Clifton tape and Collins Radio Doug Horne

[Dawn Meredith]

Each must be judged on its own merits. The death of Roger Craig, for example, has no bearing on that of William Pitzer.

What the hell is that supposed to translate to or mean?!?!? Are you for surreal?

Both were IMHO bumped off for knowing the wrong [correct] things. As were so very many others!

By the way, where do mockingbirds fly during winter?

Peter, NO one here is going to change Allan's mind. We had this discussion online somewhere years ago when I was up on that case and Alan's differing view.

We believe what we believe and he does not. I wonder about his view on other witnesses. Some thing Craig committed suicide, which to me is lunacy on its face.

Dawn

[Peter Lemkin]

Each must be judged on its own merits. The death of Roger Craig, for example, has no bearing on that of William Pitzer.

What the hell is that supposed to translate to or mean?!?!? Are you for surreal?

Both were IMHO bumped off for knowing the wrong [correct] things. As were so very many others!

By the way, where do mockingbirds fly during winter?

Peter, NO one here is going to change Allan's mind. We had this discussion online somewhere years ago when I was up on that case and Alan's differing view.

We believe what we believe and he does not. I wonder about his view on other witnesses. Some thing Craig committed suicide, which to me is lunacy on its face.

Dawn

Well, some think that Oswald was not a patsy, but the lone shooter from all three or four firing locations (while drinking a coke calmly in he lunchroom) - and even did the surgery of the head area; asked his pal Ruby to shoot him, bumped off Tippit from several blocks away posing as two men; and went to USSR just for the heck of it (which explains why he wasn't met by FBI etc. upon return). Others (and most of the former) also think the world is flat and the moon made of green cheese; and America is a great and noble country that never does any wrong - less so its intelligence goons and the rich and powerful.

[Allan Eaglesham]

Each must be judged on its own merits. The death of Roger Craig, for example, has no bearing on that of William Pitzer.

What the hell is that supposed to translate to or mean?!?!? Are you for surreal?

Both were IMHO bumped off for knowing the wrong [correct] things. As were so very many others!

By the way, where do mockingbirds fly during winter?

Peter, NO one here is going to change Allan's mind. We had this discussion online somewhere years ago when I was up on that case and Alan's differing view.

We believe what we believe and he does not. I wonder about his view on other witnesses. Some thing Craig committed suicide, which to me is lunacy on its face.

Dawn

Not so, Dawn. I am open to changing my mind, on the basis of sound information. When I started looking at the Pitzer case, I thought it likely that he had been murdered, on the basis of Dennis David's belief that his friend had been left-handed. I did not set out to prove that he had killed himself, but to understand -- to the extent possible -- how he died. The FOIA information released by the FBI suggested that he had two bullet wounds, one in the right temple and one in the left temple, which strongly indicated homicide (although it was clear by then that he had been right-handed). The death-scene photograph, obtained via FOIA by son Robert Pitzer, with my help, showed what looked like a wound in the left temple. At that point, I was all but convinced that he had been murdered. When, eventually, the autopsy photographs were obtained by Robert, again with my help, revealing no wound in the left temple (only that blood had pooled there) and showing that the wound in the right temple was a contact shot, I changed my mind. I shared the autopsy photographs with forensic experts Cyril Wecht and Herbert MacDonell, without telling them that they showed the body of William Pitzer, and they reinforced my opinion: both said that the autopsy photographs indicate suicide.

So what to do? Sit on my hands and stay mum about what the autopsy photographs show, and pretend that I still believe that Pitzer had been murdered?

Sure, homicide makes a much more sexy story. But opinion -- however humble -- based on one man's claim to have been asked to terminate Pitzer 14 months before the death just don't cut it.

You might find this of interest:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/Article-8.html

[Albert Doyle]

The elephant in Allan's room is the pictures. What happened to the pictures if he wasn't killed for them? Your jigsaw puzzle has several conspicuously-missing pieces Allan. One of the biggest missing pieces is Dan Marvin - whom you are calling a liar.

The obvious here is that Pitzer climbed the step-ladder to retrieve the photos and was then suicided after turning them over. They then did the full depression/marital relations defamation on him. Their usual routine.

[Allan Eaglesham]

The elephant in Allan's room is the pictures. What happened to the pictures if he wasn't killed for them? Your jigsaw puzzle has several conspicuously-missing pieces Allan. One of the biggest missing pieces is Dan Marvin - whom you are calling a liar.

The obvious here is that Pitzer climbed the step-ladder to retrieve the photos and was then suicided after turning them over. They then did the full depression/marital relations defamation on him. Their usual routine.

William Pitzer died in a TV studio. As with all TV studios, overhead lights needed stepladders to access them. Two stepladders were propped against a support stanchion. The bloodspatter pattern shows that he bled onto the floor while seated. He then slipped onto the floor, his head contacted the lowest step of the ladder which moved forward and his head landed on the floor partly under the step. There is no evidence that he retrieved photos; that is a fantasy dreamed up by LTC Marvin. Did you read the link I provided in my last post?

There is no evidence that Pitzer had photographs and movie film of the dead president beyond a few days after the assassination. Current absence of availability of those photographs proves nothing. They were probably the photographs seen by Saundra Spencer and Joe O'Donnell, taken at the pre-autopsy at Bethesda. They may have been taken by LCDR Pitzer -- which Dennis David assumed -- but equally they may have been taken by John Stringer.

[Albert Doyle]

William Pitzer died in a TV studio. As with all TV studios, overhead lights needed stepladders to access them. Two stepladders were propped against a support stanchion. The bloodspatter pattern shows that he bled onto the floor while seated. He then slipped onto the floor, his head contacted the lowest step of the ladder which moved forward and his head landed on the floor partly under the step. There is no evidence that he retrieved photos; that is a fantasy dreamed up by LTC Marvin. Did you read the link I provided in my last post?

Yes. Its main reference was several FBI reports. Allan, do you understand the FBI's role in the Kennedy Assassination??? Have YOU read the material on this?

I suppose the CIA went to freshly-trained Dan Marvin and asked him to kill Pitzer as some sort of game or test?

Nothing in the body positioning you cite precludes CIA assassination.

There is no evidence that Pitzer had photographs and movie film of the dead president beyond a few days after the assassination. Current absence of availability of those photographs proves nothing. They were probably the photographs seen by Saundra Spencer and Joe O'Donnell, taken at the pre-autopsy at Bethesda. They may have been taken by LCDR Pitzer -- which Dennis David assumed -- but equally they may have been taken by John Stringer.

Very weak. Dennis David said Pitzer came out into the hallway and grabbed him in order to show him an assembly of frames he had isolated showing wounds on Kennedy that were other than what the official autopsy was claiming. David looked into a viewer and saw a shot from the front near Kennedy's right temple. I believe the occipital blow-out was seen as well.

As is typical of McAdams-like devil's advocates you exert a strict demand for "proof" too quickly against the obvious. Pitzer's strange death perfectly fits the pattern of other known witnesses. And, of course, since there wasn't supposed to be any "pre-autopsy" according to the official record then any films taken at it would very likely contain images of wounds other than those admitted. Which once again demands the question of what happened to them? And how could anyone deny they would represent strong motive for murder?

All this really makes no difference and the strong motive for murder and its accompanying pattern is what hasn't been disproven here.

The photos just didn't vanish. If they existed and were innocent they would have been strong proof against claims of murder.

The key to false objectivity is how many persons with no motive to lie they call liars.

[Peter Lemkin]

Each must be judged on its own merits. The death of Roger Craig, for example, has no bearing on that of William Pitzer.

What the hell is that supposed to translate to or mean?!?!? Are you for surreal?

Both were IMHO bumped off for knowing the wrong [correct] things. As were so very many others!

By the way, where do mockingbirds fly during winter?

Peter, NO one here is going to change Allan's mind. We had this discussion online somewhere years ago when I was up on that case and Alan's differing view.

We believe what we believe and he does not. I wonder about his view on other witnesses. Some thing Craig committed suicide, which to me is lunacy on its face.

Dawn

Not so, Dawn. I am open to changing my mind, on the basis of sound information. When I started looking at the Pitzer case, I thought it likely that he had been murdered, on the basis of Dennis David's belief that his friend had been left-handed. I did not set out to prove that he had killed himself, but to understand -- to the extent possible -- how he died. The FOIA information released by the FBI suggested that he had two bullet wounds, one in the right temple and one in the left temple, which strongly indicated homicide (although it was clear by then that he had been right-handed). The death-scene photograph, obtained via FOIA by son Robert Pitzer, with my help, showed what looked like a wound in the left temple. At that point, I was all but convinced that he had been murdered. When, eventually, the autopsy photographs were obtained by Robert, again with my help, revealing no wound in the left temple (only that blood had pooled there) and showing that the wound in the right temple was a contact shot, I changed my mind. I shared the autopsy photographs with forensic experts Cyril Wecht and Herbert MacDonell, without telling them that they showed the body of William Pitzer, and they reinforced my opinion: both said that the autopsy photographs indicate suicide.

So what to do? Sit on my hands and stay mum about what the autopsy photographs show, and pretend that I still believe that Pitzer had been murdered?

Sure, homicide makes a much more sexy story. But opinion -- however humble -- based on one man's claim to have been asked to terminate Pitzer 14 months before the death just don't cut it.

You might find this of interest:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/Article-8.html

a classic case of tunnel vision and the inability to see both the details of an individual case, the overall gestalt of the panoply of cases and the odds of this happening to those who just happened to have information in conflict with the official bullshit. Sorry Allan, I lack respect for your system of analysis and conclusions drawn. At best a pedant researcher with tunnel vision. Nothing personal. Your bias and blinders to dis-allow you to see conspiracy to silence, and your proclivity to see a normal death or suicide [not 'suicided'] are showing and telling. There are others like you and I find the bunch of you logically and statistically illiterate - sorry. Let me guess, you believe the WTC towers fell from fire and effects of the plane crashes; ditto collapse and damage to Pentagon from one plane flown by man who couldn't fly a Sesna.....the pattern of the 'liberal' thinker. Maybe Russo needs some research help - or the 6th floor mausoleum. This is WAR and you are giving aide and comfort to the enemy.

[Albert Doyle]

While congressman Albert Thomas probably wasn't in on the actual mechanical conspiracy I can't help but see his eye wink as symbolic of "The fix is in" and "We're swapping the body while you're being sworn-in"...

[Allan Eaglesham]

What the hell is that supposed to translate to or mean?!?!? Are you for surreal?

Both were IMHO bumped off for knowing the wrong [correct] things. As were so very many others!

By the way, where do mockingbirds fly during winter?

Peter, NO one here is going to change Allan's mind. We had this discussion online somewhere years ago when I was up on that case and Alan's differing view.

We believe what we believe and he does not. I wonder about his view on other witnesses. Some thing Craig committed suicide, which to me is lunacy on its face.

Dawn

Not so, Dawn. I am open to changing my mind, on the basis of sound information. When I started looking at the Pitzer case, I thought it likely that he had been murdered, on the basis of Dennis David's belief that his friend had been left-handed. I did not set out to prove that he had killed himself, but to understand -- to the extent possible -- how he died. The FOIA information released by the FBI suggested that he had two bullet wounds, one in the right temple and one in the left temple, which strongly indicated homicide (although it was clear by then that he had been right-handed). The death-scene photograph, obtained via FOIA by son Robert Pitzer, with my help, showed what looked like a wound in the left temple. At that point, I was all but convinced that he had been murdered. When, eventually, the autopsy photographs were obtained by Robert, again with my help, revealing no wound in the left temple (only that blood had pooled there) and showing that the wound in the right temple was a contact shot, I changed my mind. I shared the autopsy photographs with forensic experts Cyril Wecht and Herbert MacDonell, without telling them that they showed the body of William Pitzer, and they reinforced my opinion: both said that the autopsy photographs indicate suicide.

So what to do? Sit on my hands and stay mum about what the autopsy photographs show, and pretend that I still believe that Pitzer had been murdered?

Sure, homicide makes a much more sexy story. But opinion -- however humble -- based on one man's claim to have been asked to terminate Pitzer 14 months before the death just don't cut it.

You might find this of interest:

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Pitzer/Article-8.html

a classic case of tunnel vision and the inability to see both the details of an individual case, the overall gestalt of the panoply of cases and the odds of this happening to those who just happened to have information in conflict with the official bullshit. Sorry Allan, I lack respect for your system of analysis and conclusions drawn. At best a pedant researcher with tunnel vision. Nothing personal. Your bias and blinders to dis-allow you to see conspiracy to silence, and your proclivity to see a normal death or suicide [not 'suicided'] are showing and telling. There are others like you and I find the bunch of you logically and statistically illiterate - sorry. Let me guess, you believe the WTC towers fell from fire and effects of the plane crashes; ditto collapse and damage to Pentagon from one plane flown by man who couldn't fly a Sesna.....the pattern of the 'liberal' thinker. Maybe Russo needs some research help - or the 6th floor mausoleum. This is WAR and you are giving aide and comfort to the enemy.

Let me guess: you never met a conspiracy theory you didn't like.

[Peter Lemkin]

The elephant in Allan's room is the pictures. What happened to the pictures if he wasn't killed for them? Your jigsaw puzzle has several conspicuously-missing pieces Allan. One of the biggest missing pieces is Dan Marvin - whom you are calling a liar.

The obvious here is that Pitzer climbed the step-ladder to retrieve the photos and was then suicided after turning them over. They then did the full depression/marital relations defamation on him. Their usual routine.

William Pitzer died in a TV studio. As with all TV studios, overhead lights needed stepladders to access them. Two stepladders were propped against a support stanchion. The bloodspatter pattern shows that he bled onto the floor while seated. He then slipped onto the floor, his head contacted the lowest step of the ladder which moved forward and his head landed on the floor partly under the step. There is no evidence that he retrieved photos; that is a fantasy dreamed up by LTC Marvin. Did you read the link I provided in my last post?

There is no evidence that Pitzer had photographs and movie film of the dead president beyond a few days after the assassination. Current absence of availability of those photographs proves nothing. They were probably the photographs seen by Saundra Spencer and Joe O'Donnell, taken at the pre-autopsy at Bethesda. They may have been taken by LCDR Pitzer -- which Dennis David assumed -- but equally they may have been taken by John Stringer.

And Dr. Mary Murphy was found in bed but died miles away in her lab...'they' know how to fake death scenes - Chappaquiddick is one of thousands I could list. You only need native logic, but if one knows statistics one knows that the majority of the 'suspicious' deaths are deaths of convenience. Studying each one to the nth degree to try to find niggling things to deny them is only a parlor trick to back into the official version. IMHO. Let's put it this way, it is easy to see which side you WANT to be on.