committee found at least one case that a government informant was "fronting" as a Castro supporter. while being a source of Army Intelligence.
After the assassination of the President these agencies the FBI, CIA and AI all failed to make accessible any information to the official inquiry..The AI deserved special attention seeing that the AC revealed it had a file on Oswald and Hidell...and had destroyed all.(5) The Army of course said that it was destroyed along with the normal file management .Congressman Richard Preyer Chairman of the Assassination Committee in 1978 ,when he spoke to the author related that........."Secretary ( Melvin R.) Laird in 1971, after all the charges concerning Army spying, ordered that the spying be stopped and those files destroyed ...
Perhaps as a part of that destruction, the Kennedy files were also destroyed at that time.".....The report on the AC stated that the Army's actions had made it impossible to correlate from documentary evidence whether LHO had an "affiliation with army intelligence" It did not though say anything about the "spying" that the Congressman had mentioned to the author..


"Conspiracy:: Anthony Summers: 1980,81,89.with updsate 91..pages: 60-61,104-5-6,275-6-7,

1reyer author interview..Dulles: WC Exec Session,Jan27/64
2:Kantor and Hendrix:"Kantor" p.198 .."Bayo Pawley Affair", Soldier of Fortune,1976.
3: "Hidell" and the Military Intelligence: Paul Hoch memo on "Army Intelligence, A.J.Hidell, and the FBI," Oct.8.1977" FBI document 10582555 ( unrecorded) ( original) in 62-109060-811): "Dallas Morning News", March 19,1978:HSCA Report p.221..( Oswald both names in wallet: V1.228.
4:Oswald does appear to have used the name "Hidell" while living in New Orleans however not as an alias.The name A.J.Hidell does appear as chapter president on his FPCC card which he did show to police after his arrest there .It also appears on an FPCC leaflet distributed in New Orleans .Handwriting experts on the HSCA (V111.238) were of the opinion that the signature was of Marina Oswalds..The point being that Oswald was using the Hidell .....whether he existed or not....as someone other than himself ?? The name was also found in his index cards along with his cards for real people..(Meagher page 197)..However in WC X 52..Oswald was not carrying any Hidell ID when questioned in NO..

See discussion of this in "Blind Man's Bluff In New Orleans" Chapter 17..

5 :Army Intell.file: HSCA Report page 224.

6: Hearings of Committee on Un American Acitivites Nov.19,1963, John Glenn.

Congressman Richard Preyer: Chairman of the Assassination Committee
http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2001/04/16/editorial3.html?page=1

http://www.lib.unc.edu/mss/inv/htm/05111.html

Secretary of Defence Melvin R Laird..under President Richard Nixon

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/stories/2001/04/16/editorial3.html?page=1


B..:marchmellow: