Ukraine to declare war on Russia?

[Lauren Johnson]

Is the deep state ready to give Poroshenko the OK to declare war on Russia to establish "facts on the ground" anticipating a change the coming change of government in the US? Where would Turkey fit in? Here is a speculative read of the situation by V. Suchan.

A Ukrainian government representative in Minsk: The next step is to officially charge Russia of aggression against Ukraine and anchor this as a new recognized fact internationally. It was in part this very threat that has been used to get from Russia as many concessions as possible so far. This means that Ukraine tries to make this threat even more effective by threatening to turn into a fact and a deed or, if the US agrees, Kiev might at last go and officially charge Russia as an aggressor (which, by the way, Poroshenko and others already did in their speeches anyway)--but now in a way which would be tantamount to a declaration of war. Kiev can do this only with U.S. and NATO guarantees. The key incentive of Washington to undertake this might be in part driven by the obvious desire to establish new "facts on the ground" and draw new lines for the next administration so that whoever the next president will be, he or she would already be locked in a newly thus created legal and thus binding reality.

Moreover, if Ukraine does move ahead and declares war on Russia (with the U.S. and NATO officially or less officially announced "red lines" with respect to what Russia can or rather cannot do about it in response), the prospect would be open for Ukraine forming an alliance with Georgia and Turkey and perhaps also with (some of) the Baltic States, while NATO would flexibly define this not as an attack on one of the NATO members per se, but as a justifiable act of solidarity and the otherwise legitimate act of its individual members. In this case, the scenario described (revealed) by STRATFOR/its director Friedman would, indeed, be turned out to have true and valid--Friedman did "forecast" a two-prong push of "Poland" and Turkey into Russia's space leading to Russia's disintegration. If so, then the current purge of the commands of the Turkish Armed Forces, might be not so much (or only) a purge of officers whose loyalty to Erdogan has been suspect, but those who might have disagreed with this new radical venture and prospect. Putin's hasty "reconciliation" with Erdogan would then be a hastily (and likely short-lived) attempt by Putin and his clique to stave off this very threat and its prospect rather than Erdogan's ostensible "apology," which was framed merely as a form of humanitarian regret conveyed via Moscow to the families of the pilots. For Turkey, a formal reason for such alliance and support of Ukraine's crusade could be easily fabricated or found involving the Russian contingent in Syria or around the Karabah issue, since Turkey does treat Azerbaijan much like its ally already. In this regard, the promised official disavowal of al Qaeda by al Qaeda in Syria--al Nusra--would also make sense and "help"--for it could then spearhead transformation of some of the anti-Syrian "moderate rebels" into anti-Russian "moderate rebels" finding a common cause with Ukraine, Turkey, and Georgia. The gates to Hell are being opened.

[Magda Hassan]

Could be their last opportunity to get the upper hand. things no going s well in Turkey and with Brexit looming less control in the EU. Going to be a hard sell though. Plus the Ukraine can't even pay their teachers and other public servants. And moral is bad as it is.

[Lauren Johnson]

And Poroshenko may have gone to his villa in Spain. ::bluebaron::

Things are getting a little nutso. ::

[Magda Hassan]

He shouldn't be going on holidays out of the country in the state it is in. All sorts of things can happen while he is away. May not have a job to come back to for one.

[David Guyatt]

From The Duran:

Russia to retain relations with Kiev following Crimean incident

ALEXANDER MERCOURIS3 hours ago 0 143
In comments to Russia's Security Council, Russia's President Putin says Russia will not sever diplomatic relations with Kiev. However security both in Crimea and Donbass is being beefed up and to EU dismay the Russians are putting the Minsk II process on hold.

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In comments to Russia's Security Council that have been released today Russia's President Putin confirmed that Russia is not intending to cut off diplomatic relations with Kiev.
Putin has also appointed Dmitry Livanov, a former education minister, as Presidential envoy to Ukraine on trade and economic relations. This appointment implies that the Russians do not expect ambassadorial relations with Kiev to be re-established any time soon.
Ever since the recent Crimean incident tensions between Russia and Ukraine have been high with the Ukrainians and their media allies in the West talking up the possibility of a Russian attack on Ukraine to the greatest extent that they can.
A classic example of the genre was provided by this article in The Financial Times, filled with uncorroborated reports of Russian troop movements and feverish speculations about why Russia might be about to launch an invasion of Ukraine, which fails to mention the reasons for the sudden deterioration in relations between Moscow and Kiev the Crimean incident and the attempted murder of LPR chief Igor Plotnitsky in a single place.
This despite the fact that as even this convoluted article by the staunchly neocon and pro-Kiev Atlantic Council admits that in light of the capture of Yevgeny Panov there is no doubt that the Crimean incident really took place.

"Because of the arrest of Panov, it has become clear that the Armyansk incident was not invented by the FSB, as many have claimed online, though details provided are difficult to verify."

To be clear, the Crimean incident is the only act of violence perpetrated by Ukraine and Russia against each other this summer, and the perpetrators were the Ukrainians not the Russians.
The Western media does the Western public no service by floating wild speculations about the possible motives for the Russian reaction when those are entirely obvious instead of examining the reasons the Ukrainians acted in the reckless and dangerous way that they did.
The Russians have already said how they intend to react to this incident, and there is no secret about it.
Firstly, they are beefing up security in Crimea, along the border with which the Ukrainians have also placed their troops on high alert. Secondly, it is likely that the militias of the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics are being reinforced. That is what some of the troop movements reported by The Financial Times are probably about. Given the ongoing fighting there and the fact that the Ukrainian army has been placed on high alert in the same area, following the Crimean incident and the attempted murder of Plotnitsky that too looks like a basic precaution.
The Russians have also made their political response clear. They have called off the Normandy Four meeting which was due to take place at the G20 summit in September. There are also reports that they are now also on the brink of giving the Donetsk and Lugansk People's Republics the green light to hold elections, even though this has not been agreed by Kiev.
These last two steps have exposed the bluff behind the West's sanctions policy.
The EU linked the lifting of sanctions to the full implementation of the Minsk II agreement. If the Russians now walk away from the Minsk II agreement process, the EU will lose the pretext it has left itself to lift the sanctions. It will then be stuck with the sanctions, notwithstanding that they have obviously failed and that the Russians have shown that they don't ultimately care about them, despite the sanctions' growing unpopularity across Europe.
This is most definitely a situation the Europeans do not want to find themselves in, though it is one their own foolish actions have landed them into. The Germans especially seem to be pulling out the stops so that it does not happen. With the Russians still very angry and Putin reported to be saying that Russia's "partners" (ie. the US and EU) have acted to exacerbate the situation in Ukraine they will find it hard going.

The interesting bit for me is that Moscow have now apparently stuck two fingers up at the sanctions, which badly hurt several EU nations, but which have a negligible impact on the US who engineered them in the first place.

Talk about wounding your best friends just so you can spite your enemy.

[David Guyatt]

And following onward from my above comments, is the below article which plays to the same theme and which, of course, describes the alternative reality that might well have taken place in Europe at the end of the cold war had NATO's expansion eastwards not been the US's Trojan Horse designed specifically to stop the EU and Russia from forming such an alliance - which has always been the great fear of the US as described by Stratfor's George Friedman (HERE).

Published on August 19, 2016
Comments 15

French General Calls for NATO's Liquidation

Sputnik

NATO's present format and the alliance's continuing expansion eastward is beneficial only to the United States, which seeks to keep Russia and Europe at odds, says retired French Army General Jean-Bernard Pinatel. Accordingly, he suggests the alliance be liquidated or Europeanized', and the creation of a European-Russian alliance against terror.
Interviewed by Le Figaro, Pinatel, a retired officer who now works as an expert in geopolitics and economic intelligence, recalled that if Russia and the European countries had succeeded in forming an alliance in the 1990s, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, they would have been able to effectively challenge US pretentions to global hegemony.
Now, the retired general emphasized, the threat of radical Islamist terrorism has once against opened a discussion on global leadership, and whether the US truly deserves its hegemonic position in Europe. According to Pinatel, the spate of attacks in Europe has clearly demonstrated to the French, and to other NATO members, that the US-led alliance is helpless in the struggle against the terrorist threat.
Moreover, against the background of NATO's ineffectiveness is the example being set by Moscow, which, according to the expert, is once again forcing the French to consider an alliance with their eastern neighbor.
"This evidence, obtained at the cost of 234 civilians killed and 671 wounded since 2012, should not only jolt NATO, but lead to its total liquidation, or its full Europeanization, since the current policy of the alliance serves only interests which are not those of France," Pinatel noted.
The general also recalled that Russia has repeatedly proposed cooperation with the United States in a coordinated campaign in Syria against Daesh and the Nusra Front terrorists, but has been refused, under the pretext that the so-called moderate opposition' still had potential.
As a result, he noted, the Middle East is witnessing the formation of a new equilibrium. "Russia, which has always been present in the region historically, is returning there once again. China, for the first time, is also actively poking its nose in the region. And only France, having once been privileged with the position of mediator, has lost everything under the patronage of the United States."
The officer emphasized that he believes that Russian and French geostrategic and economic interests are "completely complementary" to one another, and that the history of the two countries has shown periods of fruitful cooperation and friendship, most recently during the Second World War.
Ultimately, "the US desire to return the atmosphere of the Cold War to Europe is being carried out through NATO, and serves the interests of the Americans, as well as incompetent and corrupt European leaders," not those of the European people, Pinatel concluded.

Source

Time for another airing of this I think:

[Magda Hassan]

:hock:: WTF was that?! There were some supremely uncomfortable people in that clip.

[David Guyatt]

:hock:: WTF was that?! There were some supremely uncomfortable people in that clip.

Masters of the Universe rejoicing that they are THE world at the NATO conference 2015 in Turkey, thanks to Thierry Meyssan's Voltaire who noted in his accompanying article (HERE) that rather than it being the triumph of of the US over the rest of the world it was in fact the beginning of its downfall. It's an interesting article. General Breedlove was also singing in that video along with several ministers of defence.

"Pride goeth before a fall" was the proverb that sprung to mind.