Clifton tape and Collins Radio Doug Horne

[Bernice Moore]

From Bill Kelly Doug Horne's most recent analysis of the recently discovered Clifton tape of AF1 radio transmissions from 11/22/63.and Collins Radio...







Doug Horne's most recent analysis of the recently discovered Clifton tape of AF1 radio transmissions from 11/22/63.





More background:





insidethearrb





JFKcountercoup

[Peter Lemkin]

VERY interesting! To me the MOST interesting is the move by LeMay to disobey orders and be in D.C. I believe he was likely one of the senior people involved in the conspiracy. I further believe he was very very likely at the autopsy and directing it, in part.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Ah yes - Dr Strangelove.

The first test screening of the film was scheduled for November 22, 1963.

Muffley: Well, I, I would hate to have to decide...who stays up and...who goes down.

Dr. Strangelove: Well, that would not be necessary, Mr. President. It could easily be accomplished with a computer. And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross-section of necessary skills. Of course, it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. Ha, ha. But ah, with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present Gross National Product within say, twenty years.

[Albert Doyle]

Horne makes two giant mistakes. First he insists John Lennon was killed by a sole Lone Nut and that this proves he doesn't see conspiracies in everything. Horne shoots his own credibility in the foot with this. Lennon was killed by the same type of classic Technical Services Division hypno-op as Bobby Kennedy. Next he says Oswald was caught on the front steps by Altgens.


Horne is sloppy and will not pass through the needle's eye with these two giant buggaboos strapped to his camel.

[Bill Kelly]

Horne makes two giant mistakes. First he insists John Lennon was killed by a sole Lone Nut and that this proves he doesn't see conspiracies in everything. Horne shoots his own credibility in the foot with this. Lennon was killed by the same type of classic Technical Services Division hypno-op as Bobby Kennedy. Next he says Oswald was caught on the front steps by Altgens.


Horne is sloppy and will not pass through the needle's eye with these two giant buggaboos strapped to his camel.

f

I disagree. Doug Horne was the Chief Analyst for Military Records for the Assassinations Records Review Board, and wrote a five volume study of the medical evidence.

I don't know that he insists John Lennon was killed by a Lone Nut or whether Lennon was killed by the same classic TSD hypno-op as RFK.

Nor do I think he believes Oswald was on the front steps in Altgens, which only makes me suspect you for inserting such BS into the analysis of the Air Force One radio transmission tapes as recently discovered among the effects of Gen. Clifton.

If Mr. Doyle wants to discuss those other topics and Doug Horne's opinions of them he should do it elsewhere, and not under the topic concerned with the Clifton Tape and Collins Radio.

At lease Horne recognizes this is significant and new hard evidence and should be properly reviewed, and not intermingled with other controversial and unrelated subjects like the murders of Lennon and RFK and the Altgens photo.

If anybody would like to read Horne's analysis and wants to discuss it further I think it will be worthwhile and is going to lead to other, even more controversial witnesses and evidence.

Bill Kelly
JFKcountercoup

[Albert Doyle]

Horne makes two giant mistakes. First he insists John Lennon was killed by a sole Lone Nut and that this proves he doesn't see conspiracies in everything. Horne shoots his own credibility in the foot with this. Lennon was killed by the same type of classic Technical Services Division hypno-op as Bobby Kennedy. Next he says Oswald was caught on the front steps by Altgens.


Horne is sloppy and will not pass through the needle's eye with these two giant buggaboos strapped to his camel.

f

I disagree. Doug Horne was the Chief Analyst for Military Records for the Assassinations Records Review Board, and wrote a five volume study of the medical evidence.

I don't know that he insists John Lennon was killed by a Lone Nut or whether Lennon was killed by the same classic TSD hypno-op as RFK.

Nor do I think he believes Oswald was on the front steps in Altgens, which only makes me suspect you for inserting such BS into the analysis of the Air Force One radio transmission tapes as recently discovered among the effects of Gen. Clifton.

If Mr. Doyle wants to discuss those other topics and Doug Horne's opinions of them he should do it elsewhere, and not under the topic concerned with the Clifton Tape and Collins Radio.

At lease Horne recognizes this is significant and new hard evidence and should be properly reviewed, and not intermingled with other controversial and unrelated subjects like the murders of Lennon and RFK and the Altgens photo.



Bill Kelly
JFKcountercoup

Your argument is not with me Mr Kelly, but with Mr Horne. If you studied what he said more closely you would see he was quite adamant Lennon was killed by a Lone Nut and no one else and that Oswald was seen on the front steps in Altgens. You are making the point I was making towards Horne towards me. If you read more closely it was Horne who was mixing these things with the Clifton tapes not me.


.

[Phil Dragoo]

From the insidethearrb article, Douglas Horne writes:

I've got news for you, Chris Matthews: I have no trouble believing that Timothy McVeigh was an angry lone nut who blew up a Federal Building and killed many innocent people, and furthermore I have no trouble believing that Mark David Chapman, for instance, killed John Lennon all by himself, or that President Ford was stalked by a lone nut who attempted to kill him but failed. I have no trouble believing those things because the overwhelming weight of the evidence points in that direction in each case. In spite of my love for the Beatles, I did not have a strong emotional need that forced me to construct a conspiracy theory around how and why John Lennon was murdered. Get real, Chris---spare us the psychobabble.

Phil's note: I don't have a "stong emotional need that forced me to construct a conspiracy theory around how and why ___________ was murdered. As they used to say on the street, that's not how I roll. They say something else now; I'm not with it, as they have changed what it is, you see.

Now, let us again return to the record and note that in the insidethearrb article Douglas Horne writes:

(7) No credible witness saw Lee Harvey Oswald firing his rifle that day, and furthermore, the paraffin test designed to determine whether he had done so, produced a negative result. In fact, Oswald was seen in the second floor lunch room only 5 minutes prior to the assassination (not on the sixth floor), and based on the most careful analysis of the famous Altgens photo, Oswald was in fact standing in the front doorway of the Book Depository when JFK's motorcade went by. He was discovered calmly drinking a coke at the second floor lunch room soda machine less than 90 seconds after the assassination by Dallas motorcycle patrolman Marion Baker. Not only was his WWII surplus Italian carbine "junk," with a defective firing pin, but the rifle's scope was also junk, and was misaligned.

Phil's note: Yes the paraffin test (and add the AEC Oak Ridge Lab confirmation in Gerald D. McKnight, Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why, 2005), seen in the lunchroom yes, standing on front doorway no, drinking a coke yes, defective firing pin yes, scope junk yes.

Doug Horne is a brave and courageous man and I have his five volumes stacked at arm's reach at all times when in the Situation Room deep beneath the earth, but I differ in these two points:

I mark a clear similarity between Sirhan and Chapman and Hinckley. Secondly, I do not place Oswald on the porch; that is Lovelady.

As for the Clifton tapes, bravo. Black cadillac hearse. Maxwell Taylor in repeated sidebars with Los Tres Stoogos. Si, por seguro.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Doug Horne should avoid speaking of matters which he has clearly not seriously investigated.

The official narratives of Timothy McVeigh, Mark David Chapman and Lynette Squeaky Fromme are as legendary, in the spook sense, as the official narrative of Lee Harvey Oswald.

[Phil Dragoo]

Jayna Davis' evidence of a John Doe Number Two with Middle Eastern roots.

The presence, agency and escape of the German military intelligence operative Andreas Karl Strassmeier aka Andy the German.

The calls by ATF informant Carol Howe to her ATF handler Angela Finney for an FBI raid on Elohim City ignored by the FBI.

The coordination suspected between Terry Nichols' trips to the Philippines and the presence there of Ramzi Yousef.

The guilty foreknowledge which cleared the law offices across the street and absented all ATF and FBI agents from Murrah.

It is a very large mandala, larger than the assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

Colorful sand laid on in intricate design cyclically smashed into a thousand pieces and scattered to the winds.

I'm still puzzled over the inordinate focus on Appendix 77 as the four-page memo alleged to be Hoover blackmailing Johnson that the KGB knows you did it and I have been holding this evidence.

In my view there are many interpretations possible of the December 1, 1966 memo not the least of which is that it is a) a forgery by Hunt; b) a KGB psyop; c) a CIA maneuver to take out Hoover and Johnson before their respective heart attacks in 1972, and 1973.

I think the very nice thing about Collins/AF1 2.0 is the presence of Bundy at Crown.

Ubiquitous Bundy. Block a raid. Draft a NSAM. Recarpet the Oval Office. . .in blood red.

"IT'S OVER"
November 22, 1963

A memorandum dictated by Moynihan to himself, describing his chaotic, terrible day after news of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy reached Washington. William Walton was an artist and Kennedy-family friend. Charles Horsky was a prominent lawyer and White House adviser on national capital affairs. Moynihan at the time was an assistant secretary of labor in the Kennedy administration.

Bill Walton, Charlie Horsky and I were just finishing lunch at Walton's housein the grandest good mood with Walton leaving for the Russian tour that afternoonI was talking about Brasilia and the phone rang. Oh no! Killed! No! Horsky's office had phoned for him to return. We rushed upstairs. Television had some of it but the commercials continued. Bill began sobbing. Out of control. Horsky in a rage. Clint (?)Jackie's agent had said the President is dead. Walton knew this meant it was so. He dressed more or less and we went directly to the White House from Georgetown. On the way the radio reported that Albert Thomas had said he might be living.
We went directly to the President's office which was torn apart with new carpets being put down in his office and the cabinet room. As if a new President were to take office. No one about save Chuck Daly. McGeorge Bundy appeared. Icy. Ralph Dungan came in smoking a pipe, quizzical, as if unconcerned. Then Sorensen. The three together in the door of the hallway that leads to the Cabinet room area. Dead silent. Someone said "It's over."

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/featu...ers-201011

[Bill Kelly]

Doug Horne should avoid speaking of matters which he has clearly not seriously investigated.

The official narratives of Timothy McVeigh, Mark David Chapman and Lynette Squeaky Fromme are as legendary, in the spook sense, as the official narrative of Lee Harvey Oswald.

Doug Horne does not mention these other cases in his analysis of the Clifton Tapes.

You want to discuss Timmothy McVeign, who had an accomplice and therefore was a co-conspirator, or the murder of Lennon, whose doorman standing right there next to him was a Bay of Pigs veteran - you can discuss them in another thread, with Doug Horne's opinion or without it.

I want to discuss Doug Horne's analysis of the Clifton Air Force One tape - and what it tells us or does not tell us.

Does anyone else what to discuss the content of the Clifton Tapes - the title of this thread - or do you want to discuss McVeigh, Lennon et al somewhere else?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly
JFKcountercoup