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The Protocols of Zion?
#11
They certainly sound like very accurate predictions to me.

I agree that Peter also has a point, but just looking at those 19 steps

is uncanny, given where we are.

Call it whatever you want NWO, fascism, our world as we though we knew it is spirling downward at an alarming speed.

As for the youth, I agree with Peter. Some who educate themselves on the net are aware but the vast majority are beyond dummed down. Gansta rap is their education. It terrifies me.

Dawn
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#12
We can't be sure of these protocols but we can be damn sure of the Noahide Laws! Just when will they be enacted upon the masses?

George Bush, indicated in Public Law 102-14, 102nd Congress, that the United States of America was founded upon the Seven Universal Laws of Noah

I do not agree with everything on this link as I am not of any faith, but if I were to choose a faith, it would NOT have anything to do with these heinous and deadly laws that Bush Sr. decided we would one day live by. That day may be closer than I ever thought. Also, google the Lubavitch movement if you like sleepless nights.

http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/noahide_laws.html
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#13
Kate, can you direct me to the Library of Congress or a similar .gov website that shows these laws please? I have Googled them but apart from a myriad of religious type sites - which I have trouble trusting for content accuracy - I remain unable to verify there is such as thing as "Public Law 102-14" - let alone whether such things are Noahide in content.

To me this all very much sounds - and has the hype of - a complete fiction, but I am willing to stand corrected if you can show any factual basis for this post.

David
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#14
David Guyatt Wrote:Kate, can you direct me to the Library of Congress or a similar .gov website that shows these laws please? I have Googled them but apart from a myriad of religious type sites - which I have trouble trusting for content accuracy - I remain unable to verify there is such as thing as "Public Law 102-14" - let alone whether such things are Noahide in content.

To me this all very much sounds - and has the hype of - a complete fiction, but I am willing to stand corrected if you can show any factual basis for this post.

David

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c1...c102xT9Yzt::
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#15
The link is dead?
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#16
David Guyatt Wrote:The link is dead?

Go here: http://thomas.loc.gov/ type in 102-14 under search.
Then on next page choose New Search and then choose 102 congress and go down and type in 102-14 again. Next page choose top listing Res. 104. Next page choose text of legislature. Next page on No. 1 click on H.J. Res 104 and you can read the entire bill. This should work. I was just there.
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#17
Kate, thank you for stepping me through that. I did find it in the end and you are right that such a law does exist.

So far as I can fathom from a round of Googling, there is a lot of Christian rightist hype about this which has (designedly imo) added the belching flavour of brimstone to things.

But it looks to me as though this law was proposed and adopted only as a mark of respect to the late Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and I personally don't find that harmful -- although again I stand ready to be corrected by ay pertinent facts that might reveal this position to be in error.

The Rabbi was also awarded, posthumously, the Congressional Gold Medal, which was proposed and passed unanimously.

For those who might wish to research further the following links contain the bare bones.

Firstly, a Wiki bio of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson

Secondly the Bill that became law

Thirdly, a direct Congressional Library link for the Bill
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#18
David Guyatt Wrote:Kate, thank you for stepping me through that. I did find it in the end and you are right that such a law does exist.

So far as I can fathom from a round of Googling, there is a lot of Christian rightist hype about this which has (designedly imo) added the belching flavour of brimstone to things.

But it looks to me as though this law was proposed and adopted only as a mark of respect to the late Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, and I personally don't find that harmful -- although again I stand ready to be corrected by ay pertinent facts that might reveal this position to be in error.

The Rabbi was also awarded, posthumously, the Congressional Gold Medal, which was proposed and passed unanimously.

For those who might wish to research further the following links contain the bare bones.

Firstly, a Wiki bio of Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson

Secondly the Bill that became law

Thirdly, a direct Congressional Library link for the Bill

Can't say that I agree with you on that. Those laws are derived only from the Talmud which is one of the most anti-gentile books ever written. Christians will believe anything that blows from behind a pulpit and they honesty believe the Noahides are in their bible, they are not.

The Lubavitch movement is strictly a Talmudic/Caballah sect and if you have never read the Talmud, you really should. The book of Sanhedrin instructs Jewish men how to have sex with little girls as long as they are at least 3 years and one day old. It also instructs them on having sex with little boys and I believe the age is 7 for them. It tells when and how a woman can have sex with little boys and also animals. It teaches that sex with a corpse is not a sin since the body is dead. It also teaches that all non-Jews are dogs and less than human. If Bush is truly the pedophile he is reported to be, this is the book for him.

I really do not care how many honors this man was given or by whom. Lip service is given many many times to those whom something will be expected later. Didn't Arafat receive the Nobel Peace Prize??? Awards and honors no longer mean much in this world.

The Christians are riled up over this as they know the worship of any other god other than the insane OT yahweh is forbidden and according to the Talmud is punishable by death. They fail to see that ALL worship other than the Talmudic god will be forbidden but since their's is the 'only' true one they care not for anyone else.

I am not a religious person but when one group tries to force their system of belief on the world, I have a huge problem with that. I began reading the Talmud many years ago and it is rotten and hateful. The bible does have some great advice such as being aware of the wolves in sheeps clothing. Also, anyone Bush Sr. passes bills for without revealing it to the public is someone I would be just a bit leary of.

One does not need religion in order to see when something is just not quite right.
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#19
The Lubavichers are as batty as the Christian fundalmentalists with whom they have much in common including creationism and a messianic outlook. They are a source of much division in the wider Jewish community also and even amongst the Chabad community. They are a numerically small though influential group and have quite a bit more sway than would be apparent from their numbers at first glance. They do much 'outreach' into the Jewish community and through the Noahide campaign in the non-Jewish community too. However, all that is done is done for religious resaons or to a religious purpose. If enough people take up the various Mitzvah (observance of Jewish religious laws) it will bring about the arrival of the Messiah (Moshiach). When Rabbi Schneersohn died many were quite devastated as some believed him to be the actual Messiah. For some he is like Elvis and is still alive and not dead at all. The religious in general are very good at denial of reality. But then so are some non believers.

(But as all of us here know the true Messiah is Brian. He gave us a sign of his divinity - the holy footwear. An Iraqi Brianite was recently shown trying to convert Bush to the teachings of our one true Lord and Saviour Brian (blessed is his name amongst the cheesmakers) and save Bush from his evil ways)

If the fundy Christians (or at least the people who support them and need their support) are working with the Lubavichers it will be for their messiah and their agenda. Since it is all rather dubious and silly I don't know what the US government is doing getting itself all involved in this matter. They should know better.

While in and of itself there is no problem with an 'Education and Sharing Day' which are good things and to be encouraged there are some issues with the promotion of the Noahide laws. It is not secular education the Lubavichers or Schneersohn want. And the sharing is of a limited kind. Mostly the sharing of knowledge that promotes elitism, superstition, top down kind of telling you what to do knowledge. A because it is in The Book and says so knowledge. We are not talking about an equal redistribution of wealth kind of sharing here.

Firstly, why is the government bothering at all with this nonsense? At the very least I suspect a hefty donation to the Republicans in order to buy some sort of politcal respectability and a higher profile for the Lubavicher movement. The Republicans and the Democratic parties and their leaders have never adhered to any of these laws and judging by government policy have no intention of doing so. Just lip service no actions. Window dressing for the gullible.

The Rabbi is not universally respected either with in the Jewish community or the wider community where he is hardly even known let alone respected or revered. For many he and his movement is an embarrassment and a laughing stock.

With regards to the Noahide outreach work in the non-Jewish community by the Lubavichers. The Torah Noahide laws are directed at non-Jews. Like much religious dogma and law (from all religions) it is divisive and exclusionary. There are the saved/chosen ones/true believers/enlightened ones etc and then there are the heathens/unclean/unsaved/great unwashed/ etc. Guess which group god likes best. Guess which group gets to tell us what god thinks and says. Since no one has seen or heard from god we only have this group word for it and they seem to have vested interests. It is not enough for non-Jews to practice the Noahide laws because they seem sensible or a good idea. They must be fully accepted as divine to become a righteous gentile or else you will still be left off the boat when the end times come. But then that is the OT god all over vindictive bastard that he is. It is because it is seen as important to the Lubavichers (that is, not because it is a good idea in and of itself, we are dealing with Religion not reason here after all) that as many non-Jews get on board with the Noahide laws and with their other out reach work bring home the wayward non Orthodox non Chabad Jews that the Messiah can come to earth. :musicus:

Why the US government wants to invole itself with this nonsense I do not know. The don't believe it or practice it. And there should be seperation of state and religion.

There is a serious problem of child (sexual) abuse in the orthodox Jewish community (as it is also in many other communities) Again, like other communities where it is widespread, there is the patriarchal authoritarian and closed structure of the families and community. I don't know that there is any biblical basis for it though I am sure it can all be justified by the perpetrators as it will be anyway. I think it more likely they do it because they themselves think they are god all fucking mighty and can do what they please with out consequences or regard for others as only a sociopath can think. It is also a small community and intermarriage happens so there is the incentive to cover up the families dirty linen at least by some members.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#20
Bravo Magda!!!! I am delighted to know there are others that have knowledge of this issue as it is not as innocent as some might think. The Torah is a washed down version of the Talmud in some ways as it always depicts the 'chosen' killing, raping and enslaving all non-Hebrews who are unfortunate to get in their path. If Christians would take the time to read all the Mosaic laws in the OT regarding the treatment of non-Hebrews they might get a surprise. Such things as being forbidden to sell rotten meat to other Hebrews but it is encouraged to do so to gentiles. Even in the NT the Jesus character refers to non-Jews as dogs.

As far as the child molestation that is reported, that should not surprise anyone either. It is also justified by the OT and Moses commanded his men to kill men and boys but keep the virgin women and virgin girls for themselves. That is rape in any book, not to mention child sexual abuse. The Talmud is pure filth. This is what generations of incest will do.

There are many sites created by Jews who are now trying to outlaw the practice of both circumcision and the ritual as it now stands with the Rabbi actually sucking the blood from the infants penis!! You can google it and what they report will make you sick. Also, do a search on 'Circumcision causes brain damage'. Apparently, many doctors have been saying this for years but the medical society as a whole makes millions from this practice that is completely unneeded. There is no medical reason for it and just another practice that came from religious superstition. Maimonides was one of the top Jewish Robbins who is still widely read and held in esteem by most Jews. He wrote that circumcision was to keep men docile and easy to control. I have that info stored in my hard drive and will try to find it tomorrow. We think genital mutilation is such a crime when the Muslims do it but hell, we do the same things to our own sons. We force it upon them just as people force their beliefs on their kids. I wish I had known this when my sons were born. After researching and reading how it is done and the agony those babies go through it upset me and angered me beyond words. This whole practice goes back to the fight Apostle Paul had with James the Just about bringing in the gentiles and deciding what laws of the Torah they were to follow. Paul hated circumcision so James laid out the bare essentials and didn't insist but somewhere along the way the non-Jews took up the practice also.

I found that work of Maimonides:

Extracts from:
THE GUIDE OF THE PERPLEXED by Moses Maimonides, translated by Shlomo Pines. University of Chicago, 1963.

[CIRP Note: Moses Maimonides (1135-1204), also known as the "Rambam", was a medieval Jewish rabbi, physician and philosopher. CIRP presents Maimonides' teachings on non-therapeutic ritual circumcision.]
[Image: rambam.jpg]
Moses Maimonides Part III, Chapter 33

To the totality of purposes of the perfect Law there belong the abandonment, depreciation, and restraint of desires in so far as possible. You know already that most of the lusts and licentiousness of the multitude consist in an appetite for eating, drinking and sexual intercourse.
To the totality of intentions of the Law there belong gentleness and docility; man should not be hard and rough, but responsive, obedient, acquiescent, and docile. You know already His commandment... "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. Be silent, and hearken, O Israel. If ye be willing and obedient."
Part III, Chapter 49

Page 609:
Similarly with regard to circumcision, one of the reasons for it is, in my opinion, the wish to bring about a decrease in sexual intercourse and a weakening of the organ in question, so that this activity be diminished and the organ be in as quiet a state as possible. It has been thought that circumcision perfects what is defective congenitally. This gave the possibility to everyone to raise an objection and to say: How can natural things be defective so that they need to be perfected from outside, all the more because we know how useful the foreskin is for that member? In fact this commandment has not been prescribed with a view to perfecting what is defective congenitally, but to perfecting what is defective morally. The bodily pain caused to that member is the real purpose of circumcision. None of the activities necessary for the preservation of the individual is harmed thereby, nor is procreation rendered impossible, but violent concupiscence and lust that goes beyond what is needed are diminished. The fact that circumcision weakens the faculty of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable. For if at birth this member has been made to bleed and has had its covering taken away from it, it must indubitably be weakened. The Sages, may their memory be blessed, have explicitly stated: It is hard for a woman with whom an uncircumcised man has had sexual intercourse to separate from him. In my opinion this is the strongest of the reasons for circumcision.
Pages 609-610:
According to me circumcision has another very important meaning, namely, that all people professing this opinion-that is, those who believe in the unity of God-should have a bodily sign uniting them so that one who does not belong to them should not be able to claim that he was one of them, while being a stranger. For he would do this in order to profit by them or to deceive the people who profess this religion. Now a man does not perform this act upon himself or upon a son of his unless it be in consequence of a genuine belief. For it is not like an incision in the leg or a burn in the arm, but is a very, very hard thing.
It is also well known what degree of mutual love and mutual help exists between people who all bear the same sign, which forms for them a sort of covenant and alliance. Circumcision is a covenant made by Abraham our Father with a view to the belief in the unity of God. Thus everyone who is circumcised joins Abraham's covenant. This covenant imposes the obligation to believe in the unity of God: To be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee. This also is a strong reason, as strong as the first, which may be adduced to account for circumcision; perhaps it is even stronger than the first.
The perfection and perpetuation of this Law can only be achieved if circumcision is performed in childhood.

Link to the article:

http://www.cirp.org/library/cultural/maimonides/

Religion and it's hold on mankind has more to do with where we are at this point in history than most people realize. It is just as dangerous as rotten politics and is used as a control of masses.
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