People or Sheeple On JFK and 'The Whole Mess'

[Magda Hassan]

http://www.uow.edu.au/~bmartin/pubs/01nvc/nvcp08.pdf
http://libcom.org/tags/sabotage
http://www.reachoutpub.com/osh/
I'll see if I can find a copy of the CIA sabotage manual.

[Bruce Clemens]

Neo-fascism in America
by Jim Macgregor
Information Clearinghouse

An excellent read, Peter. Some of this was new to me. It's a great "Brief History" of the red-pill U.S. past.
Thanks!

[Peter Lemkin]

Neo-fascism in America
by Jim Macgregor
Information Clearinghouse

An excellent read, Peter. Some of this was new to me. It's a great "Brief History" of the red-pill U.S. past.
Thanks!

Welcome [or sorry - don't know which]. Read some of the references. I know even more devastating such articles, but hesitate to post them.....

[Ed Jewett]

When I say 'take it back'....I don't want what America 'was'; I want what America could be...its promise.....[in all senses of the word]....

[and all those things I can endorse...]

It is not going to be an easy task.......so roll up your sleeves and lets get going....time is short, the task gargantuan, the stakes ultimate. Jensen's ideas of dismantling of the worst of 'civilization' also resonates with me. And if most don't want to follow, I personally want to find some spot to declare free of the other tyrannies, to live out the last few of my years, with a few sane and moral persons. hakehands:

Can't agree more, Peter... And I think that it was that link to/from Jensen that first made me aware of this place... Jensen's ultimate challenge may perhaps be taken as a metaphorical challenge, and somewhere in "Endgame" there is a list of other things people and ought to tbe doing, all of which fall into your list. That's more appealing, and Bruce's commentary is suggestive that organizing nvcd and wokring in soup kitchens and community garden/distribution enterprise may be as revolutionary an act as any (aside from telling the truth). I am especially focused on the human element here.

But I have a question for Peter and about his post, which is this: As good as all that sounds, isn't all that in the 'deep objectives' category?

It seems to me that we have much preliminary work to be done before we can dream of such things becoming reality; we need to learn the tools, build the bridges, fashion the packets of truth to be shipped out, etc.

We need a larger supra-guild of elves, monks, scribes, and others, some to do the research, some to feed the hopper of information to be sifted and sorted, some to re-package or re-write, some to maintain the external distribution system, some to act as hawkers and marketeers, some to function as strategists, and -- of course -- the fiscal and administrative necessities. Maybe that's what we're beginning to do. But we can't all be generalists, moving from function to function; at the risk of generating the same thing we are fighting, maybe we need more functional organization based on interests and skills and quality output. Speaking for myself, I only wish to be harnessed effectively.

[Peter Lemkin]

When I say 'take it back'....I don't want what America 'was'; I want what America could be...its promise.....[in all senses of the word]....

[and all those things I can endorse...]

It is not going to be an easy task.......so roll up your sleeves and lets get going....time is short, the task gargantuan, the stakes ultimate. Jensen's ideas of dismantling of the worst of 'civilization' also resonates with me. And if most don't want to follow, I personally want to find some spot to declare free of the other tyrannies, to live out the last few of my years, with a few sane and moral persons. hakehands:

Can't agree more, Peter... And I think that it was that link to/from Jensen that first made me aware of this place... Jensen's ultimate challenge may perhaps be taken as a metaphorical challenge, and somewhere in "Endgame" there is a list of other things people and ought to tbe doing, all of which fall into your list. That's more appealing, and Bruce's commentary is suggestive that organizing nvcd and wokring in soup kitchens and community garden/distribution enterprise may be as revolutionary an act as any (aside from telling the truth). I am especially focused on the human element here.

But I have a question for Peter and about his post, which is this: As good as all that sounds, isn't all that in the 'deep objectives' category?

It seems to me that we have much preliminary work to be done before we can dream of such things becoming reality; we need to learn the tools, build the bridges, fashion the packets of truth to be shipped out, etc.

We need a larger supra-guild of elves, monks, scribes, and others, some to do the research, some to feed the hopper of information to be sifted and sorted, some to re-package or re-write, some to maintain the external distribution system, some to act as hawkers and marketeers, some to function as strategists, and -- of course -- the fiscal and administrative necessities. Maybe that's what we're beginning to do. But we can't all be generalists, moving from function to function; at the risk of generating the same thing we are fighting, maybe we need more functional organization based on interests and skills and quality output. Speaking for myself, I only wish to be harnessed effectively.

I have no idea of your age or your experiences. You are aware, whatever they are. Jensen, as I said before, is a friend of mind and someone I admire greatly. A focus on humans is important, but it is not the broader spectrum needed. The enemy is entirely human, however. As to all the pre-preparation you seem to speak of...I can only remember the chaos and seamless flow of the '60s and '70s movements......where people grew decades in a day - with an epiphany of a talk, touch, gesture, kindness. heart-felt kindness and so many other things. I think 1] we don't have the luxury of the time for all this nice preparation and 2] don't need it. In a revolution, things just happen and they happen at a more rapid rate that at normal times. We desperately need a revolution of immense proportions and one that completely obliterates the old paradigms and finds new ones [really the old ones] again. I have to say for the NSA monitoring this that I believe the 'revolution' must be peaceful, but I also believe that. I am totally against violence and it is our enemies, our Nation, our Oligarchy, our corporations and our system that worship and practice violence - physical, economic, moral, political, class, sex, race, speciest, and warfare for profit and empire. Basta! We end that - or it ends all of us. That simple.

[Ed Jewett]

Here's what I'd like to do here, in this thread or on this web site, subject to ... (I do some cross-over posting and communicating to other places):

I'd like to have a conversation about how to find, coalesce and energize others (whether online or face-to-face).

And I'd like to suggest that we go through that list of 198 ways and begin to brainstorm the examples, what's, how's, ideas, etc.

And, of course, I'd like to enlarge this conversation to enroll others ...

I am pleased to see this, Ed. It's stuff I have been thinking about for a long time. Here are some points that I think need to be considered before progress can be made on this front:

First, Dr. King and Gandhi, indeed all civil rights and human rights leaders, spoke to a population who knew they were oppressed. Most of the people we will encounter have to learn that they are oppressed, or have to be made to understand that oppression is coming.

I will have to return to this post and this thread regularly but, for now, let me zero in on the comment quoted above; I think it is the very tip of our spear, the task that most needs our attention -- but then this feeds into the comments previous about guild et alia because the efforts of the people like Douglass, Drago and his mentor, Jack White, the founders of DPF et al -- the list is long so forgive me for leaving out names -- is the sine qua non. Wondering what happened in Dealey Plaza is what started most of us down this road, and the research into deep politics, current events et al.

I am also going to note your comment about tweeting on twitter and the use of social media. I have been concerned about that kind of stuff, having read about how it is both monitored and used (and therefore, almost by definition if not in fact) corrupted by the state security apparatus and the purveyors of yuck.

in addition, it takes time. But I also read John Robb's blog GlobalGuerrillas regularly to learn more about tactics in our day and age. Robb's commentary on "the super-empowered individual" may be useful to those active in non-violent movements as well. I do now have a cell phone with camera capability, though I don't tend to find myself (yet) on the scene of action that would need to be recorded. I can't afford an iPhone or a Blackberry. I also take note of the arrest of those at the G20 behind-the-scenes who were using such technologies. But we must learn to use their tools against them, I guess, and labor on with the sure knowledge that we may be called on to pay a price (the message of Douglass' books).

Here's a side note, though: Given Cass Sunstein's recent pronouncements about taxing and/or banning certain thouights and projections, the founders here at DPF ought to provide some clear direction on where this conversation should take place, if it should at all under their aegis, and -- if so -- where.

[Peter Lemkin]

While real face-to-face meetings/discussions will NEVER replace the internet, I think given current technology and the 'diaspora' [I for example am in involuntary exile in Europe], we can create pseudo groups via webcameras and the right software that can make it feel as if all in separate locations can see and speak with one another in real time. This is SO much more important than just text on a screen for social action. Of course, now, all is monitored - especially something of political import and potential. **** 'em! If you won't take the risk, stay in bed and we'll start the Revolution without you. The journey of a thousand miles/kilometers starts with a single step...and don't forget, they wouldn't spy on us if the weren't AFRAID of us....so we start out with the advantage....morality/legally/constitutionality/humanity/truth [and even THEY know that] is on our side...and that is exactly why they fear us. [Their greatest vulnerability is that they know they are liars, cheats, thugs, murderers, usurers, propagandists, slavers, extortionists, exploiters, out-of-touch with Nature and Natural values and philosophy - even their own religions]. Only by keeping most from being aware of this, using coercion, force, thuggery, propaganda, lies, false-values, etc. as well as other negative actions, can they temporarily maintain their physical/financial/political/military (never moral) advantage. Never forget this! :ridinghorse:

[Ed Jewett]

Peter, it doesn't matter what my age or experience is -- though I'll provide a brief explanation below. Personally, I am not afraid. I've already lived fullly, loved much, been loved, and more. Jensen is not my friend, though I've corresponded, so much as he is my educator, a provocateur of my mind and heart, a teacher, a fellow being. He -- and, I am guessing, you -- correctly point to the larger vessel of life. I am an exile right here where I am. I agree with the need for speed and urgency, and the need to socially connect despite surveillance -- I raised the point because some get scared away from even dialoguing with anyone who will get their name listed as having peaked at a web site or e-mailed someone who -- gasp! -- thinks and feels.

My story is to some extent available on my blog, or elsewhere... I am 60, have two kids and two grandchildren, roomed with a CO* and SDS member while I was enrolled in state university ROTC Special Forces unit (talk about an awakening!), spent my life in the field of EMS (focused on saving lives), have assembled a library on mind/body/spirit empowerment, am an ecumenical who is a baptized Presbyterian, raised Methodist/Congregational, lapsed away from it all, and gravitates back and forth between the Gospel according to Thomas, Taoism, Buddhism, native American sources, and jazz. I have had two major specific and memorable 'peak experiences' and a few minor ones that showed me -- without ingestible impetus -- the mysterium tremendum. You rightly called them epiphanies; I've studied Ken Ravizza.

I died once, briefly [phew!], during a chemical stress test, and hovered near death post-op open heart for days, and then got up -- very slowly -- over a period of months to recover from a peri-operative complex multiplex mostly-motor, mostly-left-sided stroke. So some state security boogeymen don't particular frighten me.

I don't have much time left myself -- that's not grim, just reality -- my docs tell me I'm good for another 12-15 years easy... but I want those remaining years to have been well and fully invested in support of my grandkids' possibilities. I think our greater task is to insure that time capsules that insulate the future against such depradation and degradation are buried where they can easily be found -- in the hearts and minds of the youth of the world.

* I named my first-born after him, and his first-born will carry the name as a middle name.

[Bruce Clemens]

One form of activism that is safe and relatively easy to sell is the concept of serving on juries...and hanging trials when a defendant is on trial unjustly. All it takes is one juror to not agree, and be steadfast, and they can't convict.

A person can make a hobby of getting on juries in trials where the State is prosecuting (persecuting?) an individual for a "crime" that has no victim and has harmed no one. Heaven knows we have plenty of those kinds of trials these days, and they will increase as the War on (people who choose to use) Drugs and the "War on Terrorism" continue to escalate.

http://fija.org/

[Ed Jewett]

"Another even colder hour on the street corners yesterday, and I have a relatively new thought: organizing is a shade different from protesting.
Maybe it's because I have a union organizer in my new novel, who can't understand why protesters meekly submit to arrest. His motto is "cut and run to fight another day. There was a time when protesters wore jail time like a feather in their hat. They quit that after a while and settled on solidarity, a more social goal."

~~


"I overstep to the extent that I often suggest to the person I'm conversing with to "Join us." Some offer excuses, some say they're thinking about it. The prize remark was from a black woman who asked why we were just standing around with posters. I tried to respond, asked her to join us, make a difference. She refused and went away. She wanted more action, fewer words on plain white poster paper.

That might have been the moment when I saw us protesters in a slightly different light. One of us always has a fistful of little folders stating the Veterans for Peace point of view. He's an organizer. A surprising number of pedestrians we talk to are veterans. Usually they accept the leaflets. Some like to talk, some don't. Regardless, it is up to us to be friendly, even when under verbal fire, able to listen carefully and also pitch our own point of view. It all depends on what we hear the other person say. That's organizing. Protesting is putting you body where your mouth is and that is honorable and necessary. But listening and then replying is something to be learned and learned again. That's organizing."


Excerpts from "Protests And Organizing" by Martin Murie


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