Roots of Rendition (Albarelli & Kaye)

[Austin Kelley]

Very sadly, according to one poll I have seen online, 79% believed in UFO's. Arguably, the experiment has succeeded. But this is simply a case of education. The more who understand the true origin of "Flying Saucers" and the inner-world master Lam, template of Whiteley Streiber's Grey alien, the more who will come to self reliance. "Faith" and "belief" are like putty - they are inherently subject to being shaped by other hands.

David, I think that you and I are in agreement that the UFO theme has been the vehicle for a massive psy-op that includes cultural/religious engineering as well as providing cover for mind control experiments.

You allude to Aleister Crowley's "inner-world master Lam", who was kind of a proto-Grey Alien. Crowley of course also linked to various endeavors such as the interrogation of Rudolf Hess, the rise of California's psychedelic underground, the Solar Lodge of the OTO, as well as the efforts of various intelligence agencies to pursue their own inscrutable agenda.

It would be great to hear more of your thoughts on these sorts of themes, especially since Crowley does seem to link somehow to MKULTRA, in the broader sense of the term.

[David Guyatt]

Thanks Austin. Rudolf Hess was, of course, a deep disciple of the occult, especially the peculiar German variant named Thule Gesellschaft, which leads into the whole Shamballa morass. James Bond author Ian Fleming also had an interest in matters occult, hence his friendship with Crowley. And Crowley's O.T.O derived from a German Order.

However, I don't think Crowley ever interviewed or interrogated Hess. Crowley had a reputation for engaging in tricks and deceits. It was his amusement to encourage readers of his books to undertake potentially dangerous occult operations. His writing on, for example, Jack the Ripper, was simple old-fashioned tosh and deflected attention away from what actually was behind the Ripper deaths. Deflection was probably his aim.

Having said all that I am not knowledgeable on Crowley. I've read some of his books, and several by those of his secretary, Israel Regardie, who is far more wholesome. But the O T O and Thelema do not trigger my interest or sympathies.

[Austin Kelley]

True that Crowley did not end up interviewing Hess, though he was considered for the job. Also true that the author of The Book of Lies had a penchant for misrepresenting the truth...

I do think though that the influence of the OTO in California's psychedelic underground is significant somehow- and not just regarding Leary, Wilson and maybe, Manson. The question that interests me most, which Keith has alluded to previously, concerns to what degree this was all a spontaneous, grassroots phenomenon vs. a conspiracy orchestrated from on high...

[David Guyatt]

One possible answer to your question is that it was both.

The second half of the last century has clearly shown a developing trend of individual interest into what we might call spiritual subjects. It was only a hundred or so years earlier that religious thought was almost completely controlled by the established Church. Still earlier than that and any form of overt interest in the subject that did not include the intercession of an agent of the religious franchise of the day (the Vatican) often resulted in a terrible and agonizing death. In other words we have individuals more able and more willing to delve into these vital subjects without either fear of reprisal or being sent to social Coventry.

But at the same time we see elements of the intelligence community undertaking some really very weird projects. I feel sure that some of this, if not a large part, derived from the Nazi interest in the occult. Numerous former OSS men returned from WWII with a personal interest in these occult subjects. Those that I know of were very much on the political right. Indeed, they are to right of Attila the Hun, to use a well-known phrase. We can include in this such individuals as Jack Parsons, founding father of Nasa's JPL in Pasadena. Parsons comes from a line of Parsons who were deeply involved in the occult, notably the Satanic variant of it - the Hell Fire Club. This connects, of course, to Crowley who was Parsons master. And Parsons connects directly to nazis such as Werner von Braun and others brought to the US to oversee the development of advanced nazi technology. Space travel was very much something the Thule-ists wished to achieve. The Nazis also opened up the human mind for purposes of control. The US, and to a lesser extent the UK, simply took over this research and focused it more rigorously.

If I were pushed to draw a conclusion from this, I would say that what we are seeing is an even stronger pulse than before, of the ages old battle between the two great forces that control life and existence.

Of course, neither can win this battle, as the end of one is the end of the other. But the clash of these opposites causes - or can cause - greater human understanding. Supposing that is, that individuals are prepared to embrace the personal journey that is required.

But will they?

[Magda Hassan]

Austin, have you read Dave Mac Gowan's Laurel Canyon series of articles?
http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/
Its a mixed bag but very interesting.

[Austin Kelley]

Yes, I have. I think he's on the right trail but I also found the series very frustrating. After all many musicians could have had fathers with military backgrounds, given the times, to cite just one example. That said, I do think his series is chock-full of interesting tidbits for the discerning reader.

That said, I do agree that the American youth culture of the 60's was shaped by hidden forces- not completely controlled, but certainly shaped, to some degree...

[Austin Kelley]

Possibly this video has been mentioned here before, but it is certainly a very good educational tool on ARTICHOKE, Olson, Biowar, etc.:

Code Name: Artichoke - The CIA's Secret Experiments on Humans

[Jan Klimkowski]

Possibly this video has been mentioned here before, but it is certainly a very good educational tool on ARTICHOKE, Olson, Biowar, etc.:

Code Name: Artichoke - The CIA's Secret Experiments on Humans

Yup - it's on the DPF playlist:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/video_playlist.html

And discussed briefly here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...e#post9447

The documentary's insider witness testimony has been of course been ignored by both MSM and nearly all historians because not only does it demonstrate that Olson was murdered because he was planning to blow the whistle on unethical human experimentation but also that America probably used CBW munitions in the Korean War.

And MSM and western historians simply refuse to go there.

There's tangential, but possibly important material on Artichoke and MK-ULTRA here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...e#post4727

[Austin Kelley]

Thank you, Jan- the playlist is a great resource which I hadn't seen. And thanks to those who worked so hard and so well to make this all possible!

The last thread cited refers to three different MKULTRA sub-projects related to Hungarians. This made me think of something I stumbled upon regarding Hungarian anti-communist emigres employed at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California. One in particular, a prominent social psychologist, was helping the Boy Scouts of America to form pilot youth leadership groups back in the 50's and 60's, in secret partnership with the U.S. Army. It seems that they may have been studying group dynamics amongst the youth- especially leadership issues, and also the use of old European myths ("the White Stag") as ideals to motivate their test subjects.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Thank you, Jan- the playlist is a great resource which I hadn't seen. And thanks to those who worked so hard and so well to make this all possible!

Magda and Myra are the indefatigable duo who make DPF possible.

With regard to the DPF playlist, Magda should take a special bow. :handkiss:

The last thread cited refers to three different MKULTRA sub-projects related to Hungarians. This made me think of something I stumbled upon regarding Hungarian anti-communist emigres employed at the Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California. One in particular, a prominent social psychologist, was helping the Boy Scouts of America to form pilot youth leadership groups back in the 50's and 60's, in secret partnership with the U.S. Army. It seems that they may have been studying group dynamics amongst the youth- especially leadership issues, and also the use of old European myths ("the White Stag") as ideals to motivate their test subjects.

All of the post-WW2 eastern European refugee groups were of great interest to security services in the Cold War fight against the "Red Menace".

Some of those eastern Europeans were honourable men and women, who believed they were fighting for their "country".

However, thanks to Paperclip and other programmes, a substantial number of Nazis and fascists were brought to the West and south America - particularly Ukrainians, Croatians and Latvians - and recruited into covert and front programmes.

Gehlen and Gladio tentacles can be seen in the activities of certain branches of such as the Orthodox Catholic Church, and the wandering bishops who are of great interest to the likes of Peter Levenda, David Guyatt, Charles Drago and myself.

tickyman:

Did someone whisper Keyser Söze..... :listen: