26-05-2014, 01:49 AM
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:IMO, you're two cents is not worth two cents.
The Bay of Pigs operation was designed to fail. Period. We have this from Dick Bissell, Lyman Kirkpatrick (more or less) and above all Allen Dulles. And we have it not secondhand, but in their own words.
You have read the Douglass book have you not? How about Destiny Betrayed? Its all in there at length. All one has to do it read the Kirkpatrick Report and the Taylor Report. And you will see that both investigations were puzzled at the feasibility of the operation. So was JFK. Which is why Dulles had to scare JFK into doing it by saying he had a disposal problem if he called it off. Dulles admitted this also, that Kennedy was never enthusiastic about the project. It was an orphan child he had to push on Kennedy. Further, the CIA was going to arrange an operation to launch it anyway if Kennedy did cancel out at the last minute. To me, and to Bobby Kennedy, this was treason.
As Lyman Kirkpatrick wrote, let us say the CIA had knocked out Castro's Air Force. So what? That would have left 1,500 exiles against a 35,000 man regular army. Supported by a militia of about 175,000 volunteers. In other words, the exiles were outnumbered by over 20-1. As anyone with familiarity with amphibious operations knows, this will not work. Dulles understood this. So he lied to Kennedy and told him that 1.) It would be a surprise operation 2.) Thousands of defectors would come to their side 3.) The exiles could go guerilla if they had to.
You should read Dulles answering these question under RFK's questioning during the Taylor hearings. He was caught by his own BS. This is all in new edition of Destiny Betrayed. You should read it sometime.
RFK was so outraged by Dulles' answers that he called in Robert Lovett, who wanted to fire Dulles under Eisenhower. He then read the Lovett-Bruce report. After this, RFK arranged a meeting with Lovett with JFK. Lovett told him he now had the perfect opportunity to fire Dulles since he was caught in his own deceptions. Because JFK had announced days in advance that there would be no direct American intervention in Cuba. As Dulles wrote in his notes, he though that once exposed to the "realities" of the operation--in other words a failure--he would cave. Kennedy did not.
So during the Taylor hearings, Dulles saw the handwriting on the wall. Namely that his secret agenda had been exposed. He knew the operation had no chance of achieving success without American forces. And he and Bissell made sure any memo saying that would not go to JFK's desk. So he decided to sneak attack JFK in advance of getting fired. He called in Howard Hunt and Hunt secretly penned an article for Charles Murphy at Fortune. It branded Kennedy a callow neophyte who listened to too many doves. It then said it was Kennedy's fault the Bay of Pigs failed. Thus began the myth of the cancelled D Day air strikes. Which Hunt and Phillips used to fire up the exiles against JFK. If you had read my book, you would realize that JFK never authorized any D Day air strikes. These were all contingent on achieving a beachhead and having an air strip on Cuba to launch these strikes from. The CIA knew this. Which is why they picked Playa Giron after Kennedy vetoed their first plan. The Cubans never got close to a beachhead since Castro knew they were coming and he had mortars, artillery, and tanks at the front within hours.
The difference between Kennedy and Nixon is this: Nixon told JFK he would have said they had a beachhead and sent in the Navy. That is he would have overthrown a Third World government with American forces and lied about it. If you know anything about Kennedy, you would understand why he did not.
As per your throwaway line about JFK offing Castro, please. Have we not had enough of this crap? The CIA was trying to kill Castro since 1959. And they continued to do so until 1965. In their own report, they admit they never had executive authorization to do so. Which is why they 1.) Kept these plot from JFK,and 2.) Lied to Kennedy about their continuation after he found out about it.
Read some good stuff on this case, in addition to talking to those Cubans. You can then cross check what they say. And maybe teach them something.
Jim, you seem like you're an intelligent man, although, I don't know you, I have, however, read some of your work, (and disagree). Can you please provide me with any document, not second hand hearsay that Dulles said himself that "We designed, I designed, or they designed the Bay of Pigs just to fail?" I'd love to read that.
Jim, I understand your want and need, or otherwise to cover up Kennedy's crap with one finger (that's an old Mexican saying), but, I'd rather tell you the truth no matter how much it hurts you or me.
In the beginning, and (I'm not quoting scripture), but simply pointing out the fact that Jack did want Castro dead. <Period>. In-fact, both brothers wanted Castro dead. <Period>
In-fact, Kennedy promised the Brigade 2506 flag would fly freely over Havana, have you not heard that one before?
I agree that Jack was one of the finest presidents that ever held office, mainly because at the time of adversity stirring him in the face, Jack was able to overcome.
He prevented WWIII, he pushed for the arms race, he wanted to have a man on the moon, he wanted to dismantle subrogation, by bringing us all together and he was able to obtain peace.
But, so did Khrushchev. Neither man wanted war, a complete annihilation of man kind, millions would die at the push of a button, I give Kennedy a great deal of respect for what he has done.
However, here's the truth. Both Kennedy's wanted Castro dead, it's no secret, the Kennedy's were just as human as you and I, they made mistakes, but, unlike you, I will not put them on a pedestal and believe they could do no wrong, that is your first downfall.
Your second is to believe everything you read without any proof. Hearsay, theories and wishful thinking is all fine and dandy, but the truth still remains the same. And, the truth shall set you free.
Speaking of the truth, I did NOT post this because of your opinions, but now that I think about it, you have been pushing the Bay of Pigs plan designed to fail crap for years. If you can find the first idiot that purposes a plan that he himself or anyone else knows "it's designed to fail" than that person should NOT be working in our government.
Mistakes get made all the time, and the results of those mistakes are answers that are very hard to explain, but to say that "I designed the Bay of Pigs only because I knew it would fail" is an outright lie.
Why is it a lie? Because you're dealing with human life, casualties on both sides, and a possible all out war against your enemy. Can you tell me who said, "For the first time, I feel ashamed of my country". Yes, he was an American.
Jim, I truly understand your love for JFK, as I do realized how many here have wished the assassination never happen, as I've said, in my opinion, Kennedy was the greatest president that has ever taken office, but I will not make stuff up that is not true.
As much as I hate the CIA, and hate is a very strong word, (because they killed my father), I've also learned that not everyone in the CIA is bad. Sure, you'll always have that one cook that spoils the broth, but not every cook is bad.
I don't mind having an intelligent one on one debate with you about this, but as soon as you start in with the name calling just as our president did with his opponent by calling him a circus elephant I draw the line. I am neither Democrat or Republican, Liberal, left or right winger. I believe in voting for the man who is best for the job, who believes in defending our Constitutional rights and freedom for all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXEkz6ksxdk