That was me talking to John about that... Asst Principal HEAD says both things in the FBI telling of it. He first says it's the TOTAL number of school days, then he says it's the number Oswald attended.
Very true, but if we're to believe anything about these reports, only the second description is possible since the total days (Re Ad) for 1954-55 are less than the required number of school days for the state of LA.
David Josephs Wrote:We have to deal with one of two realities: These records are accurate OR these records were created. If created - which is most likely - then the conflicts betray the forgery... if they are accurate, they illuminate the conflicts with other records that were created (NYC school records).. Either way, some or all of these records which are all COPIES of COPIES with no originals available - were created after the fact. (NOTE: the HSCA handwritting experts spell out how the process of copying and altering is why they cannot make a definitvie conclusion about NON-ORIGINAL examined materials. NONE of these records are original... purposefully.
The records HAD to be forged, or at least altered, if it is correct that the FBI was trying to merge two kids into one. What's odd, though, is that they didn't do a more logical job. If you were going to create school attendance and grade records out of thin air, wouldn't you get yourself a school calendar and make something that makes sense? And would it be too much to make the individual and cumulative records match, reasonably closely?
David Josephs Wrote:Why I even argued that the 89+1 days for the FALL term does not look correct is the GRADE CARDS related to those two classes.. There are a number of things wrong about these cards that suggest they were created via copying after the fact...
1) Room 303 as a homeroom was only for 9th graders.. that these 8th grade cards also show 303 suggests they were created after the fact. (here are all the cards for BJHS: CE1413 http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc..._0419b.htm
2) in the SPRING TERM we have 3 term grades that represent the entire semester. in the FALL TERM we only have the one TERM REPORT... While this still suggests that OSWALD attended prior to January 13, 1954 I do not see it indicative of 89 days of attendance for those 2 classes...
3) The grade cards do not match the attendance info. Science has 1 while PE has 2 absences.. (you will also notice that CE1413 shows the 54-55 grades yet shows a range of 5-9 days absent... NONE of the grade cards show 12 days absent... (see below)
4) Also shown in the image below is that the grades from General Math also do not match the permenant record
5) From 1/13/54 to 6/4/54 is 90 days as shown on the BJHS record.. yet for OSWALD to attend 89 days IN THE FALL he must start on September 1, 1953 which I believe was about 2 weeks prior to the actual start... Labor Day that year was Sept 7. In NY, PS44 started 9/14/53 are there are indeed 69 days attended thru 1/4 when we ASSUME Oswlad stopped going to PS44 and left for NOLA and MO's sister Lillian's. (Note: MO had no car.. HOW they got from NY to NOLA - with a possible side trip to Ft Worth - is unknown) The conflicting school records that appears copied from form to form - which was supposed to be a single form to follow the child thru NYC schools - is at the bottom.
6) As JA mentions, there is no PS 44 - BYRON JHS (Oswald will also list Ridglea West JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL & Arlington HS on forms (Ridglea was his elementary school) which makes finding previous records very difficult)
Some of these problems may or may not be as contradictory as they seem. I taught jr. high school for two years before I entered the publishing biz, and there is a lot of near chaos in some of these situations. For example, attendance records for any classes other than home rooms are notoriously inaccurate. Teachers not in home rooms often don't know all the kids by name, giving the opportunity for all sorts of student mischief, class cutting, substitutions (sheesh!) etc. Kids are often counted when they're not there and sometimes even missed when they are. Generally, attendance records are posted by home room records and supplemented by the office for tardies, half-day absences, illness, etc.
By the same token, setting up floor-by-floor grade levels is fine until the numbers of needed classrooms don't add up to the available spaces and suddenly a change is needed, though I see no indication whatsoever that something like that happened in this case. I wouldn't bet the NYC school calendars match others from middle America, either. Here in the Midwest, many public schools start before Labor Day, some in mid-August. Don't know about New Orleans, though.
David Josephs Wrote:The summer of 1953 remains one of the most intriguing and under-documented period on Oswald's young life. The maid, Louise Robertson, tells us the OSwalds moved in the summer of 1953, Robert tells us he visits the Oswalds that summer and takes the famous Zoo photo while denying he was there in Nov 1952 (John Pic tells a different story)... Then there is the North Dakota testimony, the belief by MO's sister Lillian that they first went to Ft Worth
John has become even more skeptical about Ms. Robertson, though he questioned in the book how HARVEY's "mother," always seeming to live hand to mouth, could have afforded a maid. Robert probably believed he was doing his patriotic duty when he testified, but he made some obvious slip-ups; Stripling School, for example. "What tangled lives we lead when at first we do deceive," eh?
26-09-2013, 12:48 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2013, 01:08 AM by David Josephs.)
Jim Hargrove Wrote:
Phil Dragoo Wrote:David
.... You have demonstrated Beauregard Civics instructor Ada Clark and its Science instructor S. Busch have the same handwriting
....
Hi, Phil,
I'm getting eye strain trying to see the above. Can you give me a hint where to look in the records David posted?
Jim
Give me a minute Jim... I will do an overlay and show you and everyone else... Phil has a GREAT eye...
DJ
Not only is the writing VERY similar... the names of the Science teacher at the top of the card is not the same as the bottom (R. Beaver and S. Bush - hey... did someone pull a pretty suggestive joke at our expense here... or was that vernacular more recent ?? )
Jim... there was what looks like only 5 absences not 12... someone must have known the 180 day rule... Please address the FACT only one term report appears for both part-time classes... STILL suggests he was there during that term.. only means to me that possibly HARVEY did not enter BJHS until much later in the year (Nov/Dec) and may have spent time in Ft Worth or elsewhere those months... sorry, I am still not convinced the 179 plus 5 absences is an accurate reflection of ANY child's time there, let alone indicative of a child having been there the entire FALL TERM... but only a part of it.
I am inclined to first believe the "89" is part of the forgery and designed to have it add to 180 again and NOT the # of days HARVEY attended BJHS in the FALL... but he DID attend while he was supposedly at PS44 in NYC....
and that's the important point.
DJ
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5317[/ATTACH]
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
David Josephs Wrote:Give me a minute Jim... I will do an overlay and show you and everyone else... Phil has a GREAT eye...
DJ
Not only is the writing VERY similar... the names of the Science teacher at the top of the card is not the same as the bottom (R. Beaver and S. Bush - hey... did someone pull a pretty suggestive joke at our expense here... or was that vernacular more recent ?? )
This almost makes it sound like the real science teacher was trying to be funny. Have you ever seen any humor (crude or otherwise) EVER displayed by anyone in the FBI? No idea when those terms came into our lexicon, but it sure sounds like a joke.
David Josephs Wrote:Jim... there was what looks like only 5 absences not 12... someone must have known the 180 day rule... Please address the FACT only one term report appears for both part-time classes... STILL suggests he was there during that term.. only means to me that possibly HARVEY did not enter BJHS until much later in the year (Nov/Dec) and may have spent time in Ft Worth or elsewhere those months... sorry, I am still not convinced the 179 plus 5 absences is an accurate reflection of ANY child's time there, let alone indicative of a child having been there the entire FALL TERM... but only a part of it.
That's not so clear to me. The 53-54 Science report seems to indicate an isolated grade of 70 for the FIRST TERM, and then the card seems to be cut off where the second term info would be. Did you cut that off, or is that how it appears in the WC? Grades for both terms are shown for Phys Ed.
David Josephs Wrote:I am inclined to first believe the "89" is part of the forgery and designed to have it add to 180 again and NOT the # of days HARVEY attended BJHS in the FALL... but he DID attend while he was supposedly at PS44 in NYC....
and that's the important point.
But 89 days weren't needed if the goal was to reach 180. Look at the second term: 90 days present plus 4 days absent. I'm guessing, but I'm not sure fall and spring terms had to have an equal number of days. The lengthy Christmas vacation occurs in the fall term, plus New Year's, so perhaps it was a little shorter, but these records are strange indeed!!
David Josephs Wrote:Give me a minute Jim... I will do an overlay and show you and everyone else... Phil has a GREAT eye...
DJ
Not only is the writing VERY similar... the names of the Science teacher at the top of the card is not the same as the bottom (R. Beaver and S. Bush - hey... did someone pull a pretty suggestive joke at our expense here... or was that vernacular more recent ?? )
This almost makes it sound like the real science teacher was trying to be funny. Have you ever seen any humor (crude or otherwise) EVER displayed by anyone in the FBI? No idea when those terms came into our lexicon, but it sure sounds like a joke.
David Josephs Wrote:Jim... there was what looks like only 5 absences not 12... someone must have known the 180 day rule... Please address the FACT only one term report appears for both part-time classes... STILL suggests he was there during that term.. only means to me that possibly HARVEY did not enter BJHS until much later in the year (Nov/Dec) and may have spent time in Ft Worth or elsewhere those months... sorry, I am still not convinced the 179 plus 5 absences is an accurate reflection of ANY child's time there, let alone indicative of a child having been there the entire FALL TERM... but only a part of it.
That's not so clear to me. The 53-54 Science report seems to indicate an isolated grade of 70 for the FIRST TERM, and then the card seems to be cut off where the second term info would be. Did you cut that off, or is that how it appears in the WC? Grades for both terms are shown for Phys Ed.
Jim - the comparison I am making is between the SPRING 54 TERM where we know a child attended since 1-13-54 shows 3 TERM REPORTS.
The two classes from the FALL TERM (if they were indeed from the fall term) only have 1 TERM REPORT before the final TERM grade. (yes - the card is cut off yet all I wanted to show was the 1 TERM report)
If you can, reconcile why one FULL TERM's GRADES do not mirror another FULL TERM's grades as they do for the rest of his time at BJHS. If he was attending BJHS from day one FALL TERM we should expect to see 3 TERM REPRTS for just those two classes and no grades for anything else. That's not what we see. I am NOT syaing HARVEY didn't attend in the FALL, just that these cards suggest he did not start at the beginning of the TERM -
My concern is if the SPRING TERM does not start until later, these 2 FALL grades could be for a 4-5 week period AFTER 1-13-54 and not be related to HARVEY at all. Even DeRouse did not see HARVEY in the FALL and the PE absences are 2, not 1. What happened to the other absence from this FALL term on the final cumulative form? (like the 12 absences for the next year yet only 5 recorded on most of the grade cards)
David Josephs Wrote:I am inclined to first believe the "89" is part of the forgery and designed to have it add to 180 again and NOT the # of days HARVEY attended BJHS in the FALL... but he DID attend while he was supposedly at PS44 in NYC....
and that's the important point.
But 89 days weren't needed if the goal was to reach 180. Look at the second term: 90 days present plus 4 days absent. I'm guessing, but I'm not sure fall and spring terms had to have an equal number of days. The lengthy Christmas vacation occurs in the fall term, plus New Year's, so perhaps it was a little shorter, but these records are strange indeed!!
The MINIMUM was 180... that school year had 184 days imo, and I still believe the Re-Ad column represents TOTAL DAYS in the school year... there does not seem to be any record of ATTENDED DAYS in the BJHS records... does it not make sense to put "absences" and "total days" and not worry about attended days which SHOULD always be a very large # (TOTAL - Absent). That NYC kept records of days attended is still unknown - have you ever seen another of either form for any other student?
That would help settle quite a lot.
DJ
Jim
I think I need to add this line so it will take my post... I guess if you post within another post it doesn't recognize any new characters...
DJ
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
David Josephs Wrote:The MINIMUM was 180... that school year had 184 days imo, and I still believe the Re-Ad column represents TOTAL DAYS in the school year... there does not seem to be any record of ATTENDED DAYS in the BJHS records... does it not make sense to put "absences" and "total days" and not worry about attended days which SHOULD always be a very large # (TOTAL - Absent). That NYC kept records of days attended is still unknown - have you ever seen another of either form for any other student?
That would help settle quite a lot.
DJ
David,
We've been over this before. According to the FBI's description of the interview with Wilfred Head, Louisiana state law required 170 school days, but regularly there were 180 school days in a year, at least, I assume, for Beauregard and Warren.
How can you argue that the "RE AD" column equals total days in the school year when the summation "Re Ad" column for 1954-55 was only 168, two days less than the legal requirement of Louisiana, and 12 days less than the regular 180 days Head described? If the "Re Ad" column equaled, as you suggest, total school days available, then this report would be clear evidence that Beauregard JHS was violating Louisiana law! It doesn't make any sense, unless your goal is to dispute the 89 days of attendance indicated in the "Re Ad" for the fall term of 1953-54. The supporting docs for that term do look peculiar, but no sleight-of-hand can make those 89 days of attendance claimed by this Beauregard report disappear.
David Josephs Wrote:The MINIMUM was 180... that school year had 184 days imo, and I still believe the Re-Ad column represents TOTAL DAYS in the school year... there does not seem to be any record of ATTENDED DAYS in the BJHS records... does it not make sense to put "absences" and "total days" and not worry about attended days which SHOULD always be a very large # (TOTAL - Absent). That NYC kept records of days attended is still unknown - have you ever seen another of either form for any other student?
That would help settle quite a lot.
DJ
David,
We've been over this before. According to the FBI's description of the interview with Wilfred Head, Louisiana state law required 170 school days, but regularly there were 180 school days in a year, at least, I assume, for Beauregard and Warren.
How can you argue that the "RE AD" column equals total days in the school year when the summation "Re Ad" column for 1954-55 was only 168, two days less than the legal requirement of Louisiana, and 12 days less than the regular 180 days Head described? If the "Re Ad" column equaled, as you suggest, total school days available, then this report would be clear evidence that Beauregard JHS was violating Louisiana law! It doesn't make any sense, unless your goal is to dispute the 89 days of attendance indicated in the "Re Ad" for the fall term of 1953-54. The supporting docs for that term do look peculiar, but no sleight-of-hand can make those 89 days of attendance claimed by this Beauregard report disappear.
JIm
Jim -
how does a FORGED DOCUMENT with FAKE INFO violate Louisiana law?
How do you reconcile 5 absences on most 54-55 grade cards yet 12 on the cumulative based on what?? (I see only that 168 + 12 = 180 ON A FORGERY that does not match the source info if THEY are not FOGERIES - if they are then someone at the FBI messed up real good)
Please tell us the number of days in the 54-55 school year in NOLA at BJHS... for OSWALD to have attended 89 out of 90 days IN THE FALL he would have to start Sept 1st and end January 12 - is that when BJHS classes started?
Do NEW TERMS usually begin on a WED 1/13/54 - did it in THIS case?
This is very important info to find before we can move on...
DJ
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
how does a FORGED DOCUMENT with FAKE INFO violate Louisiana law?
This document seemed important to you when you thought the "Re Ad" column meant total school days. Now that you recognize it means total days attended by Oswald it is no longer important? I don't understand.
David Josephs Wrote:How do you reconcile 5 absences on most 54-55 grade cards yet 12 on the cumulative based on what?? (I see only that 168 + 12 = 180 ON A FORGERY that does not match the source info if THEY are not FOGERIES - if they are then someone at the FBI messed up real good)
I'm not trying to reconcile anything; but if you want me to hazard a guess, I'd say the safest way to run a cover-up would be to modify only what what was necessary to maintain the ruse; in this case, that there were overlapping LHO attendance records indicating two separate kids. It took a long time for both of us to understand that there simply were not enough days in any fall term scenario to account for this conflict. The FBI probably missed it too--which probably explains why the anomaly remained in the record. All we have to go on are the things the FBI and WC neglected to hide; in other words, their mistakes.
David Josephs Wrote:Please tell us the number of days in the 54-55 school year in NOLA at BJHS... for OSWALD to have attended 89 out of 90 days IN THE FALL he would have to start Sept 1st and end January 12 - is that when BJHS classes started?
Do NEW TERMS usually begin on a WED 1/13/54 - did it in THIS case?
I have no idea, but I'd like to know as well. I found online school calendars at the NYC Board of Education website that went back to the mid-1970s, but not even that far back in New Orleans. But regardless of the school year calendars, the fact that the WC published records indicating that a Lee Harvey Oswald attended at least some classes for the full or nearly full 1953-54 fall term at both PS 44 in NYC and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans is undeniable, although we can argue the legitimacy of these records forever.
