JFK: What we know now that we didn't know then

[James H. Fetzer]

No, you are not in deep water. You have simply misunderstood the conception of Lyndon as "mastermind". If you read the exchanges on this and related threads, you will see that you are in good company, because even some of the more astute members of this forum have displayed similar or very comparable cognitive difficulty.

As James Douglass explains in JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, Jack had antagonized some of the most powerful special interest groups in this country, including the CIA, the Joint Chiefs, the Eastern banking establishment, the Mafia, anti-Castro Cubans, and even the Joint Chiefs, all of whom, for different reasons, wanted him out.

LBJ was the one player who was connected with all of these disparate interests. He had forced his way onto the ticket in order to ascend to the nation's highest office. You really want to read LBJ: MASTERMIND OF JFK'S ASSASSINATION to grasp the profound ambition and ruthless character of Lyndon Baines Johnson.

He schmoozed with the Secret Service, he undermined JFK's policies, he worked his connections with political leaders in Dallas, including Earle Cabell, the Mayor, who was the brother of Charles, whom JFK had removed from the CIA. He sent his chief assistant, Cliff Carter, to Dallas to make sure all the arrangements were in place.

Without doing some serious study of the background and the players, including reading books by Madeleine Duncan Brown, Billy Sol Estes, Barr McClelland, and "The Last Confessions of E. Howard Hunt", you are unlikely to piece this together. Some of those here, I believe, have attacked the Phil without reading his book.

Jack Ruby, one of the few conspirators who appears to have had a conscience, remarked that, if someone else had been the vice president, such as Adlai Stevenson, this would never have happened. Because he would become the new president, LBJ would be able to control the investigation and insure no one was punished.

I think it is very difficult to get a grip on this aspect of the case because some here have created a straw man by exaggerating the role that Lyndon would have had to play to justify that description. I invite you to listen to a two-hour interview with Phil Nelson on "The Real Deal", http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com to learn a lot more.

Like everyone else, before you study the evidence, including the reports of those who knew Lyndon "up close and personal", it may seem difficult for you to believe. But once you appreciate the character of the man and his "hands on" approach, especially by reading Phil's book, I think you will gain more understanding of all this.

I know I'm in deep water here and probably should not have left the boat, but looking from my point of view as a student, not a researcher, I have trouble with the presumption of the possibility of LBJ as the mastermind of the JFK assassination. I just can't see that kind of power under his total control, and would think RFK would have known and would have somehow exposed the truth if in fact it was a small power source in control of the crime. The EHH confession regarding LBJ, to me, seems a little unlikely as well. Just a comment from a non researcher, but one that truly appreciates being a student of the researchers, and being able to view and post on this forum.

[Charles Drago]

No, you are not in deep water. You have simply misunderstood the conception of Lyndon as "mastermind". If you read the exchanges on this and related threads, you will see that you are in good company, because even some of the more astute members of this forum have displayed similar or very comparable cognitive difficulty.

"Cognitive difficulty" my ass! Anyone with reasonable skills in both the use and meaning of words in the English language and in deep political analysis will understand that there is ZERO justification for using the word "mastermind" to describe the Facilitator role played by LBJ in the JFK assassination. There can be two AND ONLY TWO explanations for such usage: ignorance or hostile intent. Period.

As James Douglass explains in JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, Jack had antagonized some of the most powerful special interest groups in this country, including the CIA, the Joint Chiefs, the Eastern banking establishment, the Mafia, anti-Castro Cubans, and even the Joint Chiefs, all of whom, for different reasons, wanted him out.

This sentence represents rhetorical trickery -- yet another attempt to dignify Nelson's perfidy by positively comparing it to the brilliant work of Douglass. The only other reason to do this -- and I'm not yet ready to accuse Jim Fetzer of this intent -- is to wittingly support the elevation of LBJ to the role of assassination Sponsor, a hostile act designed and executed by some to protect the true Sponsors of the murder.

LBJ was the one player who was connected with all of these disparate interests. He had forced his way onto the ticket in order to ascend to the nation's highest office. You really want to read LBJ: MASTERMIND OF JFK'S ASSASSINATION to grasp the profound ambition and ruthless character of Lyndon Baines Johnson. Without doing some serious study of the background and the players, including reading books by Madeleine Duncan Brown, Billy Sol Estes, Barr McClelland, and "The Last Confessions of E. Howard Hunt", you are unlikely to piece this together.

Jim Fetzer bases his defense of the Nelson disinformation on the death bed bleating of E. Howard Hunt, a non-repentant CIA master propagandist who was up to his ass in JFK assassination guilt and, absent compelling evidence to the contrary that neither Fetzer nor anyone else can produce, played his role to the bitter end. Game, set, and match. But if you need more, know that Madeleine Duncan Brown is so flawed a "witness" to anything but her own delusions that she makes Hunt seem like a font of Holy Writ. And Billy Sol Estes is a life-long criminal whose "confessions" are slightly less believable than that of Hunt.

Some of those here, I believe, have attacked the Phil without reading his book.

Fetzer here is referring to me. I have assured him that I have read the Nelson book, and in a past exchange I went to the trouble of demonstrating same. Yet cornered by his own absurd embrace of Nelson, Fetzer has no choice but to call me a liar -- even though he does not have the backbone to write it directly.

[LBJ] schmoozed with the Secret Service, he undermined JFK's policies, he worked his connections with political leaders in Dallas, including Earle Cabell, the Mayor, who was the brother of Charles, whom JFK had removed from the CIA. He sent his chief assistant, Cliff Carter, to Dallas to make sure all the arrangements were in place.

Ahh, the evil genius mastermind sends his closest aid to the capital city of his own state to facilitate murder -- the execution of the man who the world would immediately understand stood between him and ultimate power (except, of course, that the presidency then as now was a ceremonial office subject to the whims of greater forces -- a rule to which JFK was the exception).

Jack Ruby, one of the few conspirators who appears to have had a conscience, remarked that, if someone else had been the vice president, such as Adlai Stevenson, this would never have happened. Because he would become the new president, LBJ would be able to control the investigation and insure no one was punished.

The psycho-babble about Ruby notwithstanding, none of this justifies a "mastermind" qualification for LBJ, who was ordered to facilitate the cover-up or face his own Texas ride.

I think it is very difficult to get a grip on this aspect of the case because some here have created a straw man by exaggerating the role that Lyndon would have had to play to justify that description. I invite you to listen to a two-hour interview with Phil Nelson on "The Real Deal", http://radiofetzer.blogspot.com to learn a lot more.

There is nothing difficult here for anyone who reads and speaks English. Lyndon Baines Johnson was a puppet whose strings were pulled by the assassinations' true Sponsors. And yes, by all means listen to the Fetzer/Nelson group grope ... er, love fest ... and be amazed. A word to the wide: Stock up on Dramamine.

[Albert Doyle]

As James Douglass explains in JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE, Jack had antagonized some of the most powerful special interest groups in this country, including the CIA, the Joint Chiefs, the Eastern banking establishment, the Mafia, anti-Castro Cubans, and even the Joint Chiefs, all of whom, for different reasons, wanted him out.

If you read this entry it explains why LBJ couldn't be the mastermind. Those interests above were entrenched and existing long before LBJ was placed as a ringer into the Kennedy administration. Any fool could see those interests do not receive orders from a person like LBJ but give them...

[Charles Drago]

Exactly, Albert.

The James Douglass analysis of "the Unspeakable" in all its academic rigor and spiritual strength stands in stark contrast to Nelson's shallow, hostile-to-the-truth bleatings.

JFK and the Unspeakable puts the LIE to Nelson's book.

[Jan Klimkowski]

The sources of, and evidence for, the Texas "assassination eve party" have been investigated and essentially debunked in the thread here, which I will bump separately.

[Vasilios Vazakas]

i asked Professor Fetzer in a previous post if he could answer the following question.
"who do you think were those who ultimately decided, authorized and ordered the execution of President Kennedy?"
I'll rephrase and ask him again:
"Do you believe that LBJ was the man who ultimately decided, authorized and ordered the execution of President Kennedy?"

[Adele Edisen]

I dont know what's worse. Fetzer, Ron or now Adele. Adele seeing as you are such a fan could you please try and clear allegations regarding your hero JF appearing as Ron on the Ventura show. I believe it is not JF but some confirmation would be most appreiciated.

Seamus,

Could you possibly explain what you are talking about? I recognize the name Jim Fetzer and Ventura (Jesse Ventura? I have not seen his shows), but who is Ron and what do I have to do with whatever it is you are talking about? What, or who, is it that I am "such a fan" of and what are the allegations regarding whatever hero I'm supposed to have? This is a really strange request on your part. Please, please explain. Thank you.

Adele Edisen

[Seamus Coogan]

I dont know what's worse. Fetzer, Ron or now Adele. Adele seeing as you are such a fan could you please try and clear allegations regarding your hero JF appearing as Ron on the Ventura show. I believe it is not JF but some confirmation would be most appreiciated.

Seamus,

Could you possibly explain what you are talking about? I recognize the name Jim Fetzer and Ventira (Jesse Ventura? I have not seen his shows), but who is Ron and what do I have to do with whatever it is you are talking about? What, or who, is it that I am "such a fan" of and what are the allegations regarding whatever hero I'm supposed to have? This is a really strange request on your part. Please, please explain. Thank you.

Adele Edisen

Sorry if I was a bit snappy Adele.

There was a rumour that JF made a cameo on Venturas show. I suggested it as a joke and it gathered some steam. I do believe that it is not JF. The problem was that everybody I spoke to believed it was the sort of stunt he'd pull and the sort of information he'd give out. What I think is a little troubling is that I really want JF or anyone to find out who this guy is. In all seriousness I'd work with JF to help resolve the persons identity on the show. The offers there.

[Adele Edisen]

I dont know what's worse. Fetzer, Ron or now Adele. Adele seeing as you are such a fan could you please try and clear allegations regarding your hero JF appearing as Ron on the Ventura show. I believe it is not JF but some confirmation would be most appreiciated.

Seamus,

Could you possibly explain what you are talking about? I recognize the name Jim Fetzer and Ventira (Jesse Ventura? I have not seen his shows), but who is Ron and what do I have to do with whatever it is you are talking about? What, or who, is it that I am "such a fan" of and what are the allegations regarding whatever hero I'm supposed to have? This is a really strange request on your part. Please, please explain. Thank you.

Adele Edisen

Sorry if I was a bit snappy Adele.

There was a rumour that JF made a cameo on Venturas show. I suggested it as a joke and it gathered some steam. I do believe that it is not JF. The problem was that everybody I spoke to believed it was the sort of stunt he'd pull and the sort of information he'd give out. What I think is a little troubling is that I really want JF or anyone to find out who this guy is. In all seriousness I'd work with JF to help resolve the persons identity on the show. The offers there.

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Seamus,

Thanks for your explanation. I guess you thought I might know something about this possible impersonation? As I said, I have not seen the Ventura shows, although I know of them. Is it possible to see them online -- YouTube, maybe? Which program were you referring to?

Adele Edisen

[Seamus Coogan]

I dont know what's worse. Fetzer, Ron or now Adele. Adele seeing as you are such a fan could you please try and clear allegations regarding your hero JF appearing as Ron on the Ventura show. I believe it is not JF but some confirmation would be most appreiciated.

Seamus,

Could you possibly explain what you are talking about? I recognize the name Jim Fetzer and Ventira (Jesse Ventura? I have not seen his shows), but who is Ron and what do I have to do with whatever it is you are talking about? What, or who, is it that I am "such a fan" of and what are the allegations regarding whatever hero I'm supposed to have? This is a really strange request on your part. Please, please explain. Thank you.

Adele Edisen

Sorry if I was a bit snappy Adele.

There was a rumour that JF made a cameo on Venturas show. I suggested it as a joke and it gathered some steam. I do believe that it is not JF. The problem was that everybody I spoke to believed it was the sort of stunt he'd pull and the sort of information he'd give out. What I think is a little troubling is that I really want JF or anyone to find out who this guy is. In all seriousness I'd work with JF to help resolve the persons identity on the show. The offers there.

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Seamus,

Thanks for your explanation. I guess you thought I might know something about this possible impersonation? As I said, I have not seen the Ventura shows, although I know of them. Is it possible to see them online -- YouTube, maybe? Which program were you referring to?

Adele Edisen

Yeah Adele the JFK show can be seen on You Tube Just type in JFK Ventura. How Bugliosi caved in at the end was priceless. But the show was a near thing IMO.