04-06-2014, 12:00 AM
Scott.. please do not tell me or others what it is I mean to say or what my concentrations are... I am more than capable to do so on my own.
If these are your opinions of what I am saying, state it that way... you clearly do not speak for everyone here. thanks.
---
It is sad that you cannot be open enough to follow some of the info I've offered and incorporate it into your understand. Connecting dots takes work... work you obviously do not appear to want to perform.
That you do not know how the cancellation of those strikes occurred gives me great pause as to what else you've misunderstood and presented as general fact and your opinion.
Read my posts or not. When you or anyone wants to title a thread "The TRUTH AND BARE FACTS... " about anything... you really ought to offer some substantiating historical evidence..
or present it as your humble opinion... as that's how your posts all read on the BOP topic.
Do you have any evidence that JFK and Bundy conferred about the decision or not? Or do you simply dismiss the actuall events as they took place as propaganda?
Why indeed Mr Kaiser... why indeed. (if you bothered to read the "Bay of Pigs revisited" essay quoting the report on the BOP Failure, you wouldn't need to ask that question... )
In fact Mr Kaiser... how about going back and doing your homework before coming here and challenging us to believe you over history... this amazing thing called the INTERNET is your friend.
It will lead you to the SOURCES of information.... When opinion does not jive with the SOURCES.. it is your responsibility to debunk the SOURCES as we have done to the SOURCES within the WCR, HSCA and beyond....
The SOURCES were the conspiracy...
If what you read below is a fabrication or distortion of history as you understand it... please prove why you feel that way.
If it is not, please stop asking such ill-informed questions, while sitting at a computer, when in less than 5 minutes, you can base your posts on FACTS and not opinion.
K?
:
:
As he recalled in his autobiography, As I Saw It, Rusk (JFK SEC of STATE) did not have a good relationship with President Kennedy. The president was often irritated by Rusk's reticence in advisory sessions and felt that the State Department was "like a bowl of jelly" and that it "never comes up with any new ideas".
Mr. Kaiser, sure does appear as if Dean Rusk and McGoerge Bundy were not exactly serving the needs of their President in making those decisions without his consult... Does it not dawn on you that this was part of the "alterior motive" you eluded to in an earlier post and commented on when I quoted you? Hmmmm Cabell's name pops up alot, doesn't it.... Didn't he have a brother?
At about 9:30 P.M. on 16 April, Mr. McGeorge Bundy, Special Assistant to the
President, telephoned General C.P. Cabell of CIA to inform him that the dawn air
strikes the following morning should not be launched until they could be
conducted from a strip within the beachhead. Mr. Bundy indicated that any
further consultation with regard to this matter should be with the Secretary of
State (Memo. 1, para. 43).
General Cabell, accompanied by Mr. Bissell, went at once to Secretary Rusk's
office, arriving there about 10:15 P.M. There they received a telephone call
from [deleted reference to one of the brigade commanders] who, having learned of
the cancellation of the D-Day strikes, called to present his view of the gravity
of the decision. General Cabell and Mr. Bissell then tried to persuade the
Secretary of State to permit the dawn D-Day strkes. The Secretary indicated that
there were policy consideratons against air strikes before the beachhead
airfield was in the hands of the landing force and completely operational,
capable of supporting the raids. The two CIA representatives pointed out the
risk of loss to the shipping if the Castro Air Force were not neutralized by the
dawn strkes. They also stressed the difficulty which the B-26 airplanes would
have in isolating the battlefield after the landing, as well as the heavier
scale of air attack to which the disembarked forces would be exposed. The
Secretary of State indicated subsequently that their presentation led him to
feel that while the air strikes were indeed important, they were not vital.
However, he offered them the privilege of telephoning the President in order to
present their views to him. They saw no point in speaking personally to the
President and so informed the Secretary of State. The order cancelling the D-Day
strkes was dispatched to the departure field in Nicaragua, arriving when the
pilots were in their cockpits ready for take-off. The Joint Chiefs of Staff
learned of the cancellation at varying hours the following morning (Memo. 1,
para. 44).
------
Raised in Boston, Massachusetts, Bundy came from a wealthy family long involved in Republican[SUP][1][/SUP] politics. His mother, Katherine Lawrence (Putnam), was the daughter of two Boston Brahmin families listed in the Social Register. His father, Harvey Hollister Bundy, was from Grand Rapids, Michigan and was a diplomat who helped implement the Marshall Plan.
Bundy attended the elite Dexter School in Brookline, Massachusetts and then the Groton School, where he placed first in his class and ran the student newspaper and debating society. He was then admitted to Yale University, one year behind his brother William. At Yale, where he majored in mathematics, he served as secretary of the Yale Political Union and then chairman of its Liberal Party. He was on the staff of the Yale Literary Magazine and also wrote a column for the Yale Daily News. Like his father, he was inducted into the Skull and Bones secret society, where he was nicknamed "Odin". He remained in contact with his fellow Bonesmen for decades afterward.[SUP][2][/SUP] He graduated Yale in the class of 1940. During World War II he served as a U.S. Army intelligence officer.
Boston
Wealth
Republican
Brahmin
Yale
Skull and Bones
Army Intelligence
Calls off airstrikes
Tells AF-1 that Oswald did it alone and there is no conspiracy
Believes that US involvement in Vietnam was necessary and justified
Ford Foundation
Carnegie Corp
Council on Foreign Relations
Henry Stimson
John J McCloy
Cravath, Swaine and Moore....
If these are your opinions of what I am saying, state it that way... you clearly do not speak for everyone here. thanks.
---
It is sad that you cannot be open enough to follow some of the info I've offered and incorporate it into your understand. Connecting dots takes work... work you obviously do not appear to want to perform.
That you do not know how the cancellation of those strikes occurred gives me great pause as to what else you've misunderstood and presented as general fact and your opinion.
Read my posts or not. When you or anyone wants to title a thread "The TRUTH AND BARE FACTS... " about anything... you really ought to offer some substantiating historical evidence..
or present it as your humble opinion... as that's how your posts all read on the BOP topic.
Do you have any evidence that JFK and Bundy conferred about the decision or not? Or do you simply dismiss the actuall events as they took place as propaganda?
Quote: why do you suppose the CIA obliged to Bundy's request in the first place when Bundy is nothing more than a Security Advisor to the president who has NO jurisdiction over the CIA?
Why indeed Mr Kaiser... why indeed. (if you bothered to read the "Bay of Pigs revisited" essay quoting the report on the BOP Failure, you wouldn't need to ask that question... )
In fact Mr Kaiser... how about going back and doing your homework before coming here and challenging us to believe you over history... this amazing thing called the INTERNET is your friend.
It will lead you to the SOURCES of information.... When opinion does not jive with the SOURCES.. it is your responsibility to debunk the SOURCES as we have done to the SOURCES within the WCR, HSCA and beyond....
The SOURCES were the conspiracy...
If what you read below is a fabrication or distortion of history as you understand it... please prove why you feel that way.
If it is not, please stop asking such ill-informed questions, while sitting at a computer, when in less than 5 minutes, you can base your posts on FACTS and not opinion.
K?
:
:As he recalled in his autobiography, As I Saw It, Rusk (JFK SEC of STATE) did not have a good relationship with President Kennedy. The president was often irritated by Rusk's reticence in advisory sessions and felt that the State Department was "like a bowl of jelly" and that it "never comes up with any new ideas".
Mr. Kaiser, sure does appear as if Dean Rusk and McGoerge Bundy were not exactly serving the needs of their President in making those decisions without his consult... Does it not dawn on you that this was part of the "alterior motive" you eluded to in an earlier post and commented on when I quoted you? Hmmmm Cabell's name pops up alot, doesn't it.... Didn't he have a brother?
At about 9:30 P.M. on 16 April, Mr. McGeorge Bundy, Special Assistant to the
President, telephoned General C.P. Cabell of CIA to inform him that the dawn air
strikes the following morning should not be launched until they could be
conducted from a strip within the beachhead. Mr. Bundy indicated that any
further consultation with regard to this matter should be with the Secretary of
State (Memo. 1, para. 43).
General Cabell, accompanied by Mr. Bissell, went at once to Secretary Rusk's
office, arriving there about 10:15 P.M. There they received a telephone call
from [deleted reference to one of the brigade commanders] who, having learned of
the cancellation of the D-Day strikes, called to present his view of the gravity
of the decision. General Cabell and Mr. Bissell then tried to persuade the
Secretary of State to permit the dawn D-Day strkes. The Secretary indicated that
there were policy consideratons against air strikes before the beachhead
airfield was in the hands of the landing force and completely operational,
capable of supporting the raids. The two CIA representatives pointed out the
risk of loss to the shipping if the Castro Air Force were not neutralized by the
dawn strkes. They also stressed the difficulty which the B-26 airplanes would
have in isolating the battlefield after the landing, as well as the heavier
scale of air attack to which the disembarked forces would be exposed. The
Secretary of State indicated subsequently that their presentation led him to
feel that while the air strikes were indeed important, they were not vital.
However, he offered them the privilege of telephoning the President in order to
present their views to him. They saw no point in speaking personally to the
President and so informed the Secretary of State. The order cancelling the D-Day
strkes was dispatched to the departure field in Nicaragua, arriving when the
pilots were in their cockpits ready for take-off. The Joint Chiefs of Staff
learned of the cancellation at varying hours the following morning (Memo. 1,
para. 44).
------
Raised in Boston, Massachusetts, Bundy came from a wealthy family long involved in Republican[SUP][1][/SUP] politics. His mother, Katherine Lawrence (Putnam), was the daughter of two Boston Brahmin families listed in the Social Register. His father, Harvey Hollister Bundy, was from Grand Rapids, Michigan and was a diplomat who helped implement the Marshall Plan.
Bundy attended the elite Dexter School in Brookline, Massachusetts and then the Groton School, where he placed first in his class and ran the student newspaper and debating society. He was then admitted to Yale University, one year behind his brother William. At Yale, where he majored in mathematics, he served as secretary of the Yale Political Union and then chairman of its Liberal Party. He was on the staff of the Yale Literary Magazine and also wrote a column for the Yale Daily News. Like his father, he was inducted into the Skull and Bones secret society, where he was nicknamed "Odin". He remained in contact with his fellow Bonesmen for decades afterward.[SUP][2][/SUP] He graduated Yale in the class of 1940. During World War II he served as a U.S. Army intelligence officer.
Boston
Wealth
Republican
Brahmin
Yale
Skull and Bones
Army Intelligence
Calls off airstrikes
Tells AF-1 that Oswald did it alone and there is no conspiracy
Believes that US involvement in Vietnam was necessary and justified
Ford Foundation
Carnegie Corp
Council on Foreign Relations
Henry Stimson
John J McCloy
Cravath, Swaine and Moore....
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter