Man shot dead in armed siege in West Yorkshir

[David Guyatt]

I'm posting this as a yet another case in a worrying trend of armed police killing in the UK.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/28/ukcrime

Man shot dead in armed siege in West Yorkshire

Police shoot dead gunman after overnight siege in West Yorkshire village
Officer wounded after man opened fire from doorstep

Martin Wainwright
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 28 December 2010 09.47 GMT

A gunman who wounded a police officer with a pistol was shot dead early this morning after an overnight siege.

Officers returned fire after the 42-year-old began a second round of shooting at 5.30am from an end-of-terrace house in the village of Kirkheaton, near Huddersfield in West Yorkshire.

The building had been surrounded since shortly after 10pm last night when officers called to question the man, who lived alone. He had allegedly made threats to the owner of a property nearby, but when he saw the police he fetched a handgun and opened fire from his doorstep.

West Yorkshire police said that a male constable was hit and suffered minor injuries. The man then retreated inside and fired again at intervals from a window.

Armed officers cordoned off Cockley Hill Lane, 100 yards from the centre of Kirkheaton, but did not evacuate neighbours because the position of the house was not thought likely to pose a threat. Attempts were made overnight to negotiate a peaceful end to the stand-off, but shooting broke out again this morning. The man was taken from the house by ambulance shortly before 6am but died shortly afterwards at Huddersfield Royal Infirmary.

A police spokesman said: "We regret that the incident at the house did not conclude peacefully as we had hoped and can confirm that the man taken to hospital from the address has now died. We are not in a position to name him at the moment."

A BBC cameraman at the scene said: "There were three loud bangs - possibly gunfire. Then the police started shouting and I heard them smashing glass as they went in to the house. They were shouting at the gunman to show them his hands."

A West Yorkshire police spokesman said: "Just after 10pm yesterday officers attended a domestic address in the Kirkheaton area of Huddersfield to arrest a man following an incident earlier in the day.

"The man produced a gun and fired at the officers. A male officer in his 20s was hit and attended hospital for minor injuries but has since been discharged."

Police had tried to resolve the situation peacefully, said the spokesman, although shots were "continually" fired at officers.

The man was named locally as Alistair Bell, described by neighbours as an unemployed loner with a history of suspected drug abuse.

Margaret Ainley, who lives on Cockley Hill Lane, said: "He was a bit of a troubled lad, there were problems with drugs I think. He never bothered me and would always wave if we crossed in the street.

"He didn't work, mind, and lived in the house on his own. His car has been abandoned in a field nearby, I've no idea what it's doing there."

Another woman who lives opposite the terrace and did not want to be named, said: "I'd gone to bed at about 9.30pm. I was lying there when I heard what I thought were shots being fired.

"I went downstairs and I saw there were lots of police in the street. I heard one of the officers calling for back-up on the radio.

"Next minute an officer was at the door telling us to stay inside and not to worry. We knew it was serious when the police helicopter turned up and kept on shining its beam on to the house.

"I didn't get much sleep at all last night with all this going on. I didn't see any of the shots being fired as I kept my head down after hearing the first few.

"I've seen the man who lives in the house around quite a bit. He tended to keep himself to himself though and seemed a bit of a loner."

Yorkshire Ambulance Service said it had deployed a Hazardous Area Response Team after the initial shootings at 10pm last night.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission has started an inquiry into the incident.

[Keith Millea]

David,
I don't think you can blame the police for this incident.The reality is if someone has a gun and is firing at the police,that someone should expect to be shot back at,and probably in a deadly manner.In cases like this,I wonder if the man was suicidal?

[Magda Hassan]

Maybe, but the thing about this is that the police in the UK are not armed as in the US. When there is a situation requiring an armed response there are specialist units which respond to those incidents. The officers are highly trained and they should be expected to disable an armed person effectively with out killing them. He would have run out of ammo eventually and he will have needed to sleep some time. There were no hostages involved. No time urgency. There has been an increase in the number of police shooting fatalities recently (think Menedez and the and one has to wonder if there has been an unannounced changed in policy or if the professionalism of the force is not meeting standards.

[David Guyatt]

Aye Maggie, all the points I was making.

We are becoming a state where the police now routinely carry weapons - which is something that goes against a proud tradition of well over 100 years of policing. We are becoming a state were the police will shoot to kill rather than shoot to disarm. In other words the surreptitious reintroduction of a form of capital punishment where no jury, no judge and no court weigh any evidence, but where police commanders issue a peremptory kill order.

One of the first steps in the breakdown of society is when the state so fears its pubic that it must intimidate them them by force. The hitherto sympathetic symbiosis between the governed and the governing, has irreparably broken down.

[Keith Millea]

Well,you've got a long way to go before you reach our standards.In the US the man would have had a minimum of 50 bullet holes.You know,just making sure he doesn't get up and cuss at the cops.....

[Peter Lemkin]

We are becoming a state where the police now routinely carry weapons - which is something that goes against a proud tradition of well over 100 years of policing. We are becoming a state were the police will shoot to kill rather than shoot to disarm. In other words the surreptitious reintroduction of a form of capital punishment where no jury, no judge and no court weigh any evidence, but where police commanders issue a peremptory kill order.

One of the first steps in the breakdown of society is when the state so fears its pubic that it must intimidate them them by force. The hitherto sympathetic symbiosis between the governed and the governing, has irreparably broken down.

Well,you've got a long way to go before you reach our standards.In the US the man would have had a minimum of 50 bullet holes.You know,just making sure he doesn't get up and cuss at the cops.....

The 'race' to the bottom of the moral cesspool......don't worry Keith, the Brits are trying hard and fast to catch up, but granted, they still have a way to go....but in BOTH countries there are the same trends.....don't wait it out....don't try to capture them an alive, don't try to use non-lethal means [of which they now have a whole ugly playpen full of], don't try to talk to him, don't wait until he runs out of ammo, don't get those he loves to talk to him......JUST KILL HIM...as if being upset at the 'system', going insane in an insane society, and/or having a gun is DE FACTO reason for execution...period! Next case!...angryfire These are the rules of engagement in a war...not among civilian populations in peacetime.....but I think that is key. While the Publics and Sheeple in US and UK think they are not at WAR; those who run the countries are sure they ARE AT WAR, and act accordingly! Perhaps most frighteningly, is just who they think the 'enemy' is.....anyone and everyone!....and the darker, poorer, less like the 'average', and less 'well-bred' (cough!) the more enemy-like is the everyman and everywoman. Intimidation is the name of the game. Shut-up, consume, give us your money, and die!

These are the conditions that eventually lead to the breakdown of polities [in full agreement on those points David!]...they in fact lead inevitably to police states or revolutions.

Let us hope.....which one we get..or, rather, which one we are willing to FIGHT FOR!!!!!

[David Guyatt]

Well,you've got a long way to go before you reach our standards.In the US the man would have had a minimum of 50 bullet holes.You know,just making sure he doesn't get up and cuss at the cops.....

Here you go Keith - the shape of things arriving:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/new...-time.html

Machine-gun police set to patrol Brit streets

By ANTHONY FRANCE
Crime Reporter
Published: 23 Oct 2009

COPS armed with machine-guns are to patrol the streets on foot in a revolutionary move for British policing.
The specialist squad will be permanently assigned to hotspots plagued by gun-toting drug gangs.

It is the first time in the UK that armed officers have been put on permanent patrol.

The cops - some on motorbikes - will carry Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine-guns capable of firing up to 800 rounds-per-minute and Glock 17 semi-automatic pistols.

Critics say the Met Police move brings us a step closer to the day when all Britain's police have guns.

The new unit is targeting the most dangerous areas in London to end turf wars between rival gangs.

The team - of 18 constables, an inspector and two sergeants - have been hand-picked by top brass at CO19, the Met's Specialist Firearm Command branch.

Notorious

Patrols will start from November 9 after a series of trial runs on notorious estates in Brixton and Tottenham.

Inspector Derek Carroll, who leads the unit, said: "Historically CO19 was only called out when someone rang to report a gun crime.

"But young people in 'postcode gangs' - aged 14 and up - are controlling areas of estates in parts of London.

"We will look at gangs that have access to firearms and will be robust in dealing with them."

Gun crime in London is rocketing with 1,736 cases between April and September this year - 252 more than in the same period last year.

The number of "war wound" shootings - in which gang members blast rivals' legs for "disrespecting" them - has more than doubled.

In October 2000, cops on the beat in Nottingham were temporarily given guns after a string of drug-linked shootings.

****

In the below story, the reason given is the London Olympics. But, this is, of course, a "thin edge of the wedge" rationale. These squads will not stand down after the Olympics. By then they'll be fully entrenched:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/police-machine-gun-squads-for-britain/story-e6frf7jx-1225945812696

Police machine gun squads for Britain

October 31, 2010 2:45PM

PARAMILITARY police squads armed with machine guns that can fire 750 rounds a minute will be set up across Britain to tackle the threat of a Mumbai-style terror attack in the run-up to the London Olympics.

In a move that will change the face of British policing, chief constables have agreed to buy several hundred Heckler & Koch G36 machine guns to arm the new units.

The squads will be composed of marksmen hand-picked from forces and will be attached to units in London, Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester and other regional centers. They will be on stand-by for 24 hours a day to deal with any attempts to replicate the raid by 10 gunmen on Mumbai in November 2008 in which 174 people died.

As well as terrorists they will be called out to incidents such as that involving Derrick Bird, the taxi driver who killed 12 people in Cumbria this summer before shooting himself.

The move follows months of Whitehall wrangling. Some regional chiefs had been reluctant to back the plan, fearing it would transform the image of the British bobby. But it has the backing of Prime Minister David Cameron, who is said to have taken a close interest in how to address the terrorist threat.

The machine guns are being deployed by the German and Spanish armies and have been used in counterinsurgency missions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

They have a range of 800m and can be fitted with a grenade-launcher. They will supplement the current model used by British police which is configured to fire a single round at a time.

The network will be under the control of local chief constables. But in a national emergency such as a terrorist assault they will be overseen by a new national co-ordinator based at Scotland Yard.

The anti-terrorist firearms response teams will mirror the half-dozen or so regional counterterrorist hubs set up after the July 2005 London bombings in which 52 people died.

[David Guyatt]

Continuing the "of things to come" theme:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/29...rch-powers

Police demand new powers to stop and search terror suspects
Top officers tell government they want to replace section 44 law that was scrapped by human rights ruling

guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 29 December 2010 21.00 GMT

Police say they need a boost to their counter-terrorism powers, which they worry are now too weak. Photograph: Martin Godwin
Police have asked the government for a new counter-terrorism power to stop and search people without having to suspect them of involvement in crime, the Guardian has learned.

Senior officers have told the government the new law is needed to better protect the public against attempted attacks on large numbers of people, and are hopeful they can win ministers' backing.

A previous law allowing counter-terrorism stops without suspicion, section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000, was scrapped this year by the home secretary, Theresa May, after European judges struck it down for breaching human rights.

But police, including the Metropolitan force, which leads the UK fight against terrorism, say they need a boost to their counter-terrorism powers, which they worry are now too weak.

They have asked for a law which would be much more limited than section 44. It would be restricted to a specific period of time and to a limited geographic area or a specific place or event.

The new stop and search power would need primary legislation to become law and it is believed it could be introduced within months. Police believe it will be needed to protect events such as the 2012 Olympics in London, state occasions such as trooping the colour, and major summits such as the G20 when they are held in the UK.

Stop and search powers are controversial because ethnic minority people have been targeted more than white people, triggering claims that some officers are using them in a discriminatory way.

A source with knowledge of the discussions told the Guardian: "The key thing is to get this power without its use being random. You can't have a random power because of the judgment, but some new power is needed. The power would need to be signed off by a senior officer, maybe even a chief constable, and the home secretary. It could cover an event of high importance such as the Olympics. It would be for a limited time and in a limited geographical place, and at a time when the threat level is severe."

Currently section 43 of the Terrorism Act allows searches, but an officer must have reasonable suspicion for the stop to be lawful. The source added that police were now tactically hampered in the fight against terrorism.

Another source with knowledge of the plans said: "Everyone now realises it [section 44] was a blunt instrument. If it is time-limited, it should comply with the European ruling."

The issue of powers to fight terrorism that infringe on civil liberties is causing friction within the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition. A review of counter-terrorism powers has already been delayed after a row over whether control orders should be retained.

Section 44 fell into disrepute because it is believed that it failed to lead to the capture of a single terrorist, and it was used in some cases against protesters and photographers. It was struck down by the European court of human rights after a case brought by Liberty, the civil liberties pressure group.

In that case, police had used the counter-terrorism power against a peace protester, Kevin Gillan, and a journalist, Pennie Quinton, as they travelled to a demonstration outside the annual arms fair at the ExCel centre in east London in 2003.

The crucial aspect of the ruling, and thus the hurdle any new power must clear, is not to be random and indiscriminate in its scope. Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, said that with the right safeguards her organisation might not oppose the new power: "The devil will be in the detail. What safeguards will there be, who can trigger the power, what is the threshold for turning it on, what public scrutiny will there be?"

Under the old power all of London was designated for months on end as a place where police could stop people without suspicion. Chakrabarti said: "The geographical area can't be an entire county or all of London as it was before, but an area no greater than a square mile. It must not be for months on end but for a specific period of 24 to 48 hours.

"It must target specific places, not classes of people, on the basis of intelligence and risk for narrow windows of time, with adequate authorisation and transparency. Then it will satisfy proportionality and equal treatment whilst providing a rational, flexible aid to anti-terror policing."

Ben Bowling, a professor of criminology at King's College London and founder member of Stopwatch, which campaigns against alleged police abuses of stop and search powers, warned the new power could be used to discriminate against ethnic minority Britons: "Where officers have the maximum discretion, that is where you have the greatest racial discrimination in the way police have used their powers. We would want to be absolutely certain that police are not targeting ethnic minority communities for unfair stops and searches."

The debate about the proposed new power will be shaped by the memory of section 44. Some police leaders now accept they were too slow to realise the damage it was doing to community relations and to their own reputation, while proving of questionable value in catching terrorists. In 2009 more than 100,000 stops were carried out under section 44, but not a single arrest was made for terrorism under the power.

Britain is facing a double terror threat for the first time in a decade. Counter-terrorism officials believe the risk of attack from al-Qaida-inspired violent extremists is "severe".

But added to that, officials assess as "substantial" the risk of an attack on the mainland by dissident republican terrorists. That is one level lower than the threat posed by Islamist violence. Northern Ireland has this year been hit by repeated terrorist attacks and attempted attacks, one source said, as the capability of dissident republican terrorists grows.

(my bolding) I think it far more likely that Britain is facing increased public disobedience following the stringent budget measures and the protection of the international banks strategy of robbing the many to support the few.

[Magda Hassan]

I think they have too many 'anti terrorism' powers anyway. And that is since the IRA bombing days not sine 9/11 or 7/7.

[Peter Lemkin]

Continuing the "of things to come" theme:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/29...rch-powers



(my bolding) I think it far more likely that Britain is facing increased public disobedience following the stringent budget measures and the protection of the international banks strategy of robbing the many to support the few.

Its for your own protection, David!...after all!
Its amazing how in nine short years the 'war on [of] terrorism' has wiped the slates of many nations clean of personal rights, freedom of speech, the People''s money, Peace, and democracy.......quite a demonic invention taken right out of the Third Reich's recipe book on how to bake a fascist nation. :mexican: Hmmm......what's that I smell burning in the 'kitchen'....oh its just the Magna Carta and the Constitution.....not to worry. Dinnertime! Everyone line up for a full body search first. 'May I see your papers?'

In the USA the latest fascist inroad of the day has been the introduction of a device that can read your car's license plate from a great distance even at night and automatically puts it through the TIA computer [which was officially disbanded] to see who you are and if you are wanted for unPatriotic crimes. In most US cities Police already have the authority to stop and search you if they have any suspicion you are doing or are X, Y, Z. They sometimes even do summary executions, as well. [and almost always get off scott free!]

I fear the British Sheeple will get used to it, just as the Amerisheeple have. Its getting Baaaaa baaaa baaaad! Unless we have an 'Animal Farm' rebellion.

N.B. Stops carried out under section 44 of the Terrorism Act 2000 have already been dropped after the European court of human rights struck them down. Last year over 100,000 stops were carried out under section 44, without police making a single arrest for terrorism. So they'll just write as section 45 or 46 or......