10-06-2011, 08:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 27-06-2012, 01:10 PM by Seamus Coogan.)
Mark states the following: My replies are in bold.
Kennedy was killed because Israel considered his firm opposition to the Dimona project an existential threat. Ben-Gurion indicated this in his correspondence with Kennedy in 1963. Also, Kennedy insisted that military aid to Israel be tied to concessions in regard to the Palestinians. He bargained tough and wouldn't give any ground.
Your opinions. Not evidence in anyway. Kennedy opposed to the Dimona Project? The Dimona project was started well before he came to power and was aided by the French. If the Israeli's were going to be hacked off with anyone it would have been de Gaulle.
Where's the correspondance? On one hand people say it's still classified (what utter crap) and the official documents say well.......they say this.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/docu...index.html
Both Kennedy and Gurion were satisfied with results though there were one or two niggles. The Israeli's were pretty coy and may have been deceptive. But generally speaking Mark, JFK was satisfied with what he was getting back. He was actually more worried about CIA covert actions in Latin America and Africa
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/
So 'Pop' goes that weasel Mark.
His mistrust of Israel may have been fuelled by two incidents which occurred just before his inauguration, although this is only my opinion. They were the attempt by the Israel Lobby to purchase US Middle East policy lock, stock and barrel in return for funding prior to the 1960 election and the revelation in December 1960 that the Dimona project was more advanced than previously thought. Angleton, as head of the Israel desk at the CIA and a strong supporter of the Jewish state, is generally considered responsible for concealing this information from other US institutions.
'Is only my opinion' Thanks for that Mark. Wow Angleton was head of the Israeli desk. Like we've never heard that before? Again if they were so successful with their deception they didn't need too off JFK did they? Thats my opinion seeing as your so good at giving yours.
It's clear that Israeli wasn't going to get the nuclear deterrent had Kennedy remained President and I think they were pretty sure he would win in '64. When Johnson took over they not only got Dimona but a sevenfold increase in funding over the next three years, nearly all of it military, with no strings whatsoever.
In the above Link Mark it's very clear the Israeli's 'had' Dimona. You can't even get your facts straight.
Johnson also shamefully covered for them when the Liberty was attacked by Israel in 1967. Johnson had proven his loyalty to Israel prior to November 1963 and upon becoming President he promptly surrounded himself with advisors who were staunchly Zionist. There were many other indications of Johnson's loyalty to Israel (and a healthy dose of gratitude, imo) such as Eshkol's visit to the WH in June 1964, which was the first official visit by an Israeli Prime Minister to the White House.
So your now implying that no Israeli Prime Minister and US President had met before 1964? Well that's just not true.
BEN-GURION MET TRUMAN IN THE OVAL OFFICE IN 1951. This all looks pretty official to me.
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/656750...eive-gifts
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/photographs...=&listid=2
Now as ifthat's not embarrassing enough for you. I don't run around saying the 'Memphis Mafia' and the 'Colonel' had power over the President. But hey thats the logic cos Elvis visited there. So did Shirley Temple for chrissakes. Furthermore if Israelites were running all over the LBJ White House then it wouldn't be such a big deal to have one visit would it?
That's the bones of it, insofar as motive is concerned. I'm convinced that Israel was the only one of all the suspects who have been mentioned as possible sponsors who made a tangible gain from Kennedy's death. Indeed, a windfall gain. From nothing to everything.
Oh so guys like say Henry Luce, Allen Dulles and other proto facists didn't? Oh yes they were all in cahoots with Jews and Nazi's? Noooo. Pipers not silly! He's stark raving mad IMO. I mean that should be the real debate. Pipers insanity.
As for naming other names, like shooters or the leaders of the cells and higher ups in the conspiracy, I can't name any. I do know that Israel had many powerful staunch allies in the media and institutions like Paley, Sarnoff and JEH, to name just a few. I know that Yitzhak Shamir befrended Mickey Cohen, Lansky and other powerful Jewish underworld figures while he was on the run in the US in the early 1950's. I know Lansky was a staunch supporter of Israel and fell in love with the country after his first visit there in 1962.
Lansky fell in love with it so much he left after his honey moon to go back too the States. He really only loved the place when he was on the run, he petitioned to live there. The Israeli's loved him so much they kicked him out. Duh!!!
I know Lansky was tied to LBJ through mutual business associates like Ed Levinson. And I know Jack Ruby was a staunch supporter of Israel and helped ship arms to the country after WW2.
He was such a staunch supporter of Israel and his Jewishness, he changed his name to Jack Ruby. He may well have been sensitive to Jewish issues, so what? Ruby was running guns to anybody. People think he blew the lid on it when he said Lyndon Johnson did it didnt he? (clearly showing he'd been fed bollocks in IMO) Or was he to scared of giving the game away about the real killers? Why am I wasting my time with this?
I also know that Israel has a covert assassination policy dating as far back as 1948 and possibly beyond, when they murdered Folke Bernadotte (and his wife) in a motorcade in Jerusalem in 1948. He had been unanimously elected as the first ever UN mediator and was in Israel to mediate on their dispute with the Palestinians. I also know, and so do you, that Israel routinely murders humanitarian and aid workers with impunity because the US has protected them in the UN for many years.
Nothing to do with anything. It's idol speculation and utterly useless in terms of any evidentary value.
In conclusion, I believe it highly plausible that Israel had the necessary reach and influence, through a complex network of powerful sayanim, to orchestrate Dealey Plaza and, with a loyal friend in the White House, to have carried out an effective coverup. Now that I have done my best to answer your question will you do me the same courtesy and answer my (earlier) question? Why is Piper's book so silly?[/QUOTE]
Why is Pipers book so silly. You tell me your the expert Mark!
Jim wanted evidence. Real evidence. This is just bombast and hyperbole of the worst kind.
Kennedy was killed because Israel considered his firm opposition to the Dimona project an existential threat. Ben-Gurion indicated this in his correspondence with Kennedy in 1963. Also, Kennedy insisted that military aid to Israel be tied to concessions in regard to the Palestinians. He bargained tough and wouldn't give any ground.
Your opinions. Not evidence in anyway. Kennedy opposed to the Dimona Project? The Dimona project was started well before he came to power and was aided by the French. If the Israeli's were going to be hacked off with anyone it would have been de Gaulle.
Where's the correspondance? On one hand people say it's still classified (what utter crap) and the official documents say well.......they say this.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/israel/docu...index.html
Both Kennedy and Gurion were satisfied with results though there were one or two niggles. The Israeli's were pretty coy and may have been deceptive. But generally speaking Mark, JFK was satisfied with what he was getting back. He was actually more worried about CIA covert actions in Latin America and Africa
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/israel/nuke/
So 'Pop' goes that weasel Mark.
His mistrust of Israel may have been fuelled by two incidents which occurred just before his inauguration, although this is only my opinion. They were the attempt by the Israel Lobby to purchase US Middle East policy lock, stock and barrel in return for funding prior to the 1960 election and the revelation in December 1960 that the Dimona project was more advanced than previously thought. Angleton, as head of the Israel desk at the CIA and a strong supporter of the Jewish state, is generally considered responsible for concealing this information from other US institutions.
'Is only my opinion' Thanks for that Mark. Wow Angleton was head of the Israeli desk. Like we've never heard that before? Again if they were so successful with their deception they didn't need too off JFK did they? Thats my opinion seeing as your so good at giving yours.
It's clear that Israeli wasn't going to get the nuclear deterrent had Kennedy remained President and I think they were pretty sure he would win in '64. When Johnson took over they not only got Dimona but a sevenfold increase in funding over the next three years, nearly all of it military, with no strings whatsoever.
In the above Link Mark it's very clear the Israeli's 'had' Dimona. You can't even get your facts straight.
Johnson also shamefully covered for them when the Liberty was attacked by Israel in 1967. Johnson had proven his loyalty to Israel prior to November 1963 and upon becoming President he promptly surrounded himself with advisors who were staunchly Zionist. There were many other indications of Johnson's loyalty to Israel (and a healthy dose of gratitude, imo) such as Eshkol's visit to the WH in June 1964, which was the first official visit by an Israeli Prime Minister to the White House.
So your now implying that no Israeli Prime Minister and US President had met before 1964? Well that's just not true.
BEN-GURION MET TRUMAN IN THE OVAL OFFICE IN 1951. This all looks pretty official to me.
http://www.criticalpast.com/video/656750...eive-gifts
http://www.trumanlibrary.org/photographs...=&listid=2
Now as ifthat's not embarrassing enough for you. I don't run around saying the 'Memphis Mafia' and the 'Colonel' had power over the President. But hey thats the logic cos Elvis visited there. So did Shirley Temple for chrissakes. Furthermore if Israelites were running all over the LBJ White House then it wouldn't be such a big deal to have one visit would it?
That's the bones of it, insofar as motive is concerned. I'm convinced that Israel was the only one of all the suspects who have been mentioned as possible sponsors who made a tangible gain from Kennedy's death. Indeed, a windfall gain. From nothing to everything.
Oh so guys like say Henry Luce, Allen Dulles and other proto facists didn't? Oh yes they were all in cahoots with Jews and Nazi's? Noooo. Pipers not silly! He's stark raving mad IMO. I mean that should be the real debate. Pipers insanity.
As for naming other names, like shooters or the leaders of the cells and higher ups in the conspiracy, I can't name any. I do know that Israel had many powerful staunch allies in the media and institutions like Paley, Sarnoff and JEH, to name just a few. I know that Yitzhak Shamir befrended Mickey Cohen, Lansky and other powerful Jewish underworld figures while he was on the run in the US in the early 1950's. I know Lansky was a staunch supporter of Israel and fell in love with the country after his first visit there in 1962.
Lansky fell in love with it so much he left after his honey moon to go back too the States. He really only loved the place when he was on the run, he petitioned to live there. The Israeli's loved him so much they kicked him out. Duh!!!
I know Lansky was tied to LBJ through mutual business associates like Ed Levinson. And I know Jack Ruby was a staunch supporter of Israel and helped ship arms to the country after WW2.
He was such a staunch supporter of Israel and his Jewishness, he changed his name to Jack Ruby. He may well have been sensitive to Jewish issues, so what? Ruby was running guns to anybody. People think he blew the lid on it when he said Lyndon Johnson did it didnt he? (clearly showing he'd been fed bollocks in IMO) Or was he to scared of giving the game away about the real killers? Why am I wasting my time with this?
I also know that Israel has a covert assassination policy dating as far back as 1948 and possibly beyond, when they murdered Folke Bernadotte (and his wife) in a motorcade in Jerusalem in 1948. He had been unanimously elected as the first ever UN mediator and was in Israel to mediate on their dispute with the Palestinians. I also know, and so do you, that Israel routinely murders humanitarian and aid workers with impunity because the US has protected them in the UN for many years.
Nothing to do with anything. It's idol speculation and utterly useless in terms of any evidentary value.
In conclusion, I believe it highly plausible that Israel had the necessary reach and influence, through a complex network of powerful sayanim, to orchestrate Dealey Plaza and, with a loyal friend in the White House, to have carried out an effective coverup. Now that I have done my best to answer your question will you do me the same courtesy and answer my (earlier) question? Why is Piper's book so silly?[/QUOTE]
Why is Pipers book so silly. You tell me your the expert Mark!
Jim wanted evidence. Real evidence. This is just bombast and hyperbole of the worst kind.
"In the Kennedy assassination we must be careful of running off into the ether of our own imaginations." Carl Ogelsby circa 1992