The Census is Here. Oh Crap.

[Magda Hassan]

The general concept of a census to gather information to help plan for hospital funding, housing, transport policy is fine. But you don't need names for that just the information. I would freely give that information if I knew it was just for that but I am not at all convinced which is why I feel compelled to civil disobedience on this matter.

In the Australian census the question about religion has always been optional and this is iirc because of the Nazi Germany use of this information. Except for the gas bill there are too many parallels with Germany to be comfortable with the rest of the questions either.

Same for the dogs. If the dog or car has to be registered fine. Why does the human need to be registered?

Oh, and by the way, we all know what happened to JC and it wasn't pretty. A perfect example of why not to comply with the authorities. Kill all the first born males and if you survive that get sold out for 7 pieces of silver and die painfully as an accused criminal for preaching 'Love thy Neighbour' against the rules of local version of Department of Homeland Security. What were they thinking?

[Bruce Clemens]

Same for the dogs. If the dog or car has to be registered fine. Why does the human need to be registered?

They are even trying to regulate individual dog breeds in my city. Pit Bull Terriers are now Canis Non Grata- 'cause you know, those Pitts can't be tamed! It's in their genes...and we need the city government to protect us from them while they protect us from everything else in the world.

You can't own a Pit Bull in my town unless you pay the city a premium...and comply with a host of extra regulations such as signage on your property, fencing, etc....because they are supposed to be a breed that is uncontrollable regardless of upbringing.
[URL="http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html"]
http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html[/URL]

Never mind the authoritative studies that show the bad behavior of some Pit Bulls are absolutely not breed-specific. It is the result of drug-dealers and dog-fighters and abusive people who need to substitute a dog for some other male appendage.

Just another case of census-taking for profit.

[Peter Lemkin]

I wonder how they will count me [I'm American, but live in Europe], so doubt they will....in fact sure they will not.

I was a census worker many years ago, so know what a joke it is. I forget all the details, but remember the general sense of a big joke among census workers. If after multiple tries to a home no one responded or they refused information we were supposed to follow certain very odd procedures to estimate the number and age, etc. of the 'persons' there....when we had NO idea. To save endless returns, some census workers 'divined' the answers themselves. I know for a fact that homeless, those living in cars, those living camping those living on someone else's couch or in their garage, living in hotels, etc. [and this aggregate number is huge despite the big lie they are a minor %] are NOT counted. Not counted are homes [and their occupants] difficult for census takers to get to in mountains or rural areas, deserts, etc. It was a joke and only had some validity in wealthy to middle-class city or suburban areas. When asking a persons ethnic affiliation, I found people both telling untruths and confused - as the group they felt applied was not on the list. Many also obviously lied about income and other factors. The whole thing was/is a joke. It might now also be used as a means of spying on everyone - I don't know - but given the current 'regime' wouldn't be surprised. Minorities are under-represented, as are the poor, and homeless almost completely. Illegals find it a terror, and well should.

[Bruce Clemens]

My house's front door was tagged earlier this summer by an employee of a private company hired by the Department of Commerce in preparation for the Census. I saw the woman walking through the neighborhood with a hand-held unit of some sort. There was a sticker left on my front door explaining how important it was for me to cooperate when the Census comes.

I thought that was strange. It wasn't until later that I learned the unit was a GPS device and she was recording the GPS coordinates of every front door of every dwelling.

How is this, in any way, shape or form, justified by the Constitutional mandate of counting citizens? Dammit, if the government doesn't want people believing in "Conspiracy Theories" they need to stop doing things that are so damn suspicious!

[size=12]Census GPS: A Missile at Your Door [/SIZE]

From NPR in 2006:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=5590541

Robert LaMacchia, head of the Census Bureau's geography division, says they'll capture the latitude and longitude of the front door of every house, apartment and improvised shelter they find.
"We will actually knock on doors and look for hidden housing units," he says. "We will find converted garages; from the outside, it may not look like anybody lives there."
But census workers will add each dwelling, legal or not, to the Census Bureau's Master Address File.
Recent proposed budget cuts have put part of this plan in jeopardy. But if Congress restores the money, the census will end up with the geographic coordinates — accurate to within 10 feet — for about 110 million residences.
But the Census Bureau can't, by law, share that list with anyone, even local governments. LaMacchia says the information has to be treated as confidential. Otherwise, people might lie, and the census wouldn't be accurate.
"People would not tell us about hidden housing units," LaMacchia says. "People would not respond to the questionnaire if they believed that that information would be turned over to law enforcement or code enforcement and become public information."

[Peter Lemkin]

My house's front door was tagged earlier this summer by an employee of a private company hired by the Department of Commerce in preparation for the Census. I saw the woman walking through the neighborhood with a hand-held unit of some sort. There was a sticker left on my front door explaining how important it was for me to cooperate when the Census comes.

I thought that was strange. It wasn't until later that I learned the unit was a GPS device and she was recording the GPS coordinates of every front door of every dwelling.

How is this, in any way, shape or form, justified by the Constitutional mandate of counting citizens? Dammit, if the government doesn't want people believing in "Conspiracy Theories" they need to stop doing things that are so damn suspicious!

[size=12]Census GPS: A Missile at Your Door [/SIZE]

From NPR in 2006:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...Id=5590541

Robert LaMacchia, head of the Census Bureau's geography division, says they'll capture the latitude and longitude of the front door of every house, apartment and improvised shelter they find.
"We will actually knock on doors and look for hidden housing units," he says. "We will find converted garages; from the outside, it may not look like anybody lives there."
But census workers will add each dwelling, legal or not, to the Census Bureau's Master Address File.
Recent proposed budget cuts have put part of this plan in jeopardy. But if Congress restores the money, the census will end up with the geographic coordinates — accurate to within 10 feet — for about 110 million residences.
But the Census Bureau can't, by law, share that list with anyone, even local governments. LaMacchia says the information has to be treated as confidential. Otherwise, people might lie, and the census wouldn't be accurate.
"People would not tell us about hidden housing units," LaMacchia says. "People would not respond to the questionnaire if they believed that that information would be turned over to law enforcement or code enforcement and become public information."

That's the BIG joke...they don't have to 'share' it; NSA and others can look into their computers and GPS devices in realtime. Anyway, I'm sure given the unPatriot Act if asked, they must share and not tell. Bull****, pure and simple! Back 30 years or more ago when I was a census taker people were lying out of fear...now people will lie even more - out of even greater fear...so the result, always way off will be even worse and worse......

[David Guyatt]

Next year the UK has a Census. Local Authorities are already licking their lips at the opportunities this will provide in the revenue raising department. Non Compliance with the Census - abhorred by many for privacy reasons (Local Authorities turn this information over to anyone who cares to ask - for a fee, naturally), will result in a Fine of £1000.00.

It's high time for the :thefinger:

[Peter Lemkin]

To my knowledge the US has not a fine for non-compliance with the Census....don't post this too often or they might see and get the idea! The UK its its own small way really does lead the way for fines for anything the officials [read Oligarchy] don't like - no matter how small..... Are you aware, for example, that in Finland if you get a parking fine it is a percentage - multiplied by your last income tax filing..so a millionaire pays a huge sum for parking without pay for an hour ....and a poor person almost nothing....try that in the UK. [for all things]

[Bruce Clemens]

U.S. Code, Title 13

§ 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers


(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.
(b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.
© Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.


and criminal penalties...

§ 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population


Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

§ 223. Refusal, by owners, proprietors, etc., to assist census employees


Whoever, being the owner, proprietor, manager, superintendent, or agent of any hotel, apartment house, boarding or lodging house, tenement, or other building, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary or by any other officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof, acting under the instructions of the Secretary, to furnish the names of the occupants of such premises, or to give free ingress thereto and egress therefrom to any duly accredited representative of such Department or bureau or agency thereof, so as to permit the collection of statistics with respect to any census provided for in subchapters I and II of chapter 5 of this title, or any survey authorized by subchapter IV or V of such chapter insofar as such survey relates to any of the subjects for which censuses are provided by such subchapters I and II, including, when relevant to the census or survey being taken or made, the proper and correct enumeration of all persons having their usual place of abode in such premises, shall be fined not more than $500.

...which seem pretty draconian...
§ 224. Failure to answer questions affecting companies, businesses, religious bodies, and other organizations; false answers


Whoever, being the owner, official, agent, person in charge, or assistant to the person in charge, of any company, business, institution, establishment, religious body, or organization of any nature whatsoever, neglects or refuses, when requested by the Secretary or other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof, to answer completely and correctly to the best of his knowledge all questions relating to his company, business, institution, establishment, religious body, or other organization, or to records or statistics in his official custody, contained on any census or other schedule or questionnaire prepared and submitted to him under the authority of this title, shall be fined not more than $500; and if he willfully gives a false answer to any such question, he shall be fined not more than $10,000.

[Peter Lemkin]

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/us...-000-.html

and criminal penalties...

§ 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population


Whoever, either directly or indirectly, offers or renders to any officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof engaged in making an enumeration of population under subchapter II, IV, or V of chapter 5 of this title, any suggestion, advice, information or assistance of any kind, with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

§ 223. Refusal, by owners, proprietors, etc., to assist census employees


Whoever, being the owner, proprietor, manager, superintendent, or agent of any hotel, apartment house, boarding or lodging house, tenement, or other building, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary or by any other officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof, acting under the instructions of the Secretary, to furnish the names of the occupants of such premises, or to give free ingress thereto and egress therefrom to any duly accredited representative of such Department or bureau or agency thereof, so as to permit the collection of statistics with respect to any census provided for in subchapters I and II of chapter 5 of this title, or any survey authorized by subchapter IV or V of such chapter insofar as such survey relates to any of the subjects for which censuses are provided by such subchapters I and II, including, when relevant to the census or survey being taken or made, the proper and correct enumeration of all persons having their usual place of abode in such premises, shall be fined not more than $500.

$500 now...waterboarding next Census, my guess.....cynical me.....:afraid:

[Dawn Meredith]

Has anyone actually seen the questionairre for this decade? I had read a few months back that there would be many very invasive questions this time around. Wanting banking information and other such info that has zero to do with keeping track of how many people are here and if they are here legally and the like.

Dawn