Libya : A no lie zone

[Albert Doyle]

There certainly are good Arabs and bad Arabs, and a mean, cut-throat steak runs through their blood, as exhibited by the public executions of those who opposed the Gadhafi regime from the very day it seized power.

While I agree there is a hand-chopping and throat-slitting primitiveness to traditional Islamic culture it isn't that much different in effect than carpet bombing or nuclear slaughter. You could actually argue that our violence is much worse by objective scale overall. Plus, don't forget we have our own covert throat-slitters in CIA and other private mercenary forces. It's all a matter of how you look at it I guess. Our democratic 'sharia' has a much higher body count.

As far as "good arabs and bad arabs" there is more than a modicum of hypocrisy in the arabs we propagandize against and those we support and team with. For instance, both Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were closely supplied US/CIA assets. The US is not soft-handed with those who oppose it.

How do you know they've traded one dictatorship for another? They say they were fighting and dying (35,000+) for democracy, and they haven't formulated a constitution yet. Have you ever written a constitution?

We'll see how they are allowed to voice opposition to either the US or Israel. Democracy and its definition vary, as does what is claimed in its name. For instance the US war crime invasion of Iraq was also justified with claims of democracy. In case you aren't aware the US already has a history of installing pro-US regimes in the Middle East.

And how is the CIA a rogue power? I thought it was acting on US government policy and administrative orders?

You're not serious? I recommend you read on this site. This type of proxy regime change is exactly what Kennedy fought, and is also exactly what got him killed. I recommend you pay attention to the level of democracy HERE in America while your attention is being drawn overseas.

The CIA is the whipping boy for all those who sprout ideological nonsense.

"Ideological nonsense"? You mean like international law, UN rules, Geneva Conventions, US Constitution, the founding fathers torture repudiation etc etc? Those poor innocent JFK, RFK, MLK, and Lennon-murdering CIA lambs.

And how did the CIA illegally forment arab "revolutions"? The CIA not only didn't forment the Arab revolutions, they didn't anticipate them, predict them or even recognize the revolt was happening in Tunisia until a week or more after it was sparked by the self-immolation of Mohamid Bouazizi on Dec. 17, 2010. Show me a link between Bouasisi and the CIA and you will convince me.

Mmm hhh. Forget the fighter support, weapons supply, tactical assistance etc. No, this isn't phase II of the War On Terror. Couldn't be. Call Langley and ask them. Oh, by the way, the WMD was based on bad intel...

And the CIA isn't killing foreign leaders with impunity but has a list of those it is authorized to capture or kill. And I hope Joseph Kony is on that list.

Of course not. We can just forget the whole basis of the HSCA or how it caused a new law forbidding CIA from doing exactly that (which they now seem to see as 'irrelevant'). How many JFK's does one Joseph Kony buy???

By the way, look at the longevity record of past leaders who cooperated with CIA or were targets of US interest. It ain't too good.

Let's see, Bin Laden, killed 3,000 people on 9/11, American Al Qaeda in Yemen who threatened and tried to mass murder Americans, and who else?

I know it was CIA. I'm dead serious when I say I could tell you something that would blow your mind that I know directly that CIA was behind 9-11. It's so dangerous I can't speak of it. There's absolutely no doubt CIA killed 3000 Americans in order to induce the PNAC. CIA (or some removed, convoluted deep form of them) murders American citizens and presidents. I leave it up to you to figure what that makes people who defend them. The sooner CIA is eradicated from America the healthier our democracy will become.

Gadhafi's car might have been hit by a CIA Predator Drone, but he was killed by his "sons," his own Libyan people, and for good reasons, though I would have preferred a trail and legal execution.

What do you call the Iraqi "sons" who defended their country against an illegal CIA war?

I don't think the CIA does anything in the name of democracy. Democracy isn't their mission.

There's really nothing to say past this is there? This is something I fear more and more Americans don't fear saying, or understand the dire implications of, or its affect on democracy.

[Peter Lemkin]

They are now letting the public in to view Gadaffi's rotting corpse and letting them all [thousands, perhaps tens of thousands] take photos of it....it was shown on Al Jazerra. Two other bodies lie in the room [a large walk-in meat freezer], but no one is paying any attention except to the body of Gadaffi. For this they have apparently delayed the burial. Circus Maximus.

[Bill Kelly]

There certainly are good Arabs and bad Arabs, and a mean, cut-throat steak runs through their blood, as exhibited by the public executions of those who opposed the Gadhafi regime from the very day it seized power.

While I agree there is a hand-chopping and throat-slitting primitiveness to traditional Islamic culture it isn't that much different in effect than carpet bombing or nuclear slaughter. You could actually argue that our violence is much worse by objective scale overall. Plus, don't forget we have our own covert throat-slitters in CIA and other private mercenary forces. It's all a matter of how you look at it I guess. Our democratic 'sharia' has a much higher body count.

As far as "good arabs and bad arabs" there is more than a modicum of hypocrisy in the arabs we propagandize against and those we support and team with. For instance, both Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were closely supplied US/CIA assets. The US is not soft-handed with those who oppose it.

BK: If they were so closely supplied US/CIA assets then why did we kill them?

How do you know they've traded one dictatorship for another? They say they were fighting and dying (35,000+) for democracy, and they haven't formulated a constitution yet. Have you ever written a constitution?

We'll see how they are allowed to voice opposition to either the US or Israel. Democracy and its definition vary, as does what is claimed in its name. For instance the US war crime invasion of Iraq was also justified with claims of democracy. In case you aren't aware the US already has a history of installing pro-US regimes in the Middle East.

BK: The question is what Libya's policy will be towards Israel but whether they will allow the 1500 year old Jewish community to return to Tripoli. The invasion of Iraq was a crime, but I don't remember installing democracy as being a justification, only mythical WMD. Yes, we installed Shah in Iran thanks to CIA's Kim Roosevelt, and supported Israel, Mubarak in Egypt and who else did they install?

And how is the CIA a rogue power? I thought it was acting on US government policy and administrative orders?

You're not serious? I recommend you read on this site. This type of proxy regime change is exactly what Kennedy fought, and is also exactly what got him killed. I recommend you pay attention to the level of democracy HERE in America while your attention is being drawn overseas.

BK: The CIA isn't a monolithic organization, it's full of just ordinary Americans, as Angleton said, "A house has many rooms," and if you blame everything on the CIA and think the CIA is one big monster, you are being ideological in your view of them. JFK said, "If peaceful revolution is prevented then violent revolution is inevitable," and there is no way that he would back the dictators of Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Iran, Bahrain, Yemen and Syira against the uprising of their people. If he had the choice, the choice between good and evil in Libya would have been easy, and he would not have supported Gadhafi. Democracy in the USA, via the two party system, is a sham, I have not participated since 1968, and you are not in a position to tell me what I should pay attention to.

"Ideological nonsense"? You mean like international law, UN rules, Geneva Conventions, US Constitution, the founding fathers torture repudiation etc etc? Those poor innocent JFK, RFK, MLK, and Lennon-murdering CIA lambs.

BK: The CIA is a scapegoat in the murder of JFK, as I believe the evidence indicates it was done by the US military intelligence, and JFK and RFK were no lambs.

Mmm hhh. Forget the fighter support, weapons supply, tactical assistance etc. No, this isn't phase II of the War On Terror. Couldn't be. Call Langley and ask them. Oh, by the way, the WMD was based on bad intel...

BK: As the Libyans say, God bless NATO for their protection of Benghazi and the eastern cities who revolted, and may God have mercy on those who died at Misratah and other liberated cities that Gadhafi laid seige to and leveled before NATO got involved. No, this isn't a war on terror, its a war against tyranny and dictators. "Death to Tyrants" was the battle cry when the US marines went to Tripoli in 1804 and it is the battle cry of the new Arab revolution. As for WMD, I do pay attention to it here rather than having my attention drawn overseas.....
Whitedeercafe: Weapons of Mass Destruction in My Backyard

Of course not. We can just forget the whole basis of the HSCA or how it caused a new law forbidding CIA from doing exactly that (which they now seem to see as 'irrelevant'). How many JFK's does one Joseph Kony buy???

BK: Joseph Kony is a mass rapist and mass murder who should be tracked down and executed.

By the way, look at the longevity record of past leaders who cooperated with CIA or were targets of US interest. It ain't too good.

BK: Yes, we betrayed Hamid Karamanli in 1805, the Hungarians in 1948, the Cubans in 1961, the Vietnamese in 1972, Sadam in 1992 and Bin Laden and Gadhafi in 2011. I'm sure glad I'm not in bed with them.

Let's see, Bin Laden, killed 3,000 people on 9/11, American Al Qaeda in Yemen who threatened and tried to mass murder Americans, and who else?

I know it was CIA. I'm dead serious when I say I could tell you something that would blow your mind that I know directly that CIA was behind 9-11. It's so dangerous I can't speak of it. There's absolutely no doubt CIA killed 3000 Americans in order to induce the PNAC. CIA (or some removed, convoluted deep form of them) murders American citizens and presidents. I leave it up to you to figure what that makes people who defend them. The sooner CIA is eradicated from America the healthier our democracy will become.

BK: The CIA isn't the problem, they are just an arm of the federal government and if cut off another arm will spring up. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying they're not the Boogie Man you are making them out to be.

Gadhafi's car might have been hit by a CIA Predator Drone, but he was killed by his "sons," his own Libyan people, and for good reasons, though I would have preferred a trail and legal execution.

What do you call the Iraqi "sons" who defended their country against an illegal CIA war?

BK: How is Libya an illegal CIA war? The CIA had nothing to do with it, other than supply Predator Drones after the battle had begun. They didn't even do their job by calling attention to the problem before it became a crisis and failed to predict a region wide revolution even as it was happening. Show me how the CIA had anything to do with the Libyan revolution, please.

I don't think the CIA does anything in the name of democracy. Democracy isn't their mission.

There's really nothing to say past this is there? This is something I fear more and more Americans don't fear saying, or understand the dire implications of, or its affect on democracy.

BK: What the CIA does has no affect on democracy in the USA or anywhere.

[Albert Doyle]

BK: If they were so closely supplied US/CIA assets then why did we kill them?

Well, that's exactly the point I'm making. We killed them because they detected America had a corrupted CIA government. Once these people get familiar with CIA-type government they gain contempt for it and try to emulate it. The US then turns on these people when they act in their own interests. There is a long list in history of the US doing this to foreign leaders who worked with them. And the CIA is usually the one that delivers the blow. HSCA sensed this and acted upon it.

The invasion of Iraq was a crime, but I don't remember installing democracy as being a justification, only mythical WMD.

So what's your point? The Middle East is now a CIA/Mossad free for all because the US doesn't have to worry about driving arabs to the Soviets like Kennedy did.

BK: The CIA isn't a monolithic organization, it's full of just ordinary Americans, as Angleton said, "A house has many rooms," and if you blame everything on the CIA and think the CIA is one big monster, you are being ideological in your view of them. JFK said, "If peaceful revolution is prevented then violent revolution is inevitable," and there is no way that he would back the dictators of Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Iran, Bahrain, Yemen and Syira against the uprising of their people. If he had the choice, the choice between good and evil in Libya would have been easy, and he would not have supported Gadhafi. Democracy in the USA, via the two party system, is a sham, I have not participated since 1968, and you are not in a position to tell me what I should pay attention to.

That's just excuse-making. CIA is responsible for what happens under its roof. It's part of their strategy of plausible deniability to say there are rogue members who can't be held to account. Again, I fail to see what point you are making? If you haven't participated in American Democracy then CIA and its evils are certainly the worst embodiment of what you are defying. So you are resisting them and endorsing them at the same time.

BK: The CIA is a scapegoat in the murder of JFK, as I believe the evidence indicates it was done by the US military intelligence, and JFK and RFK were no lambs.

You're not serious? Read 'JFK And The Unspeakable'. JFK was most certainly a lamb whose throat was ripped-out by treasonous CIA wolves. Your comment is practically an endorsement of that.

"Death to Tyrants" was the battle cry when the US marines went to Tripoli in 1804 and it is the battle cry of the new Arab revolution. As for WMD, I do pay attention to it here rather than having my attention drawn overseas.....

The list is much much longer than that. The only problem with Teddy Roosevelt-era propaganda is that we are now the tyrants shooting cruise missiles at defenseless dusty arab countries while a cowardly Congress sits and watches a rogue military it is no longer in control of. All this being done in defense of a nation that is basically a CIA police state with a rogue military-ruled government in contempt of its own people, Constitution, and democracy. Forget international law - that's "irrelevant".

BK: Joseph Kony is a mass rapist and mass murder who should be tracked down and executed.

You're not answering the question. How many JFK's does one Joseph Kony buy? We killed one Hitler and got one CIA in return (and therefore a weaker democracy). Get the point?

BK: The CIA isn't the problem, they are just an arm of the federal government and if cut off another arm will spring up. I'm not defending them, I'm just saying they're not the Boogie Man you are making them out to be.

Mmm hhh. If you ignore the fact they murdered president Kennedy and their current effect on American democracy - I guess.

BK: How is Libya an illegal CIA war? The CIA had nothing to do with it,

I believe that as much as I believe Oswald was a lone nut and the WMD were bad intel. These arab "revolutions" are phase II in the War On Terror designed to destabilize arab power in their own countries in CIA's main area of concern in the world. If you think they're not involved you're naive or deliberately in denial.

There's another country in the world where the citizens are in the streets trying to change the government. Think of which country that is and what CIA's role will be in that democratic movement.

BK: What the CIA does has no affect on democracy in the USA or anywhere.

HA HA HA! Kennedy might differ. I think you don't detect the rich irony in what you say...

[Bill Kelly]

I have read James Douglas's JFK & The Unspeakable and reviewed it in 2008, JFKcountercoup: JFK and the Unspeakable.

I have also been studying the history of American-Libyan relations for quite some time Remember the Intrepid

kept up close track of the Arab Revolt Revolutionary Program since it began, and there was no CIA involvement
in the origins of the revolutions in Tunisia or Libya, unless you can point them out to me. The first cover action
I know of was the French delivery of small arms to the Berber rebels after the NATO involvement led to a stalemate
on the eastern front.

Blaming the CIA for the Dealey Plaza operation is simply blaming another acronym organization that can't
be held responsible for its actions.

My approach to the assassination is more direct, as I consider it a homicide that can and will be solved to a legal
and moral certainty.

Attempting to pin the murder on any acronym organization is a cop-out that allows the real killers to go free.

BK
JFKcountercoup

[Albert Doyle]

Blaming the CIA for the Dealey Plaza operation is simply blaming another acronym organization that can't
be held responsible for its actions.

The way I see it is people are afraid to confront the real culprit here. The exonerating of the greater CIA is a means by which to avoid psychologically recognizing that the real killers were directly shielded and supported by the main CIA. I think you've done a good enough job at avoiding my points to show that. The direct interests of CIA and its military/conservative members are too perfectly in synch with the amorphous "real killers" to be separated. The avoidance of identifying CIA grinds against the already established close relationship of the cabal and its members to CIA and its interests. Even Mark Lane is now openly identifying CIA as the culprit.


The month before the Libya no-fly attack US tried to sell Gadhafi 77 million in weapons. By definition that makes them accomplices to what they were calling a "mad dog" a month later. You or I as normal citizens would be subjected to draconian punishments similar to that which sellers of arms to Iran presently receive. However what the US Government receives is help in covering this up from its corporate media. It's a process similar to what is being done with CIA and its role in Kennedy's assassination.

[Bill Kelly]

Blaming the CIA for the Dealey Plaza operation is simply blaming another acronym organization that can't
be held responsible for its actions.

The way I see it is people are afraid to confront the real culprit here. The exonerating of the greater CIA is a means by which to avoid psychologically recognizing that the real killers were directly shielded and supported by the main CIA. I think you've done a good enough job at avoiding my points to show that. The direct interests of CIA and its military/conservative members are too perfectly in synch with the amorphous "real killers" to be separated. The avoidance of identifying CIA grinds against the already established close relationship of the cabal and its members to CIA and its interests. Even Mark Lane is now openly identifying CIA as the culprit.


The month before the Libya no-fly attack US tried to sell Gadhafi 77 million in weapons. By definition that makes them accomplices to what they were calling a "mad dog" a month later. You or I as normal citizens would be subjected to draconian punishments similar to that which sellers of arms to Iran presently receive. However what the US Government receives is help in covering this up from its corporate media. It's a process similar to what is being done with CIA and its role in Kennedy's assassination.

No one is covering up the CIA's role in the assassination. Salandria said it from the get go, Garrison said it, you say it, all I'm saying is that just because the MO is identified as a covert op doesn't mean the CIA was behind it, as it could have been ONI or Army G2 or a combo of all three - a Joint Op, and my approach is to follow the evidence to the culprets and not to pin point a suspect and try to pin the tail on the donkey.

As for selling arms to Libya, I learned that from the mainstream media when Sen. John McCain went there and later wiki leaks confirmed it with the intside memos. Now McCain is a friend of the rebels, but he wouldn't sell them any arms.

BK

[Magda Hassan]

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[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]NATO Sponsored Atrocities: "Responsibility to Protect" the "Liberation" of Sirte


by Human Rights Investigations

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[TD="colspan: 2, align: left"]Human Rights Investigations
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According to NATO figures, coalition aircraft delivered 415 key strikes on the town of Sirte between Sunday 28th August and Thursday 20th October. We have compared this to the bombing of Guernica and other comparisons have been made to the widely condemned levelling of Grozny.
In addition, the rebels, described in NATO circles as a proxy army" were allowed by NATO to indiscriminately shell the town with tank fire, heavy mortar fire and artillery. Here is some footage from the Information Office of the Misrata Mujahid Battalion' to illustrate the point:

And here is more footage, taken in September, showing heavy mortar and rocket fire into the town. It is crystal clear that NATO, who were patrolling the skies above and bombing the town, purportedly to protect civilians, were making no attempt to protect the civilians of Sirte from this indiscriminate use of heavy weaponry:

NATO has declined to comment on why it did nothing to protect the civilians of Sirte and why it has been complicit in these war crimes.
As rebel infantry moved in on the destroyed centre of Sirte, the footage below shows that the civilian infrastructure of Sirte, including its buildings, water and sanitation systems, had been totally destroyed:

And here is more footage of the town showing the extent of the destruction, it appears from this video that every building has been targeted in a systematic attempt to ensure the town is uninhabitable:

Atrocities in Sirte
In what should be the final death-blow to the notion that NATO air power combined with undisciplined and in some cases genocidal mobs supplied with NATO weaponry on the ground can effectively protect' a civilian population it has become clear that fifty-three people were summarily executed by the rebels in the garden of the Mahari hotel in Sirte.
Ironically the bodies were found by Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch. Some of the bodies had their hands bound behind their backs when they were shot. In addition, some of the bodies had bandages over serious wounds, suggesting they had been treated for other injuries prior to being executed, a stark reminder of the earlier murderous rampage of the rebels through the Abu Saleem hospital in Tripoli.
Sirte residents identified four of the dead as residents of Sirte: Ezzidin al-Hinsheri (a government official), Muftah Dabroun (a military officer), Amar Mahmoud Saleh and Muftah al-Deley (both civilians).
Some of the victims had been in Ibn Sina Hospital in Sirte, after being treated for injuries the same hospital which was treating the children with the horrific injuries we covered in an earlier report.
On the walls of the hotel were the names of the following Misrata brigades: the "Tiger Brigade" (Al-Nimer), the "Support Brigade" (Al-Isnad), the Jaguar Brigade (Al-Fahad), the Lion Brigade (Al-Asad), and the Citadel Brigade (Al-Qasba). Misrata brigades have already been responsible for the ethnic cleansing of Misrata and genocide of the Tawergha.
Meanwhile, Red Cross officials have said they have found two hundred and sixty-seven dead in Sirte, most of whom they believe were killed late on Thursday the day of liberation.
Bodies of victims in Sirte


As HRW point out, violence and murder, inflicted during an armed conflict on combatants who have laid down their arms or are in detention, is a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC). The ICC has jurisdiction in Libya for all crimes within its mandate committed since February 15, 2011. Under the court's treaty, criminal liability applies to both those who physically commit the crimes and to senior officials, including those who give the orders and those in a position of command who should have been aware of the abuses but failed to prevent them or to report or prosecute those responsible.
As Peter Bouckaert says:
"This latest massacre seems part of a trend of killings, looting, and other abuses committed by armed anti-Gaddafi fighters who consider themselves above the law."
The ICC prosecutor has not pursued action against pro-NATO forces, in fact he has been involved in spreading propaganda and inciting racial hatred during the conflict. Furthermore, the NTC leadership are deeply implicated in the attacks on the civilian population of Sirte. Mustafa Abdel Jalil visited the brigades laying siege to the town on 11 October and declared that:
"You have the support of all the members of the transitional council."
In addition, Mahmoud Jibril infamously gave the green light to the permanent ethnic cleansing of Tawergha by the Misrata brigades at a meeting in Misrata Town Hall.
Currently what is left of Sirte is being thoroughly looted with flat-bed trucks loading up cars and personal possessions to take back to Misrata.
Meanwhile, according to the BBC's Wyre Davies reporting from Sirte, the town will be the last in Libya to be reconstructed or may not be rebuilt at all "but instead left in its destroyed crumbling state as a memorial to Colonel Gaddafi's victims."
The Responsibility to Protect
It is clear that the responsibility to protect' (R2P) doctrine has been hi-jacked by NATO and its supporters as a justification for its military campaigns and has lost its humanitarian content, becoming little more than a weapon in the propaganda war to draw ill-informed citizens into consent for military action.
A genuine responsibility to protect (GR2P) needs to protect people from the ravages of war, in which the most egregious human rights violations usually occur, and needs to be particularly conscious of R2P as a reincarnation of the "white man's burden" and as justification for NATO imperialism and military adventurism.

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[Magda Hassan]

Yep, and the Poles should pay Germany for 'liberating' them too.

Libya 'should repay UK military'

21 October 2011


The UK should ask Libya to repay the £300m cost of British intervention in the country following the death of Colonel Gaddafi, a leading Tory MP has said.

Daniel Kawczynski, chairman of the all-party group for Libya, said the UK's contribution to the removal of the Gaddafi regime was "immense", and was conducted despite difficult economic conditions at home.

In Parliament earlier this month it was revealed the cost of Operation Ellamy had risen to £300m, and independent analysis has said it could be as high as £1.75bn

Writing for sister site PublicService.co.uk, Kawczynski said that the concept of countries repaying outsiders for military intervention was "not without precedent".

"Following the liberation of Kuwait in the first Gulf War, the British government received over £2bn from other nations to cover operational costs with a significant contribution by Kuwait herself," he said.

"Furthermore, Libya is clearly not a country without means. We should not forget that in helping to free the people of Libya from oppression, we have also helped free an economy rich in natural resources that exported over $34bn worth of oil products in 2009 and had a GDP estimated at over $85bn.

"In the past, freedom has been paid for with blood and gold. The timely intervention by our government and the international community saved many innocent lives, but the action came at a cost, and this cost has been born by the hard pressed British taxpayer.

"In these difficult economic times, it should not be too much to ask a country with Libya's wealth and resources to pay their share of the gold."

Some 2,300 British military personnel were deployed at the peak of Operation Ellamy, along with 22 fast jets which conducted 3,000 sorties, including a fifth of all NATO airstrikes.

Eight warships attacked targets on shore as well as enforcing the UN arms embargo and securing the delivery of aid.

Kawczyinski's full comments appear on sister site PublicService.co.uk.
http://www.defencemanagement.com/news_st...p?id=17791

[Bill Kelly]

Why are the people of Syria now calling for NATO to help them after more than 3,000 of their citizens were killed by the military and police crackdown since the demonstrations began over six months ago?

How can you take the NATO bombings of Sirte out of the context of the Libyan and Arab revolution and ignore the fact that they were a reactionary response to the attempt by Gadhafi to kill all those who opposed him, as he had done for the previous 42 years?

Where was the outrage when Gadhafi forces randomly bombarded and sent rockets and mortar rounds into Misratha, killing thousand of innocent civilians?

Where was the international outrage when the people of Misratha were under a three months long siege that destroyed their city, the third largest in Libya?

Those who complain today of the NATO bombing of Libya were silent when Gadhafi's forces butchered the people of Zawiya, Misratha, Brega and were on the way to massacre all the "rats" of Benghazi, as Gadhafi ordered them to do in a broadcast on international TV? And his forces were in the process of following his orders when the NATO planes stopped them a few miles from their goal.

It was mainly rebel fighters from Misratha who "liberated" Sirte by destroying it, just as their city was destroyed a few months earlier by the soldiers and mercenaries who "defended" Sirte, and it was probably men from Mistratha who killed Gadhafi, just as his son and their soldiers had killed many of the people of Mistratha.

The cost of the NATO incursion in Libya was minor in comparison to the invasion, conquest and ten year occupation of Iraq, as there were no NATO casualities, the civilian casualities they caused were minor, the mission lasted six months and was successful.

Those who still criticize the NATO mission in Libya should have started paying attention earlier, as what NATO did there is now being used as a model for future missions in similar circumstances.

If you would like to review the revolution from the beginning, I have archived many of the most pertinent news reports and opeds, including those who criticized NATO, at my blog, which I began two days before the Libyan revolution began in February.

Those who are against the use of all military force any time anywhere allow bully dictators like Gadhafi to get away with murder.

Now that's three dictators down in six months - one in exile, one in jail and one buried in the desert. Who's next? Syria, Bahrain, Yemen?

Those who ignore the revolution current raging are doomed not to understand how it will one day affect them.

Bill Kelly
Revolutionary Program