21-12-2012, 09:38 PM
Better yet...
:banghead:
Piper:What Scott strenuously wishes to avoid is the likelihoodthat either the Mossad
was Sierra's actual handler or that the Mossad co-optedlower-level operatives in a
covert Kennedy-sponsored assassination plot against Castroand utilized them for
the Mossad's own purpose, namely, the assassination of JohnF. Kennedy
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http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....entry37850
John Simkin, on Aug 23 2005, 06:57 AM, said:
Disclaimer: This is just a half-formed kinda fuzzy "maybe" based upon what I read. I reserve the right to change my mind when I get more "data."
The only way to get Cuba back from Castro was to do two things: remove him by any means, and somehow invade and get a "government in exile" to get a toehold in Cuba and hold it for at least 24 hours. Doesn't have to be a big force just well armed. But who should be the "government in exile?" Trying to understand Cuban exile politics can get very confusing. Who's Left who's Right who was a Castro supporter…If Cuba was freed, who would make up the government? Who would the exile community get behind? Artime? Carlos Prio? Mateo? Kohly? Forget anybody closely tied to Batista. How about Manolo Ray? Too far left. The US government may have gotten behind Artime. Hence the Second Naval Guerrilla. The problem with Artime is that if he became the new Presidente of Cuba, certain people's interests would not be represented. This includes organized crime and big business. They needed to put their own person in there that they could control. The problem is most of the well known leaders were too independent and had too much political baggage. So, the person selected had to be bright, Cuban, no excess political baggage but controllable. E[B]nter Paulino Sierra Martinez. [/B]To bring him on board, Burt Mold and John Lechner were sent to Chicago to make their pitch.
Sierra accepted the conditions and the JGCE was formed. The money had to be tightly controlled by a subsidiary Union Tank Car. The money controlled by someone high up the company chain William Browder. Who were Mold and Lechner representing? (Lechner's name and affiliation were found in Nagell's notebook) The FBI and CIA were certainly curious. One theory was that he was being backed by "gamblers from out West." (Jake Lansky) Another CIA/FBI theory was "oil men." Most of these theories came from Sierra himself. A clue may be William Trull. Trull was Sierra's temporary babysitter who disappeared after introducing Sierra around the Miami exile community. (Felipe Vidal among others) Trull was from Dallas, Texas and mentioned the King Ranch. Also, while Burt Mold may have had organized crime connections - he later worked in a Vegas Casino - I don't see John Lechner in that role. Lechner was an old time anti-communist. He was Executive Director of the Americanism Educational League, which was an arm of the California American Legion. He was also very active in the American Committee to Free Cuba. He and Mold formed their own organization called Americans for Cuban Freedom. The American Committee to Free Cuba is a very interesting org that has a very interesting membership. The ACFC had many right wing extremists California Rangers, Christian Defense League, etc. Some names of note: Robert A. Surrey, Gen. Walker's right hand man, Kent Courtney, Hon. John Rousselot, Steve Foote, Harry Von Zell, and Jose Norman. Norman gave Loran Hall the money to get Hemming's rifle out of hock. The check was from the ACFC. Hall knew many of these people and would give inspirational fund raising talks before many of these people. The HSCA was very interested in this group. (I'm getting too long winded here.) It was John Rousselot that gave Gerry Hemming, and because he tagged along, Loran Hall a lot of good contacts and sources of funds in Dallas. (Harry Dean mentions John Rousselot as one of the planners/money men behind the actual assassination plot.)
Hall dogged Hemming and eventually started meeting with most of Hemming's contacts behind his back. Hall made his pitch for what eventually evolved into the Bayo-Pawley raid. He claimed that it was his and John Martino's idea. Hall, Martino and Rip Robertson met in Robertson's room and formulated a plan. This was an assassination attempt on the Castro brothers (scheduled for July 26) disguised as a planned raid to capture Russians that would come back and tell the world that the missiles were still in Cuba. Some of the funds came from Hall's friend Santo Trafficante. The mission left without Hall. Eddie "Bayo" Perez was allegedly captured in Cuba but as late as Sept 1963, Perez's brother-in-law Luis Angel Castillo AKA ANTONIO ELORIAGA-REYES was trying to get into Cuba to get him out.. So Part One was a no go.
Later, Hall went back to visit Robert Morris, Dan Smoot, Lester Logue, H.L. Hunt, Nelson Hunt, Gen Walker and later hooked up with Wiley Yates, Wally Welsh and Nico Crespi. It was in Lester Logue's office that Hall met most of the moneymen. Hall mentioned that a "Jack" who owned a trucking firm (possibly J.E. Rose from Rose Truck Line) offered him $50,000 to shoot Castro's boss, the guy in Washington. Hall "declined" at the time. Hall continued his fund raising by flashing his letter from Manolo Ray around and writing letters back to Ray but never mailing them.
Back to Sierra. Sierra was throwing money around and starting to make some headway in meeting with all the various anti-Castro factions and came to the notice of people in Washington. (Possibly through his fellow Chicagoan, Morris Leibman?) Sierra and Reinaldo Pico (Later involved in Watergate) visit Artime's Latin American camps. Pico reporting to Bernard Barker at his time in August 1963. Aug 17, 1963 he goes to Washington to visit a member of the State Dept. John Crimmins(?). Not sure of the content of the meeting though. By September 1963 things start to fall apart for Sierra. People are complaining that he is spending too much money on himself. He is called back to Chicago and warned by William Browder. He is still left in charge of the Junta but his "coalition" failed to materialize. Part Two failed. All these weapons and people are in Guatemala and Nicaragua just waiting to invade. Hmm…. maybe if a communist killed JFK, the invasion would still go on. Around this same time, Homer Echevarria was heard to say that they'd get plenty of money after they took care of JFK. This was the Chicago plot. This was foiled so then it was on to Dallas.
Dave (Boylan)
Quote:Sierra? Albert and I(MS) never mention SIERRA even once in this thread.... you mean PAULINO SIERRA (such a nice jewish boy's name) was the MONEY for Homer and Mannie's anti-Castro group to help them invade Cuba and depose Castro??
And who is this Mosley character? Piper only mentions him ONCE in the entire book - he CAN'T be important to this accusation... can he?
:banghead:
Piper:What Scott strenuously wishes to avoid is the likelihoodthat either the Mossad
was Sierra's actual handler or that the Mossad co-optedlower-level operatives in a
covert Kennedy-sponsored assassination plot against Castroand utilized them for
the Mossad's own purpose, namely, the assassination of JohnF. Kennedy
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http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index....entry37850
John Simkin, on Aug 23 2005, 06:57 AM, said:
Quote:What do members make of Robert D. Morrow? I have just read his book, First Hand Knowledge. He explained in a speech at the State University of New York (28th June, 1991) what the motive for killing JFK:Here's my old outdated "theory" on the motive -
The assassination of President Kennedy was, to put it simply, an anti-Castro 'provocation', an act designed to be blamed on Castro to justify a punitive American invasion of the island. Such action would most clearly benefit the Mafia chieftains who had lost their gambling holdings in Havana because of Castro, and CIA agents who had lost their credibility with the Cuban exile freedom fighters from the ill-fated Bay of Pigs invasion.
I also believe that this was the primary motive behind the assassination.
Disclaimer: This is just a half-formed kinda fuzzy "maybe" based upon what I read. I reserve the right to change my mind when I get more "data."
The only way to get Cuba back from Castro was to do two things: remove him by any means, and somehow invade and get a "government in exile" to get a toehold in Cuba and hold it for at least 24 hours. Doesn't have to be a big force just well armed. But who should be the "government in exile?" Trying to understand Cuban exile politics can get very confusing. Who's Left who's Right who was a Castro supporter…If Cuba was freed, who would make up the government? Who would the exile community get behind? Artime? Carlos Prio? Mateo? Kohly? Forget anybody closely tied to Batista. How about Manolo Ray? Too far left. The US government may have gotten behind Artime. Hence the Second Naval Guerrilla. The problem with Artime is that if he became the new Presidente of Cuba, certain people's interests would not be represented. This includes organized crime and big business. They needed to put their own person in there that they could control. The problem is most of the well known leaders were too independent and had too much political baggage. So, the person selected had to be bright, Cuban, no excess political baggage but controllable. E[B]nter Paulino Sierra Martinez. [/B]To bring him on board, Burt Mold and John Lechner were sent to Chicago to make their pitch.
Sierra accepted the conditions and the JGCE was formed. The money had to be tightly controlled by a subsidiary Union Tank Car. The money controlled by someone high up the company chain William Browder. Who were Mold and Lechner representing? (Lechner's name and affiliation were found in Nagell's notebook) The FBI and CIA were certainly curious. One theory was that he was being backed by "gamblers from out West." (Jake Lansky) Another CIA/FBI theory was "oil men." Most of these theories came from Sierra himself. A clue may be William Trull. Trull was Sierra's temporary babysitter who disappeared after introducing Sierra around the Miami exile community. (Felipe Vidal among others) Trull was from Dallas, Texas and mentioned the King Ranch. Also, while Burt Mold may have had organized crime connections - he later worked in a Vegas Casino - I don't see John Lechner in that role. Lechner was an old time anti-communist. He was Executive Director of the Americanism Educational League, which was an arm of the California American Legion. He was also very active in the American Committee to Free Cuba. He and Mold formed their own organization called Americans for Cuban Freedom. The American Committee to Free Cuba is a very interesting org that has a very interesting membership. The ACFC had many right wing extremists California Rangers, Christian Defense League, etc. Some names of note: Robert A. Surrey, Gen. Walker's right hand man, Kent Courtney, Hon. John Rousselot, Steve Foote, Harry Von Zell, and Jose Norman. Norman gave Loran Hall the money to get Hemming's rifle out of hock. The check was from the ACFC. Hall knew many of these people and would give inspirational fund raising talks before many of these people. The HSCA was very interested in this group. (I'm getting too long winded here.) It was John Rousselot that gave Gerry Hemming, and because he tagged along, Loran Hall a lot of good contacts and sources of funds in Dallas. (Harry Dean mentions John Rousselot as one of the planners/money men behind the actual assassination plot.)
Hall dogged Hemming and eventually started meeting with most of Hemming's contacts behind his back. Hall made his pitch for what eventually evolved into the Bayo-Pawley raid. He claimed that it was his and John Martino's idea. Hall, Martino and Rip Robertson met in Robertson's room and formulated a plan. This was an assassination attempt on the Castro brothers (scheduled for July 26) disguised as a planned raid to capture Russians that would come back and tell the world that the missiles were still in Cuba. Some of the funds came from Hall's friend Santo Trafficante. The mission left without Hall. Eddie "Bayo" Perez was allegedly captured in Cuba but as late as Sept 1963, Perez's brother-in-law Luis Angel Castillo AKA ANTONIO ELORIAGA-REYES was trying to get into Cuba to get him out.. So Part One was a no go.
Later, Hall went back to visit Robert Morris, Dan Smoot, Lester Logue, H.L. Hunt, Nelson Hunt, Gen Walker and later hooked up with Wiley Yates, Wally Welsh and Nico Crespi. It was in Lester Logue's office that Hall met most of the moneymen. Hall mentioned that a "Jack" who owned a trucking firm (possibly J.E. Rose from Rose Truck Line) offered him $50,000 to shoot Castro's boss, the guy in Washington. Hall "declined" at the time. Hall continued his fund raising by flashing his letter from Manolo Ray around and writing letters back to Ray but never mailing them.
Back to Sierra. Sierra was throwing money around and starting to make some headway in meeting with all the various anti-Castro factions and came to the notice of people in Washington. (Possibly through his fellow Chicagoan, Morris Leibman?) Sierra and Reinaldo Pico (Later involved in Watergate) visit Artime's Latin American camps. Pico reporting to Bernard Barker at his time in August 1963. Aug 17, 1963 he goes to Washington to visit a member of the State Dept. John Crimmins(?). Not sure of the content of the meeting though. By September 1963 things start to fall apart for Sierra. People are complaining that he is spending too much money on himself. He is called back to Chicago and warned by William Browder. He is still left in charge of the Junta but his "coalition" failed to materialize. Part Two failed. All these weapons and people are in Guatemala and Nicaragua just waiting to invade. Hmm…. maybe if a communist killed JFK, the invasion would still go on. Around this same time, Homer Echevarria was heard to say that they'd get plenty of money after they took care of JFK. This was the Chicago plot. This was foiled so then it was on to Dallas.
Dave (Boylan)