30-12-2013, 07:59 PM
I wanted to focus on this question again as we ID those on the stairs...
Is there any reason to believe that shirt-tie man behind Lovelady is NOT Shelley? There were not too many who worked at the TSBD wearing a suit that day and saying they were on the steps...
He also does not move to that island and off with Arce until a bit later....
How many others in any other image/film available were wearing an open shirt with white T underneath in ALL of DP...
(I am going thru everything I have access to yet if anyone knows of any image of anyone dressed like that, a pointer would be greatly appreciated.
If there is no one dressed like that from either in or out of the TSBD that might help continue narrowing the list of potentials...
DJ
Ivan -
Take a look at all the other "t"'s in the notes... the small ones seem to have a loop above the crossed "t" part yet there are alos larger "T"'s.
The word "to" in the middle of a sentence appears a few times and looks more like a small "t" than capital....
Also appears that "... off(icer) came in" seems to complete a thought following the word "when". The same thing does not apply to the following "to"
which appears to also convey a complete thought - "to 1st floor had lunch" and then goes on tot he next thought... "out front ...."
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Is it possible that the man in the white shirt and tie is Shelley? Given where he says he was and with who he was... there are not too many other options for SHELLEY...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5600[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5601[/ATTACH]
Sean wrote: He (Pryaer-man) can't be Shelley--who was (again, per his own and Lovelady's testimony) with Lovelady out on the 'island' at this time--and who has been pretty securely identified in 11/22 images as having worn a dark suit and tie that day.
Of course Shelley does not corroborate the "Oswald out front with him" story... yet he also does not move to the island until after the shots
Mr. SHELLEY - In my office next to Mr. Truly's and 1 ate part of it which I do usually and finish up later on in the day but I went outside then to the front,
Mr. BALL - Why did you go to the front?
Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, several people were out there waiting to watch the motorcade and I went out to join them.
Mr. BALL - And who was out there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, there was Lloyd Viles of McGraw-Hill, Sarah Stanton, she's with Texas School Book, and Wesley Frazier and Billy Lovelady joined us shortly afterwards.
Mr. BALL - You were standing where?
Mr. SHELLEY - Just outside the glass doors there.
Mr. BALL - That would be on the top landing of the entrance?
Mr. SHELLEY - yes.
Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Trying not to be uber paranoid... Mr. Ball here cuts Lovelady off as he is telling us who was with him... "and right behind me -////cut" and we never get back to who he was going to name... he had already mentioned SHELLEY (who I happen to think is the man in the tie).
Mr. BALL - Who was with you?
Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me
Mr. BALL - What was that last name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton.
Mr. BALL - What is the first name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley.
Mr. BALL - And Stanton's first name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Miss Sarah Stanton.
Is there any reason to believe that shirt-tie man behind Lovelady is NOT Shelley? There were not too many who worked at the TSBD wearing a suit that day and saying they were on the steps...
He also does not move to that island and off with Arce until a bit later....
How many others in any other image/film available were wearing an open shirt with white T underneath in ALL of DP...
(I am going thru everything I have access to yet if anyone knows of any image of anyone dressed like that, a pointer would be greatly appreciated.
If there is no one dressed like that from either in or out of the TSBD that might help continue narrowing the list of potentials...
DJ
David Josephs Wrote:[quote=Ivan De Mey]David, you are right. CE 150 is the shirt Oswald wore when he was arrested... my mistake. I should have posted a picture of CE 151 instead, which Murphy argues was the "reddish" shirt Oswald left at his room at North Beckley Avenue.
Maybe the Fritz-note should be interpreted in the way you describe, but wouldn't Fritz have used a capital T for the "to" then? Like he did on this page of the note:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...elPageId=7 (second line "Time of filming")
But I admit this is a bit of a weak point in Murphy's reasoning. Because if it's an ongoing sentence then Fritz could have written the "to" right behind the "in".
I don't know of any pictures of Shelley at the TSBD, but Gerda Dunckel claims she identified Shelley and Lovelady in the Couch-film, as both are leaving the TSBD:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5599[/ATTACH]
Ivan -
Take a look at all the other "t"'s in the notes... the small ones seem to have a loop above the crossed "t" part yet there are alos larger "T"'s.
The word "to" in the middle of a sentence appears a few times and looks more like a small "t" than capital....
Also appears that "... off(icer) came in" seems to complete a thought following the word "when". The same thing does not apply to the following "to"
which appears to also convey a complete thought - "to 1st floor had lunch" and then goes on tot he next thought... "out front ...."
----
Is it possible that the man in the white shirt and tie is Shelley? Given where he says he was and with who he was... there are not too many other options for SHELLEY...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]5600[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]5601[/ATTACH]
Sean wrote: He (Pryaer-man) can't be Shelley--who was (again, per his own and Lovelady's testimony) with Lovelady out on the 'island' at this time--and who has been pretty securely identified in 11/22 images as having worn a dark suit and tie that day.
Of course Shelley does not corroborate the "Oswald out front with him" story... yet he also does not move to the island until after the shots
Mr. SHELLEY - In my office next to Mr. Truly's and 1 ate part of it which I do usually and finish up later on in the day but I went outside then to the front,
Mr. BALL - Why did you go to the front?
Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, several people were out there waiting to watch the motorcade and I went out to join them.
Mr. BALL - And who was out there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, there was Lloyd Viles of McGraw-Hill, Sarah Stanton, she's with Texas School Book, and Wesley Frazier and Billy Lovelady joined us shortly afterwards.
Mr. BALL - You were standing where?
Mr. SHELLEY - Just outside the glass doors there.
Mr. BALL - That would be on the top landing of the entrance?
Mr. SHELLEY - yes.
Mr. BALL - Then what happened?
Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute.
Trying not to be uber paranoid... Mr. Ball here cuts Lovelady off as he is telling us who was with him... "and right behind me -////cut" and we never get back to who he was going to name... he had already mentioned SHELLEY (who I happen to think is the man in the tie).
Mr. BALL - Who was with you?
Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me
Mr. BALL - What was that last name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton.
Mr. BALL - What is the first name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley.
Mr. BALL - And Stanton's first name?
Mr. LOVELADY - Miss Sarah Stanton.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter