The truth and bare facts about the Bay of Pigs

[Scott Kaiser]

Castro was evil; even worse than Batista. He needed to be taken out. The true Cold Warriors in the USG, and in particular Dulles and the CIA, knew this, and knew the Cuban people would rise up and fight. The BOP invasion would have worked and was fully intended to work had it not been for the half hearted Cold Warriors who were basically chicken. Sure, JFK wanted Castro gone. But he was not up to what was required. And now we have still have Castro, when we could have quickly dispatched him. The Cuban people would have been free. Did Castro have JFK killed like some Cubans think? More likely, the CIA did it. The man was a coward and betrayed his country.

Lauren: are you saying that Dulles was a coward, or Kennedy was? And who was chicken, Dulles and Co. or the military? Sorry, I'm not following you.

Hi Drew, I was trying to summarize Scott's POV about the BOP and the death of JFK. From his POV, not mine, JFK, a cold warrior, did not have the heart for the fight that was necessary, whereas Dulles did. JFK paid the ultimate price for his cowardice. He deserved what he got from the POV of Dulles et. al. Whether Scott is personally glad, I don't know. What this has to do with his father's death, I also don't know.

I am personally the student of Douglass and DiEugenio.

Does that help?

I thought you had it right, I suppose I miss understood you myself, the Cuban people in Cuba didn't have the heart to take a stand in Cuba and fight, taking sides is not what I do, nor do I try to play some kind of an entrapment game. (Rope a dope)? I thought you understood, you don't.

[Lauren Johnson]

What happened at the BOP is the prelude of the assassination, I have been saying this for years now, perhaps, I now understand why my father was poking his nose into it, and how he ended up with the photo's he stole from the CIA. I have no doubt what so ever that the CIA set the whole thing up from beginning to the final report of the WC.

Why do you think your father was poking his nose into it? A lot of people, including myself if I were a spook, would know that I was not in the loop and therefore was not meant to know. Was it a matter of curiosity? Something different?

[Scott Kaiser]

What happened at the BOP is the prelude of the assassination, I have been saying this for years now, perhaps, I now understand why my father was poking his nose into it, and how he ended up with the photo's he stole from the CIA. I have no doubt what so ever that the CIA set the whole thing up from beginning to the final report of the WC.

Why do you think your father was poking his nose into it? A lot of people, including myself if I were a spook, would know that I was not in the loop and therefore was not meant to know. Was it a matter of curiosity? Something different?

Really? Why did Dorothy Kilgallen?

[Lauren Johnson]

I thought you had it right, I suppose I miss understood you myself, the Cuban people in Cuba didn't have the heart to take a stand in Cuba and fight, taking sides is not what I do, nor do I try to play some kind of an entrapment game. (Rope a dope)? I thought you understood, you didn't.

You are saying: Dulles and crew genuinely believed that the Cuban people would rise up and support the invasion. They therefore believed their plan would work. Therefore, they expected to win at the BOP and their plan was NOT a plan designed to lose. Right?

The reference to rope-a-dope is that you can be vague sometimes. (Rope-a-dope refers to Mohamed Ali's fight in Zaire against George Forman in 1974; he leaned way back on the ropes and avoided everything that Forman could do to him.)

Dorothy Killgallen? Forgive me but I thought your father was a spook -- you know, the sixth burglar at the Watergate? He was no Dorothy Killgallen. My question is just real simple; if I were him, I don't think I would have wanted to have those pictures. Do you wonder what drove him to take such risks? Just curiosity?

[Jim DiEugenio]

IMO, Dulles and Bissell did not think there would be any serious amount of defections during the operation

This was all essentially sales talk to get the WH to go along with the operation.

The reason I think this is the case is two fold.

First, could the CIA have really been that spectacularly wrong about this important point? Because there were no defections at all during the whole invasion.

Second, Castro had rolled up the last pockets of guerillas in the hills earlier in the year. Also, once he suspected the invasion was coming, he began to make arrests in the larger cities of anyone whose loyalty was suspect.

In the Kirkpatrick Report, it is clear the Agency knew about both developments.

[Scott Kaiser]

I thought you had it right, I suppose I miss understood you myself, the Cuban people in Cuba didn't have the heart to take a stand in Cuba and fight, taking sides is not what I do, nor do I try to play some kind of an entrapment game. (Rope a dope)? I thought you understood, you didn't.

You are saying: Dulles and crew genuinely believed that the Cuban people would rise up and support the invasion. They therefore believed their plan would work. Therefore, they expected to win at the BOP and their plan was NOT a plan designed to lose. Right?

The reference to rope-a-dope is that you can be vague sometimes. (Rope-a-dope refers to Mohamed Ali's fight in Zaire against George Forman in 1974; he leaned way back on the ropes and avoided everything that Forman could do to him.)

Dorothy Killgallen? Forgive me but I thought your father was a spook -- you know, the sixth burglar at the Watergate? He was no Dorothy Killgallen. My question is just real simple; if I were him, I don't think I would have wanted to have those pictures. Do you wonder what drove him to take such risks? Just curiosity?

I am quite familiar with Ali. I believe there are many here who don't know a thing about my father, so here we go again, people assume things, all you have to do is ask, my father was recruited by Frank Strugis in Watergate, Frank would nag my father about it almost everyday until my father finally gave in.

Yes, my father went on the first break in, but he never went back. Lots of folks think that my father was a spook or worked for the CIA. He didn't! My father and mother never trusted Frank, in-fact, my father didn't trust William Pawley.

The reason Nixon didn't get assassinated like Kennedy did is because of my father, all hell broke out when both assassination attempts failed the first being at the VVAW Convention in Miami Beach 1972.

My father wasn't one of the bad guy's he just didn't approve of communisum so close to the United States, and he wanted to assassinate Castro as he did Papa Doc to FREE those who lived in oppression, but when you become apart of a community of that kind of underground world you hear things you shouldn't hear, you know things you shouldn't know, and if you're not careful you can get yourself wrapped up into that world, that's what happen to my father.

My father loved JFK so did my mother, they both weeped when they heard the news about the assassination, and the first thing that my father said to my mother was "who ever killed our president should be killed as well".

It was something that has affected both my parents, I just recently learned all this five years ago, my mother had been hiding my father's information for over 35 years, she never told a soul after my father was killed about the material my father had, that's when I decided to write a book on my father and his life story.

[Drew Phipps]

I am personally the student of Douglass and DiEugenio.

Does that help?

It does, thanks for the clarification.

Jim, do you suppose that Dulles might have seen to it that Castro got word of the pending invasion AFTER JFK signed off on it? I know there was a public raid on a camp near NO. If the point of the operation were to embarass JFK, Dulles wouldn't have wanted to leave anything to chance.

[Scott Kaiser]

Sorry, I shouldn't have posted this information just yet.


Deleted.

[Scott Kaiser]

Deleted.

[Scott Kaiser]

Deleted.