The 'Crime' Of Walking While Black.....the DEADLY consequences for a 16 year old.

[Peter Lemkin]

Now we're talking 'business'! Great! Anyone want to write a life insurance policy for Mr. Z? I liked the old Black Panthers, and I like the sound of the New Black Panthers too.

[Magda Hassan]

‎"THIS JUST IN: Now we know why George Zimmerman didnt get arrested....No Words.......According to court records George Zimmerman is the son of retired Supreme Court Magistrate Judge Robert J Zimmerman, his mother Gladys Zimmerman is a court clerk....He has three closed arrests 7/18/05 for resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer div 10........8/9/05 for domestic violence div 44..... And again on 8/10/05 domestic violence div 46 *** Throws hands up and drops the mic***

New details have emerged regarding the history of George Zimmerman, the man who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin inside a Sanford, Fl gated community complex on February 26th.
New court documents revealed that Zimmerman went to court in 2005 and 2006 for accusations of domestic violence, tussling with a police officer and speeding.According to MSNBC, the three incidents took place in Orange County, Fla.:

In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with "resisting officer with violence" and "battery of law enforcement officer," both which are third-degree felonies.
The charge was reduced to "resisting officer without violence" and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program.
Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman's ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence.
Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
In December 2006, Zimmerman was charged with speeding. The case was dismissed when the officer failed to show up in court.

Trayvon's case has sparked nationwide outrage and his parents, along with their supporters, have called for Zimmerman's arrest.The case has drawn national attention and thousands have rallied across the country for Trayvon's cause.Bill Lee, the Sanford police chief, has temporarily stepped down from his post, while the FBI and Department of Justice and the state of Florida are investigating.

Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/829145#ixzz1qT4wEruf

[Peter Lemkin]

Just the kind 'O guy who should have a rifle and patrol the neighborhood.....and get off scott-free when he kills someone in cold blood! All of the 'stand-your-ground' laws are insane and backed by ALEC, the gun lobby and the ultra-insane. Where's Marshall Dillon when we need him?!...since we have gone back to the Wild West of the 1840s.

[Peter Lemkin]

JUAN GONZALEZ: As the shooting death of Trayvon Martin continues to draw national attention, today we look at another controversial shooting of an African-American male that has received far less scrutiny. On the morning of November 19th, a 68-year-old former marine named Kenneth Chamberlain with a heart condition accidentally pressed the button on his medical alert system while sleeping. Responding to the alert, police officers from the city of White Plains, New York, arrived at Chamberlain's apartment in a public housing complex shortly after 5 a.m. By the time the police left the apartment, Kenneth Chamberlain was dead, shot twice in the chest by a police officer inside his home. Police gained entry to Chamberlain's apartment only after they took his front door off its hinges. Officers first shot him with a taser, then a beanbag shotgun, and then with live ammunition.

AMY GOODMAN: Police have insisted the use of force was warranted. They said Kenneth Chamberlain was emotionally disturbed and had pulled a knife on the officers. This is David Chong, public safety commissioner in White Plains.

DAVID CHONG: The officers first used an electronic taser, which was discharged, hit the victim, and had no effect. While the officers were retreating, the officers then used a shotgun, a beanbag shotgun.

AMY GOODMAN: Relatives of Kenneth Chamberlain have questioned the police portrayal of events that led to his death, and they say audio and video recorded at the scene back up their case. According to the family, Kenneth Chamberlain can be heard on an audio recording of his call to the medical alert system operator saying, quote, "Please leave me alone. I'm 68 with a heart condition. Why are you doing this to me? Can you please leave me alone?" Officers allegedly responded by calling Chamberlain a racial slur while urging him to open the door. The audio recording of the incident has not been made public and remains in the possession of the Westchester District Attorney's office.

In early December, Kenneth Chamberlain, a retired marine, was buried with military honors. The family posted video of part of the ceremony.

Several months after his death, the name of the officer who killed Kenneth Chamberlain has yet to be released. The DA has vowed to convene a grand jury to determine if any of the officers should face charges.

We invited the White Plains Police Department and the Westchester DA's office on to the program, but they declined to join us or issue a comment. But we are joined by Kenneth Chamberlain, Jr., the son of Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr., the victim, and by two of the family's attorneys. Mayo Bartlett is the former chief of the Bias Crimes Unit of the Westchester County District Attorney's office and the former chair of the Westchester County Human Rights Commission. Randolph McLaughlin is a longtime civil rights attorney. He teaches at Pace Law School.

We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Our condolences to your family, Kenneth Chamberlain, on the death of your father.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: Tell us what you understand happened early in the morning of November 19th.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Well, it's my understanding that, from what I've gathered right now, that my father accidentally pushed his medical pendant around his neck. He could have possibly turned over on it. We don't know. We can only speculate about that.

AMY GOODMAN: Why did he wear it?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: He has a heart condition, and he also suffered from COPD. And when hethe pendant was triggered

AMY GOODMAN: You're holding that in

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: his hand.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: This is his pendant right here. It was triggered, and the medical companythere's a box inside his home. The medical company asked him if he was all right. They didn't get a response. So, automatically, if you don't get a response, they send medical services to your house. They informed the police that they are responding to a medical emergency, not a crime. And once they arrived at my father's home, my father did tell them that he was OK. But for some reason, they wanted to gain entry into my father's home. I don't know why. And in the audio, you hear my father telling them that he's fine, he's OK.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Now, this is an important point, that there was audio going on throughout this between the firm and your father.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Correct.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And so, much of the activity of the police was caught on this audio.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes, it was.

AMY GOODMAN: So the box on the wall records everything that's

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: It's actually a box that just sat on his table in thein his dining room area. It just sat there. And it's connected to the phone company. So if he does trigger it, as I said, you hear a loud beeping noise. And then the operator, from their central station, will come on, and they say, "Mr. Chamberlain, are you OK? You triggered your alarm. Is everything all right?" And, of course, if they don't get a response, they then contact the officials.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Now you were able to hear this audio because the DA's office allowed you to hear it? How did you

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes.

JUAN GONZALEZ: But it has not yet been released.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: No, it hasn't.

AMY GOODMAN: So, continue. You hear your father through the door telling the police he's OK. This is about 5:00 in the morning?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes. He's saying that he's OK. He's saying that he did not call for them. But they were very insistent. They were banging on the door, banging on the door, banging on the door. So you hear one of the officers say to him, "Well, you pushed youryou triggered your alarm now." He said, "That's because I want you to leave me alone." And they just kept telling him, "Open the door. Open the door. Let us see that you're all right." At some point, the door was cracked open, because the police officers have a taser that has a camera on it, and it also has audio. So you could see where the door was cracked open. So, once you've gotten a visual, and you've seen that my father is OK, and he's telling you that he's OK, why would you still insist on getting into the apartment? Which is the question that I have. And they weren't responding to a crime. He was sleeping and accidentally triggered his alarm.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And the officers then did what?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Ultimately, after using expletives and racial slurs, they broke down the door. You can see on the video from the taser that they fired a taser at him. And I'm assuming that both prongs didn't go in. He stood about maybe eight to 10 feet away from them with his hands down to his side. And at one point, you hear one of the officers say, "Cut it off." And it was at that point they shot and killed my father.

AMY GOODMAN: They shot him with beanbag also?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Well, we didn't see that. So I can'tI can't confirm or deny that.

AMY GOODMAN: Did you hear what the police officers were saying, were shouting to him before theydid they take the door off the hinges?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: They took it completely off the hinges.

AMY GOODMAN: To get in.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes. There were no orders given to him once they knocked the door down, though, which you would have expected, that they would have given some type of verbal command and said, "Get down on the floor. Put your hands up. Get against the wall." None of those things were said.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And the allegation that he tried to attack them with a weapon first through the crack in the door and then once they got in the house?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: I didn't see that. I can't say that it didn't happen, but from the video that I've seen and from what I gathered from the audio, I didn't see where my father attacked them. And he was inside his home, so where was the immediate threat?

AMY GOODMAN: What exactly did you hear your father say? He was inside the house as the police are coming inside, and the medical pendant company is recording all of this.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: I've heardI heard several things on there. One thing you hear is my father pleading with them to leave him alone. Excuse me. You hear him asking them why are they doing this to him. He says, "I'm a 68-year-old man with a heart condition. Why are you doing this to me? I know what you're going to do: you're going to come in here, and you're going to kill me." You also hear him pleading with the officers again, over and over. And at one point, that's when the expletive is used by one of the police officers.

AMY GOODMAN: What did they say?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Where they say, "I don't give a F." And then they use the N-word. And then, as I said, ultimately, they bust down the door. And it hurts because, as I said, it didn't have to go to that point. You also hear the operators from the LifeAid company call the police station and say that they want to cancel the call, Mr. Chamberlain is OK. And at one point you hear the officer there at their central office say, "We're not canceling anything." They say, "Call his son. Contact his son." And they say, "We're not contacting anyone. We don't need any mediators."

JUAN GONZALEZ: I'd like to bring in Mayo Bartlett, because you're not only an attorney for the family in this case, but you are also a former prosecutor

MAYO BARTLETT: Yes.

JUAN GONZALEZ: in Westchester County, so you're familiar with police procedures in cases like this. I'm struck by the fact that the identity of the police officer involved has not yet been revealed. That's something that's pretty routine in cases like this, certainly by this time, because we're talking about an event that happened in November.

MAYO BARTLETT: Absolutely. I think that anybody who lives in the city of White Plains has to ask themselves whether this individual is working right now. And if so, in what capacity? And I think that it's justit's atrocious that that name has not been released and that the officers involved are not at least on desk duty, some type of modified duty.

Looking at it as a former prosecutor, whenever you talk about a use of force, you always look at a use of force continuum, and it's an escalation of force. And generally, police departments have rules and protocols which suggest that you should first start out with a verbal command, if in fact there's even a need to do that and if that's the least intrusive manner that you can address an issue. And after that, it goes generally to a light hands application, and it goes up from there to possibly a baton, pepper spray, possibly a taser. And you use deadly force only when it's necessary to prevent deadly force from being used.

And in this case, Mr. Chamberlain didn't have a gun. Mr. Chamberlain, when I saw the videotape, did not have a knife when he was in his apartment. You see a 68-year-old man with no shirt on and boxer shorts and his hands down at his sides. And I didn't see any weapon in his hands there.

And the other thing that's troubling to me is the fact that a taser was used at all, because you're there for a medical response. You're not there investigating a criminal act. You are there with the understanding that there may be a person who needs medical assistance.

AMY GOODMAN: For a man with a heart condition, no less.

MAYO BARTLETT: Absolutely. And so, if you understand that, to use a taser, which is going to send significant electricity through that person's body, would be, at best, reckless. And that alone could cause his death. And the thing that's extremely troubling to me is that, again, the police were not there to respond to criminal activity. They went to the gentleman's house at 5:00 in the morning to give him assistance. The only reason that he had the LifeAid pendant to begin with was so that his family and that he would be comfortable that if something was to occur, he would be able to get assistance.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to read part of the initial news coverage around the killing of Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr. The headline on the News 12 website read, quote, "Officer fatally shoots hatchet-wielding man." TheDailyWhitePlains.com website posted an article titled "Police Fatally Shoot Disturbed Man Carrying Knife." The story begins, quote, "White Plains police say an officer discharged two rounds, fatally shooting an emotionally disturbed White Plains man who attempted to bar officers from entering his apartment with a hatchet and then turned towards police with a butcher's knife." Randy McLaughlin, would you respond to this?

RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: Well, first, one of the problems in a wrongful death case like this is, you've got a decedent, the person who's dead, and the police initially put out their spin. And that's a spin. That's clearly a spin. The videotape hadthere's also a videotape of what happened in that hallway. There's an audio tape. There's a videotape of Mr. Chamberlain when they come at him with the taser. This is a clear violation of criminal law and of constitutional rights. In our country, we have a Fourth Amendment that says we're supposed to be secure in our own homes. Mr. Chamberlain wasn't attacking anyone. He was in his home. This idea that theyhe attacked anyone with a hatchet is, frankly, a lie. That's what it is. It's a cover story to cover up what they've done here. And we're meeting with the district attorney this afternoon, of Westchester County, to press for a full prosecution of the highest crimes in this state. There's a petition, and online petition, that Mr. Chamberlain has put out, and we're presenting that petition to her today, as well.

JUAN GONZALEZ: It would seem to me that given the fact that they have the audio and the video, and they hear their own officers using racial epithets, would immediately say to the brass of the police department, "We have a problem here," because that's going to be in court before a grand jury at some point, and that they had a responsibility at that point to begin doing their own investigation of what's going on here.

RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: They have so many problems here. Mr. Chamberlain's niece was in the hallway right at the time when they were banging on the door. She said to them, "I'm his niece." They pushed her away.

AMY GOODMAN: She lived upstairs?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes.

RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: On the fifth floor. Another officer who was present had a full head-to-toe body shield that could stop bullets. And rather than secure the situationlet's assume for the sake of this discussion that they had a right to see him to make sure he was OK. OK, so the door is open. You see him there. Why are you entering his apartment? It's kind of like Zimmerman. You provoke a situation, then you respond to it, "Oh, I had to use deadly force to protect myself." No, you provoked the situation. You had no right to cross that man's threshold in his home. That's what led to the problem.

AMY GOODMAN: Last week, New York State Senator Suzi Oppenheimer wrote a letter to Westchester County District Attorney voicing support for an investigation into the killing. She wrote, quote, "I ask that you do everything in your power to ensure that there is a full and fair investigation of this incident and that all relevant information is presented to the grand jury for its consideration." She has so far been the only state legislator to speak out, is this right, Mayo?

MAYO BARTLETT: Yeah, that's correct. And the thing is, I want to follow on what Randy just said in terms of Mr. Zimmerman. I think that thisand I don'tI'm not comparing the two tragedies. I don't like to do that. But what I do think is this. Mr. Zimmerman is a private citizen. This is individuals who are acting under color of law. These are people who are employed by the government to give you assistance. So I think that that's even more egregious than an individual who may exercise terrible judgment or have bias in their heart.

And I think that it also isit is a travesty that we don't have any reaction from public officials. And if you simply reverse the roles here, if Mr. Chamberlain had shot at a police officer or harmed a police officer, even if it wasn't with deadly force, if an officer ended up having a bloody nose, in all likelihood Mr. Chamberlain, 68-year-old 20-year retired corrections officer and a gentleman who served this country in the Marines for six years, would have been charged with a felony assault. And we would have heard from all of our elected officials. They would have talked about him probably in disparaging ways. They would have possibly called him an animal, as sometimes people who are alleged to have committed these crimes are referred to.

JUAN GONZALEZ: I'd like to ask you about this issue, that they're talking about bringing this case to a grand jury in April. This happened in November. We're talking now five or six months later that they're empaneling even a grand jury to discuss the facts, not necessarily to chargepossibly to charge someone. But it seems to me a long time to wait foreven for a grand jury on this.

MAYO BARTLETT: Well, it is a good amount of time. And part of it is an investigatory process, but it is a long time. And the biggest concern I have with respect to the grand jury is that we do not have an opportunity to present information to a grand jury in New York state. The only person who does that is the district attorney's office. So we can't even determine whether they're going to play the audio tape at all. if there will play the audio tape, or, if so, whether it's going to be redacted. So we're really stuck with a good faith offering from the district attorney that it's going to be fully presented.

AMY GOODMAN: Kenneth Chamberlain, Jr., tell us about your dad, Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: When people ask me about that, I tell people he was a father like anyone else. I mean, he agreed with some things that you did, and he disagreed with others. But my father would never hurt anyone intentionally. He wouldn't go after anyone. I mean, he was law enforcement himself. He was a marine. I'm sure whatever he's seen when he served, that that was enough violence for him. And for them to look at my father that way, withoutI mean, no regard for his life, every morning I think about it, just the circumstances, because I guess maybe around 5:00 in the morning I tend to think about all of this. And it disturbs me about the fact that it hasn't been presented yet, because I do know, as my attorney said, that if the roles had been reversed, this would already be in a grand jury.

AMY GOODMAN: When did you hear your father had been killed?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: I found out from a friend of mine that Saturday morning. I was up, and my phone rang. And a friend of mine called me, and he saidwho also lives in the buildinghe said, "You need to get out to White Plains right away." And I asked him why. He said, "Something is going on with your father. I don't know what it is." And I asked him, I said, "Well, what's going on?" And as he was getting ready to tell me, he just yelled out, "Oh, my god!" And I asked him what happened.

AMY GOODMAN: I'm really sorry to put you through this again, to make you relive it.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: I apologize.

AMY GOODMAN: You're holding your father's ID card, as well?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes. I have his Marine ring and his veteran's card. My father was

AMY GOODMAN: We're talking to Kenneth Chamberlain, Jr., the son of Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr., who was killed by police on November 19th, 2011, in his home. His medical alert pendant went off, and the company called the police to check on him.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: I'm sorry.

AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead, Ken. It's fine.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes, I have his Marine ring, his veteran's card. He was proud to be a marine. And even on the audio, you hear the police officers making fun of the fact that he was a marine. And

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: They asked my father to open the door. He refused. He said, "I'm not opening my door." They said something to the effect that they were going to knock it down. He said, "I won't let you in." And he said "Semper Fi." So they said, "Oh, you're a marine. Hoo-rah. Hoo-rah." And this is somebody that served this country. Why would you even say that to him? And my father always said, "Once a marine, always a marine," if he was ever in trouble and couldn't get help from anybody else, to call on a marine. And a lot of those things come back now, where things that I hadjust I thought went in one ear and right out the other, but in light of these things, when you hear the audio, when you look at the video, all of these things come back.

And in 45 years of me being on this earth, that was the very first time that I ever heard my father where he was pleading and begging for his life, someone who I looked at as being extremely strong, to hear him beg for his life, to say that this was his sworn testimony on the audio, which the police did not know that was being recorded. He said, "My name is Kenneth Chamberlain. This is my sworn testimony. White Plains police are going to come in here and kill me."

JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, and the amazing thing about this is that they were supposed to come there to assist him

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Yes.

JUAN GONZALEZ: that there was no indication of any kind of a crime

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Exactly.

JUAN GONZALEZ: and that he would have depended on them for help, and instead this happens.

RANDOLPH McLAUGHLIN: I think it's importantyou know, we're lawyers. This is what we do. But I think it's important to always remember and look at this case not as a case, but as a human being who lost his life over a needless situation, and look at the impact that this kind of senseless killing has on his family. This man lost his father. He gets a call at 5 a.m. "My father is inhaving a difficult" why didn't they call him? He could have been there in five minutes. I mean, the lack of professionalism in this department is shocking. The fact that theythat no public official in the city of White Plains has come and said to this man, "I'm sorry over the loss of your father." I mean, Mayor Bloomberg has done that in New York. Whether I agree with everything he's done, at least he has the decency to do that. No one has reached out to this man at all.

So, we have prepared to take this case to the fullest extent. We filed a notice of claim on behalf of the family, and we're waiting a little time to give the DA a chance to do what she has to do. But if they don't do the right thing in White Plains, we're coming to Manhattan to seek justice in the Department of Justice with the U.S. attorney's office.

MAYO BARTLETT: Randy, if I can just follow on what you're saying also, it's interesting that the very first coverage of this comes from the White Plains Police Department. And the White Plains Police Department neglects to mention that they were there for a medical emergency. They don't state that. They lead you to believe that they were there to deal with a person who was out of control, who was a threat to the community, who was somehow out there and required their assistance. And I remember watching it as it occurred, and I'm sitting down with my friend and his sons, who are in high school. And it had a picture of the White Plains police car and a target on the police vehicle, as if the police had been targeted. And there was a statement immediately made that it was a justified shooting. And that statement had to have been made before they were aware that there was audio and that perhaps some of the video contradicts that. And it's very similar to Mr. Zimmerman suggesting that he had a bloody nose, and now you look at the video, and it doesn't appear to be the case. And that really makes you question what we're being told sometimes by government with respect to these types of matters.

And to any degree that Mr. Chamberlain was emotional, it was because he was taunted. They created the situation. They escalated a situation. And police are trained. They're trained to deal with people who are emotionally disturbed. They're not trained to kill those individuals, and certainly not an individual who's 68 years old when you have a ballistic shield and a dozen officers and firefighters that are present who could have simply gone in. But there was a suggestion that Mr. Chamberlain had left his home and that the officers were retreating. That never occurred. The minute they got into the house, they didn't even give him one command. They never mentioned, "Put your hand up." They never told him to lay down on the bed. They never did any of that. The first thing they did, as soon as that door was finally broken off the hinges, you could see the taser light up, and it was charged, and you could see it going directly toward him. Now that was 100 percent unnecessary.

And when you see that video, which I wish was public, because I think that the grand jury is used as a shield, and it shouldn't be. It's a shield for people who have committed crimes and generally a shield for law enforcement, because, again, these same videos are made public, very public, when they involve civilians who are charged. And I think that the shielding provision of the grand jury, the secrecy provision, is to prevent people from organizedbeing threatened by organized crime figures, not to protect you from your own police department.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you all for being with us and end on a final question to Kenneth Chamberlain, Jr. When you heard of the killing of Trayvon Martin, your thoughts, as you're going through what you're going? They're saying they, too, in Florida, will be convening a grand jury, apparently at about the same time as the grand jury will be convened in the case of the death of your father that occurred months earlier.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: My heart definitely goes out to that family, because I know exactly what it is that they're feeling right now. And it took me a while before I actually listened to the released 911 tapes of that day with that young man. And when I finally got up the nerve to listen to it, to hear him in the background yelling for helpand I think it was about maybe three timesand then you hear a gunshot, and you don't hear him anymore, it brought tears to my eyes immediately. And itof course, it also made me think about my own father, because I hear him pleading for his life, too. And it's the same thing that happened with this young man. So I would just encourage that family to just keep up the fight and don't give up, the same as I'm doing.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Kenneth Chamberlain, I want to thank you very much for being with us. You have a petition online right now?

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: I just took the petition down, but I also have a Facebook page that says "Justice for Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr." that a lot of people have gone on and requested to be a part of, where I just keep people updated about the events that are taking place. Very recently, I just posted that I was going to be here. And before that, I spoke about the fact that no elected officials in White Plains have spoken to my family, and why haven't they? They haven't commented. And you would think that they would. But I guess that's another question for another day.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, we certainly will continue to follow this case.

KENNETH CHAMBERLAIN, JR.: Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: Kenneth Chamberlain, Jr., Mayo Bartlett and Randolph McLaughlin, thank you very much for being with us.

[Peter Lemkin]

The death of a homeless woman in St. Louis, Missouri, last year is now drawing national scrutiny over revelations of how she died in police custody. Twenty-nine-year-old Anna Brown had gone to the hospital seeking emergency medical treatment for leg pain. When she refused to leave the emergency ward, she was carried to jail by her arms and ankles and left on the floor of her cell. Within 15 minutes, she had stopped moving and was soon after pronounced dead. The officers who arrested her reportedly suspected she was at the hospital seeking drugs. But an autopsy later revealed she had had blood clots in her legs and lungs and had no drugs in her system. The St. Louis police never announced Brown's death. Her story only came to light six months later after an anonymous caller tipped off the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper. Brown, who was African American, was the mother of two children. Her family is reportedly considering bringing a wrongful death suit against the hospital and police.

[Peter Lemkin]

JUAN GONZALEZ: New questions are being raised in the Trayvon Martin case over George Zimmeman's claim that he shot the 17-year-old in self-defense last month in Sanford, Florida. Speaking anonymously to Anderson Cooper by phone, a witness to the shooting said last night he observed a struggle between Zimmerman and Martin from a nearby window. While Zimmerman told police he was attacked by Martin, the witness said Zimmerman did not show any signs of injures after he shot the teenager. The witness's voice was distorted to protect his identity.

WITNESS: I can't say I actually watched him get up. But maybe only within like a couple seconds or so, then he was walking towards where I was watching, and I could see him a little bit clearer, could see that it was a Hispanic man, and he wasyou know, he didn't appear hurt or anything else. He just kind of seemed veryyou know, I can't speak for him, but very worried or whatever, walked like on the sidewalk at that point and his hand up to kind of his forehead. And then another man came out with a flashlight.

AMY GOODMAN: That interview was on CNN. In other developments, the New York Daily News has revealed the mother of a young witness said her son was "pressured" by police. Police have said that 13-year-old Austin Brown saw Zimmerman lying in the grass crying for help just before the slaying, but Brown's mother says her son only saw one person lying in the grass, and he couldn't tell who it was because it was too dark. The Daily News is also reporting a former co-worker of Zimmerman says the gunman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for, quote, "being too aggressive."

Meanwhile, a white supremacist hacker has claimed to have broken into Trayvon Martin's Gmail, Yahoo!, MySpace and Twitter accounts and posted his private messages online. Some commentators have described it as part of a racist smear campaign against Trayvon Martin.

Meanwhile, members of George Zimmerman's family have begun speaking to the media. Zimmerman's father, Robert Zimmerman, appeared on Fox 35 in Florida and explained what he understood to have happened the night Trayvon Martin died.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN: Trayvon Martin walked up to him, asking, "Do you have a [bleep] problem?" George said, "No, I don't have a problem," and started to reach for his cell phone. At that point, he was punched in the nose. His nose was broken, and he was knocked to the concrete.

JUAN GONZALEZ: George Zimmerman's brother, Robert Zimmerman, Jr., appeared on CNN's Piers Morgan Tonight. He stood behind his brother's claim of self-defense even though police surveillance video showed Zimmerman walking into the Sanford police station with no visible signs of blood minutes after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR.: What I think I see is a swollen nose. Now, I'm not a physician. You're not a physician. A lot of these injuries take time24 hours, 36 hoursto show the bruising. Sometimes the bone breaks, and the blood is swallowed, like in the case of, for example, if your hand would be on someone's nose and mouth preventing them from speaking out.

PIERS MORGAN: Does he have any injuries now?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR.: His nose is still broken.

PIERS MORGAN: It's still broken?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR.: His nose is still broken, yeah.

PIERS MORGAN: A month later, it's still broken.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, JR.: His nose. I don't know about the back of his head. I mean, his nose is still healing. It's not healed. He's nothe has very severe emotional injuries. He has veryhe's been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.

AMY GOODMAN: While you could see Robert Zimmerman, Jr.'s face on Piers Morgan, when his father went on Fox TV, he was in silhouette.

Well, for more, we go to Orlando, Florida, where we're joined by Natalie Jackson. She is the attorney for Trayvon Martin's family, founder of the Women's Trial Group.

Welcome to Democracy Now! Thank you so much for joining us, Natalie Jackson. Can you respond to these latest stories being presented by George Zimmerman's father and brother?

NATALIE JACKSON: Clearly, they are trying to protect their family member. And I guess they have a right to do that. But the problem is, they don't have a right to destroy Trayvon's memory in the process. Trayvon was an innocent child. There is nothing that he was doing wrong. He was not involved in any criminal activity, and he had a right to be where he was.

My response to them is that, you can tell us whatever you want to, but we have the call that George Zimmerman made, where he said, "These A-holes always get away." He was told not to get out of his car; he continued to get out of his car. And he also said that Trayvon was running away from him. We also have telephone calls that Trayvon made and provetelephone recordsthat he was on the phone when George Zimmerman approached and attacked him. We also have, now, a video that shows that George Zimmerman did not have the injuries that his family members are claiming and that he claimed.

So, it comes to where there is no explanation for people who were not there, such as me and his family members. People who want to know the truth, all they have to do is listen to the videoI mean, listen to the audios and view the videotapes. It's there for people to see.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And, of course, you have raised serious questions about the initial investigation. And the new police chief there is actuallywas part of that investigation?

NATALIE JACKSON: He was a part of that investigation, we're told. Now, what your audience has to remember is that the family has not been given any information about the investigation into the death of their son. Everything that they are learning is coming from the media. It's coming from people who are sources, and it's coming fromit's coming at the same time that the public is getting it. This is a family who lost their child, their 17-year-old child. And the law enforcement has not released any information to them. That's why they started this campaign. They want to know what happened when their son was coming home from the store and George Zimmerman got out of his car with a nine-millimeter and shot him dead.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to play more from the eyewitness who spoke to Anderson Cooper on CNN last night. He says he observed the struggle between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin from a window. The witness's voice was distorted to protect the person's identity.

WITNESS: I couldn't hear the words, but it was like, OK, this is not a regular conversation. You know, this is someone aggressively, you know, yelling at someone. Saw two men on the ground, one on top of each other, obviously thinking, OK, something really horrible is happening. And at that point, not looking out the window, I heard the yell for help, one yell for help, and then I heard another, as I described this, excruciating type of yell. It didn't even almost sound like a "Help." It just sounded so painful. But I wasn't watching out the window during that. And the next time I looked out the window there, the same thing: two men on the grass, one on top of each other. I kind of thought like theyI couldn't see a lot of movement, because it was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard the gunshot, which, to me, were more like pops than they were like a bang.

AMY GOODMAN: Witness that was talking to Anderson Cooper on CNN. Can youNatalie Jackson, can you talk about the significance of this person coming forward?

NATALIE JACKSON: This person is another witness. You know, there are many witnesses in this case, and there's a lot of ear evidence and eye evidence that needs to be presented to a jury. I can't talk about the credibility of this witness nor any other witness, nor George Zimmerman. That is a question for a jury. This case has notit won't get to a jury if George Zimmerman is not brought to trial. And that is what happened in this case. When these parents found out that their child had been shot and killed by George Zimmerman, they were told law enforcement could do nothing about it because it was self-defense. That is not the way our system works. That's not America. He needs to be brought before a jury of his peers. Let them decide who's credible, who's not credible, and whether or not he can claim self-defense. There is no doubt who the shooter is. The shooter is George Zimmerman.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, it would seem to me also that the forensic evidence, which is bound to come outit should obviously be presented in a grand jury, but certainly in a trialwould indicate a lot about the proximity of Zimmerman to Martin when the shooting occurred and a lot more in terms of the angles of the bullets. But we have not heard anything about that so far.

NATALIE JACKSON: Yeah, and all of that is for a jury. The point is, is that these parents are told there was not even probable cause to arrest. After we have all of this evidence, these parentsand they were told there was no probable cause to even arrest George Zimmerman. That's not a satisfactory answer. And it's especially not a satisfactory answer now that we see all of the evidence that is coming out.

AMY GOODMAN: Natalie Jackson, can you talk about the significance of both the police chief of Sanford stepping aside, though he has said not permanently, as well as the state's attorney, the person who originally said, after tremendous pressure, after the Justice Department announced an investigation, that they would convene a grand jury in a few weeks, Norm Wolfinger?

NATALIE JACKSON: Well, the significance is, is that now this family feels like they may get some justice for their son. There has been a special prosecutor assigned. This is a prosecutor that is not from the area, does not know the people. And there has been a grand jury convened that is supposed to convene on April 10. The family is feeling more positive. Now, I will say, actions speak louder than words, because this family has heard a lot of words. But they're feeling more positive that perhaps a fair and equal treatment will be given to this case.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain something, Natalie Jackson, that we haven't seen in the media? First of all, where was Trayvon shot? How was he shot, in what part of his body? And how was it that his family didn't find out for several days that he was the John Doe in the morgue that had been notthat had not been identified?

NATALIE JACKSON: OK, we haven't received the autopsy yet, so everything we know about where Trayvon was shot comes from the person who prepared the body. And it was in the center of the chest. The release of the bodythe parents knew where Trayvon was the next day, when they filed a missing person's report. However, he was labeled a John Doe for three days, even after the parents identified [him] as [their] son. That is the problem. So that was a little bit of people not quite understanding what happened.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you explain that?

NATALIE JACKSON: No, we can't. The parents asked for the release of the body. He was labeled a John Doe. They would not release the body for three days.

JUAN GONZALEZ: So, in other words, they were informed by the next day that he was dead?

NATALIE JACKSON: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: But was that only after they had filed a missing person's report?

NATALIE JACKSON: That is correct, after they had filed a missing person's report.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And what are the next steps for your legal team? And what are you calling for, what you believe has to happen immediately?

NATALIE JACKSON: We believe what has to happen is that we have to continue these media tours to inform the public so that the public will keep the pressure on. There was an online petition to arrest George Zimmerman. That online petition has over two million signatures. This is two million people of all nationalities, all races and all political affiliations, two million people who look at this evidence that is presented and says George Zimmerman needs to be arrested and brought to trial. And as of now, that has not happened. So, until that happens, until he's brought to trial, then we will continue to put the pressure on.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And you've had to hire your own investigators because of the terrible job that has been done so far by authorities in ascertaining the facts in this case?

NATALIE JACKSON: Yes. And, you know, I don't know if it's a terrible job or just they thought it was inconsequential to do the job. You know, there'swhether or not it was important to do or it was bungled, we don't know. But we had to go out and investigate this case. We hired an investigator that got the phone records. And once we saw Trayvon's phone record, because he was on thehe had his phone with him, and we saw that he was on the phone when this incident purportedly happened. We contacted the person he was on the phone with. It was a young girl. And she told us that she heard Zimmerman approach Trayvon. And this is very extraordinary, because she and Trayvonaccording to the phone records, there was a phone call at 7:12. The phone call lasted for four minutes. That would make it 7:16. According to police records, they were on the scene at 7:17, and Trayvon was dead. So, this young girl is a very important witness.

AMY GOODMAN: And the issue of Trayvon's life, his reputation being attacked, I mean, his mom saying, "First they kill my son, then they kill his reputation" what do you know of this white supremacist who supposedly hacked into thehis Twitter account, Facebook, email? What do know about this?

NATALIE JACKSON: We don't know anything. We know that he's ignorant, and he's just as ignorant as the black militia who put out bounties on people. These are ignorant people who are divisive. There is a whole group of people who are united together in justice, and they are united across all races, all nationalities, all political affiliations. We cannot let these people divide and distract from what really happened. This is about the evidence that will be presented, the factual evidence, not everyone's subjective opinions or their baggage that they're bringing into this.

AMY GOODMAN: Natalie Jackson, we want to thank you for being with us, local co-counsel for Trayvon Martin's family. She's the founder of the Women's Trial Group. She's speaking to us from Orlando, Florida, about a half an hour from Sanford, where Trayvon Martin was killed.

[Peter Lemkin]

JUAN GONZALEZ: For more on Trayvon Martin, we're joined by Cynthia Dagnal-Myron. She is a former reporter for the Chicago Sun-Times and the Arizona Daily Star who has also spent over 20 years as a teacher and administrator. Her own fifth-grade teacher was Mamie Till Mobley, the mother of Emmett Till, who was murdered at the age of 14 in Mississippi in 1955. Her most recent piece appeared on Salon.com; it's called "For Trayvon and Emmett: My 'Walking While Black' Stories."

Welcome to Democracy Now!

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: Good morning.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Could you tell us a little bit, in terms of the article that you had, how the Trayvon Martin incident had an impact on you and the article that you wrote?

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: The first thing that happened was I was thinking about all the confusion that was going on about what had actually happened, and as a black woman, I was just thinking about my own life experiences and how none of this really surprised me, because of the things that had happened to me. So, as all this was swirlingand it's beginning to get worseI was just thinking about how most of us, most black women and men, have had experienceswe call it "walking while black." We've all had these experiences. So, for us, this was just another instance of someone being mistaken for a thug or something he was not. And it was justI was angry. That's all I can say. I was just angry.

AMY GOODMAN: You have a remarkable story. I was just looking at a piece you wrote, Cynthia Dagnal-Myron, as assistant principal of the Pistor Middle School in Tucson, Arizona, about your fifth-grade teacher, Mamie Till Mobley. Can you tell us the story of Mamie Till Mobley and her son Emmett Till?

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: I was a fifth grader. So what we knew as children was that we had a very famous teacher. My experience was being horrified atI think the entire community was horrified at the pictures that we saw. And what I remember most was that Mamieor Mrs. Mobley, as we called herwas very, very determined to make sure that her son was not forgotten. She was also very, very determined that we, as students, would excel and go on to be on the front lines to do something about the ignorance that had killed her son. And so, I remember her just as a very remarkable woman, a strong-willed woman who was not going to let her son be forgotten or his death be in vain.

AMY GOODMAN: She did something incredible. I mean, here, this was her only child, and she sends him to Money, Mississippi, for the summer to get out of the city, to get out of Chicago, to be with his aunt and uncle and cousins. He is ripped out of bed in the middle of the night by a white mob, and he ends up in the bottom of the Tallahatchie River. And when his body was dredged up and taken in a casket back to Chicago, she said she wanted the casket open for the wake and the funeral. She wanted the world to see the ravages of racism and the brutality of bigotry. What did she tell you? And we are showing those images now; for folks listening on the radio, you can go to our website at democracynow.org. You know, his distended, mutilated head, thousands saw. Black publications like Jet magazine actually published them. Talk about

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: Yes. What did she tell us about him?

AMY GOODMAN: Yes, tell us about that and how you see it relating to Trayvon.

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: Well, first of all, she didn't talk about it overtly in class. But we knew why she was so absolutely insistent on our learning, on our excelling in classes. She wantedshe loved excellence. She demanded excellence of us, because she really wanted us to act on behalf of her son, and so she was extremely, extremely adamant that we learn and that we do our very, very best.

How this is connected is that we haveagain, we have a young man, a beautiful young man, with an almost cherubic Cosby kid face. He's totally against the stereotype that most people have about young black males. Very articulate parents, who are also determined, just as Mamie was, to make sure that this case is not forgotten, that the investigation is done, and that justice is also served. And so, I see them asthey're sort ofthey're very much like Mamie was. They are absolutely determined to make sure that everything is done. And I think that that's the parallel that I see.

JUAN GONZALEZ: Well, the death of Emmett Till and the public outrage and the mass outpouring that occurred after his death is often credited as being sort of the beginning of the modern civil rights movement. Your thoughts that here we are, more than half-a-century later, and supposedly all the progress that has been made in race relations in the country, and yet these incidents like the one with Trayvon Martin, like the one we reported about of the marine veteran in Westchester County, continue to happen? And you made the distinction in some of your writings about the "walking while black" is also very distinct for what happens to African-American men versus African-American women. I'm wondering if you could talk about both of those things.

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: I think "walking while black" for men, they're more in fear of being killed. We, as women, are disrespected. And I think I wrote about that in my article. I was taken forif I was standing on the street at a certainat night, or even sometimes in the daytime, if I'm standing alone, I was immediatelythere was an assumption that I was a prostitute sort of plying my trade, and I was approached very disrespectfully by white men, mostly. African-American men, as I've said, are more in fear for their lives. I was just insulted constantly. And it's something that's in the back of your mind all the time. You're a little bit nervous about how you're being perceived, so you're always trying to behaveyou're always trying to be better than or even trying to beas Mamie told us, you're going to have to be superior. You're going to have to do so much better than anybody else would have to do, because people immediately expect you to bethey have a stereotype of you, and you're going to have to defy that. And you have that feeling all of the time. And that's for black men and black women.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And this question of the progress made versus the progress not made?

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: I don't feel as thoughI mean, I live with this every day, and I think a lot of people forget this. I don't know how much progress has been made. We lookevery now and then we see someone who makes it. We have Obama. We have thesewe have things like that. But your everyday life, your day-to-day life, if you're an African-American woman or man, you still feel the things that my parents felt. You're still nervous about the things that my parents were nervous about. You're still mistakenor, you're still treated the way that my parents were afraid that I would be treated. It's just an everyday thing for me. So, for those who think that it's over, they're not walking in our shoes. We know what goes on every day. We feel this every day.

AMY GOODMAN: In February 2000, we broadcast Mamie Till Mobley, the mother of Emmett Till. She reflected on the painful moment when she learned about her son's murder.

MAMIE TILL MOBLEY: When we knew that Emmett was dead, our first actionwe couldn't take time to cry. As I announced to the family what was happening, of course there were screams. People were hitting the floor, and the hysteria was setting in. I remember standing, announcing that "We don't have time to cry now, we've got to do something. I don't know what to do, and you've got to help me come to make some decisions."

AMY GOODMAN: That was Mamie Till Mobley. Your final thoughts on this, Cynthia Dagnal-Myron?

CYNTHIA DAGNAL-MYRON: First of all, my parents also took me to the Southsorry, my parents also took me to the South every summer so that I would witness how they had grown up, would drink from colored fountains and not be able to go into movie theaters or to have to go in the back doors of restaurants. And the fact that we are still talking about these things now, the fact that we are still having the experiences that we're having, when I listen to Mamie, what she was saying just now, and I realize that this has happened again, now, after all this time, I don't know what to say. I'm outraged, and I'm sad.

[Peter Lemkin]

AMY GOODMAN: I also want to bring into this conversation the Pulitzer Prize-winning author, poet, activist, Alice Walker. In a moment, we're going to be talking about the death of Adrienne Rich and her significance. But first, Alice, thank you so much for joining us at this early hour in Berkeley, California. And I wanted to ask you about your thoughts on the death of Trayvon Martin.

ALICE WALKER: A great deal of sadness, of course, and also a real deepening and ever-flowing love for my people, because we've suffered so much from just this kind of news about our children, about our families, about our fathers and our mothers. So I send out to all of us a very big, warm, loveloving hug, because we need it. We have been abused for such a long time here in this very misguided civilization. I think, too, that what moved me was that he's from Sanford, and this is a part of Zora Neale Hurston's home territory, so it feels very special to me.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about Zora Neale Hurston, a woman who you have made an alliance with after her death. Her grave, you restored. Zora Neale Hurston, the great author, Their Eyes Were Watching God.

ALICE WALKER: Well, Zora was from that part of the world, and she was from it before it became such a nightmare. She lived in the all-black town of Eatonville, Florida, which is 10 miles from Sanford. And in fact, in her books, people are always going to Sanford or coming from Sanford. So she made a special effort to understand them and to preserve for us some of the ways of these people, and they were really wonderful people. You know, they had not been so tortured, because they did not have white authority always on their necks. And this is one of the reasons we love her. We love her because she's one of the few African Americans who grew up in a situation where she could fully be herself. And so herself was this quite vibrant, wonderful person.

AMY GOODMAN: It's remarkable to remember these women on this last days of Women's History Month, but Mamie Till, Zora Neale Hurston. Zora Neale Hurston studied with Margaret Mead and Franz Boas anthropology at Columbia. She was a famous writer, but went home to Eatonvilleher mother, we believe, is buried right in Sanford, actuallybut died a pauper, which is how you got involved, Alice.

ALICE WALKER: Well, I did, because I loved her book, Their Eyes Were Watching God, so much, and also I used some of her work in one of my early short stories. I couldn't believe that she had died penniless and had been buried in a place that no one knew where it was, so I decided that, as her spiritual descendant, it was my responsibility to go and find her grave and to put a marker there, which I did. And I'm very happy to have done it. I think she was so free that maybe she wouldn't have cared, but I think, for all of us, when people give us so much, the least we can do is to offer some form of remembrance and appreciation.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And Alice, having traveled through that area decades after she lived there, does it surprise you, this latest incident that's happened in Sanford?

ALICE WALKER: Well, I think it's happening a lot in places other than Sanford also, and I think it's a symptom of our illness. We are verywe are a very sick country. And our racism is a manifestation of our illness and the ways that we don't delve into our own wrecks. You know, I mean, weas a country, we are a wreck. And part of it is that we have never looked to see where it was we went off the trail, you know. So, as shocking, as painfulI could barely look at what had happened for several days. And now I am looking at it, and I justyou know, I feel so much for this young man, because he was beautiful, and he was ours. And I don't mean just, you know, ours, black people, but all of ours. I mean, these children, they are our future, and they have to be protected.

And I also feel that what is happening, people seem so mystified about why Zimmerman has not been arrested. But if he's arrested, the police department is in big trouble. So, he knows so much about that police department. And I would think, too, that he should be under some kind of guard now. And if I were his family, that is what I would be concentrating on, if they care about him, keeping him alive, so that whatever happens, he will be able to speak.

[Keith Millea]

The death of a homeless woman in St. Louis, Missouri, last year is now drawing national scrutiny over revelations of how she died in police custody. Twenty-nine-year-old Anna Brown had gone to the hospital seeking emergency medical treatment for leg pain. When she refused to leave the emergency ward, she was carried to jail by her arms and ankles and left on the floor of her cell. Within 15 minutes, she had stopped moving and was soon after pronounced dead. The officers who arrested her reportedly suspected she was at the hospital seeking drugs. But an autopsy later revealed she had had blood clots in her legs and lungs and had no drugs in her system. The St. Louis police never announced Brown's death. Her story only came to light six months later after an anonymous caller tipped off the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper. Brown, who was African American, was the mother of two children. Her family is reportedly considering bringing a wrongful death suit against the hospital and police.

Full story with video of Anna Brown and her arrest/death.Too sad.....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime...e9677.html

[Lauren Johnson]

The death of a homeless woman in St. Louis, Missouri, last year is now drawing national scrutiny over revelations of how she died in police custody. Twenty-nine-year-old Anna Brown had gone to the hospital seeking emergency medical treatment for leg pain. When she refused to leave the emergency ward, she was carried to jail by her arms and ankles and left on the floor of her cell. Within 15 minutes, she had stopped moving and was soon after pronounced dead. The officers who arrested her reportedly suspected she was at the hospital seeking drugs. But an autopsy later revealed she had had blood clots in her legs and lungs and had no drugs in her system. The St. Louis police never announced Brown's death. Her story only came to light six months later after an anonymous caller tipped off the St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper. Brown, who was African American, was the mother of two children. Her family is reportedly considering bringing a wrongful death suit against the hospital and police.

Full story with video of Anna Brown and her arrest/death.Too sad.....

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime...e9677.html

The family will win the suit. I used to do ultrasound back in the day. It doesn't take much to get a venous ultrasound out of the ER with people complaining of leg pain. Clots are very easy find. I once saw a clot waving in the blood. I quite right there; called the radiologist; I wheeled her to her hospital bed where we gently lifted her. That family is going to get a lot of money.