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Are there statements from Kodak employees who saw the Zfilm friday?
#31
You have seized upon my description of the mechanical process of the film running through the gate - which is how it was always explained during my schooling and serves as a good conceptual framework for the layman's understanding, even if slightly inaccurate - but it is not exactly relevant to the information which I am really trying to share.

With a spring-wound camera, the film does not run through the gate at a constant rate of speed. I can further say that at at a frame rate as low as 18fps, it is possible for the camera to produce artifacts such as the Greer head snap. I have seen similar artifacts working with other films.

But my skepticism to Z-film alteration theories is not limited to that. It is mostly informed by a working knowledge of optical printing.

In the late 1980s, the film co-op to which I belonged purchased an Oxberry aerial optical printer. I was there the day it arrived, and watched it be re-assembled over several days. Assembled, it is the size of a car. It remains at the co-op to this day, one of the few remaining working optical printers anywhere. Film artists have travelled to Vancouver specifically to use this machine.


I personally spent many many hours operating this printer, although never beyond simple step printing operations. People I knew were more accomplished and could do much more complex work. One of my old film professor's was a highly regarded avant-garde filmmaker who featured composite imagery created on an optical printer in many of his films. A friend of a friend came to town in the early 1990s, and in my estimation was one of the top five or so skilled optical printer technicians anywhere on the planet. There was a screening of his work, and some of the imagery was spectacular.


But of all those people and all those films I cannot recall a single shot that would have posed a technical challenge on the level of accomplishing a travelling matte featuring the limousine and its occupants as part of altering the Zapruder film. Or even removing any content, such as a head blow out. Anything removed has to be replaced with something else and I don't see any evidence of this work (except perhaps a patch on the back of the head, which many have noticed: something obviously weird there but not anywhere else). So the alterationists are supposed to not only have accomplished an extremely challenging technical feat, they have done it seamlessly.

That is half of my problem. The other half is the fact that at the end of the day one has to produce a strip of Kodachrome 8mm film -with the altered contents - which can survive expert scrutiny to plausibly serve as a camera original. And that would be the first thing I would point out if I were the technician at Hawkeye Works and was presented with this job.

Back to my American Cinematographer manual, here is information from "Exposure Control Of Optical Printers" by Mehrdad Azarmi:

"Preparation of an internegative which closely resembles the characteristics of the original has always been the goal of optical houses throughout the industry. In spite of the superb quality frequently achieved in internegatives, it seems virtually impossible to attain characteristics identical to those of the original negative in the duplicate generations for the following reasons:

1. The non-linear response of photographic film limits the range over which the following generations can duplicate an original. The internegative is one or two generations away from the original, depending on the stock used.

2. Many variable elements are introduced during the processing of the internegative.

3. The exposure characteristics of the optical printer may vary from time to time.
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#32
Jeff Carter Wrote:What I am saying - and I understand my attempts at explanation have been inexact - is that the Z-film is best seen as a series of sequential still photographs rather than a "clock" of the events. This is also what Ralph Pearse of the NPIC was trying to explain to the SS agents. Any attempts to calculate speeds or make any kind of deduction from the film was bound to be incorrect.

I frankly do not understand the last two replies to this thread.

Let me be blunt, had the Zapruder film been shot by a professional cameraperson-cinematographer, with a camera mounted on a tripod with dual pan handles complete with rear zoom/focus controls, equipped with a pro wide angle zoom lens--framed perfectly: following the limo action down Elm Street that November day... then take that perfectly filmed 45 second sequence and with 1963 optical film technology, 1963 matte artists, 1963 glass artists, 1963 pro optical film printer-aerial film lab printer personnel a competent post production effects supervisor-- they coulddeliver in 14 days a finished product that looked exactly like the extent in-camera Zapruder film we see today. Complete with 'expected' film gamma properties, no-less.

Zavada played B&H camera, its operation to the max, good points and bad points, discussed non-sensical crap about the Ektachrome II and IIA double 8mm film till the cows came home. All irrelevant. Why? He didn't use Zapruder's camera in his studies, the 6th floor museum would not allow it. What we see passed today, as the in-camera original Zapruder film, well, that could of been shot with the B&H camera I have sitting in my old studio. Who would know? Further, Zavada was a KODAK 8mm film properties (manufacturing type) engineer, he has no, zero expertise as to the films optical content, nor any expertise in film post production, period.

And IF the Zapruder film WAS altered, and those that initiated same altering did not get rid of the in-camera original, they are complete idiots. And I doubt they are.

As to 8mm film gamma issues? If there is no original in-camera film, (if the question arises) what are you going to compare the new and IMPROVED Zapruder film too when judging its inherentfilm properties, ie., film gamma? The original has disappeared for one, which no one knows about... Best you can do is to solicit expert testimony, like a film properties guy like Zavada... and the best he can say regarding the new and improved Zapruder is 'it doesn't look like a first generation 8mm Kodachrome II 25 ASA film to me.' So what? Who cares, it is what it is.
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#33
Creating a travelling matte of the limousine would be an exceptional technical challenge. I can conceive of how it would be approached, but it would require at a minimum hundreds of hours of work.
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#34
Jeff Carter Wrote:Creating a travelling matte of the limousine would be an exceptional technical challenge. I can conceive of how it would be approached, but it would require at a minimum hundreds of hours of work.

bullshit. 10 seconds of film-- probably 150 frames, maximum and there's a natural cutline on Elm Street curb... right up Hollywood effects painters alley!

Your understanding and experience in film-video post production is what, Jeff?
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#35
My understanding and experience was/is in part explained above.

The curb is not a cut line. the outline of Jackie Kennedy's upper body and head would have to be part of the matte line and she is constantly moving. Any matte would have to be done on a frame by frame basis. Look at the green lawn. It is not uniform It would be impossible to match the lawn. Any matte would have to carefully and precisely conform to the outlines of the limousine, its occupants, and the motorcyclists as these figures pass across the lawn. And be so seamless that any evidence of this work is invisible.
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#36
Jeff Carter Wrote:...

"Preparation of an internegative which closely resembles the characteristics of the original has always been the goal of optical houses throughout the industry. In spite of the superb quality frequently achieved in internegatives, it seems virtually impossible to attain characteristics identical to those of the original negative in the duplicate generations for the following reasons:

1. The non-linear response of photographic film limits the range over which the following generations can duplicate an original. The internegative is one or two generations away from the original, depending on the stock used.

2. Many variable elements are introduced during the processing of the internegative.

3. The exposure characteristics of the optical printer may vary from time to time.

1. so what, you're creating a new Zapruder film original.

2. so what, you're creating a new Zapruder film original.

3. of course as they do, ALL the time, and so what, you're creating a new original. The only given is that the new in-camera original (sic) deliverable is on 8mm KodachromeII ASA25, and attendant dupes are on Kodachrome IIA...

and its a far cry operating a some historical kluge Oxberry optical printer in Canada today, to having an entire optical film printing house complete with technicians, artists and post-effects directors available for your projects.... especially those experienced operators whom have no need for instruction manuals...
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#37
Jeff Carter Wrote:My understanding and experience was/is in part explained above.

The curb is not a cut line. the outline of Jackie Kennedy's upper body and head would have to be part of the matte line and she is constantly moving. Any matte would have to be done on a frame by frame basis. Look at the green lawn. It is not uniform It would be impossible to match the lawn. Any matte would have to carefully and precisely conform to the outlines of the limousine, its occupants, and the motorcyclists as these figures pass across the lawn. And be so seamless that any evidence of this work is invisible.

you're beginning to understand out-of-camera Hollywood effects and just why optical film effects and printing was created for in the first place...

seemless as in frame-by-frame matte artists, absolutely!

Match the lawn? Match to what, if the original no longer exists?

So what, it is what it is on the new in-camera original. Lawn doesn't look good blame it on bad film stock, the cameraman... who the hell cares?
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#38
"so what, you're creating a new Zapruder film original."

8mm Kodachrome film has specific properties related to light, color and grain. The printer stocks used in optical printing have different characteristics. The challenge lies in returning the work to an 8mm print without the acquired characteristics from the printer film stocks revealing themselves. The article I cited is all about those challenges. I'm not sure those challenges can be overcome in this case. If they could, and were, then the trial and error involved would require a significant investment of time.

Optical printing is a solo process for the most part. There is not a team at work. It is a time-consuming process which requires a fair amount of trial and error: shooting tests, processing, reviewing, adjusting.
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#39
"Match the lawn? Match to what, if the original no longer exists? "

All of the elements within the frame have to come from somewhere.

I'm not trying to be a pain or needlessly confrontational. But if I don't point this information out now, someone else will at another time.

I have seen an article by yourself proposing a travelling matte of the limousine against the lawn background slightly enlarged, and you underplay the challenges in creating that rather significantly.
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#40
David J - in another thread you say, regarding myself:

""one must notice he has never addressed any of the many mistakes he posts as facts, or any of the supposed "fun-facts"... he just keeps plowing on as if he is making a point of offering any information on which to build..."

again, you have seized on a minor mistake (when Zapruder was in WFAA) and an slightly incorrect description of the mechanics of a film camera, both of which in context irrelevant issues, to dismiss me entirely as the proprietor of "many mistakes" who therefore lacks credibility. I can tell you, I am not here to be a provacateur but to share information which I believe is important. If you want to ignore me then fair enough. I am going to say what needs to be said and then, if ignored, I will go away. I have no desire or need to defend my credibility.


The issue with the Z-camera, which was stated flatly by Ralph Pearse at NPIC the night of the assassination, is extremely important. I can tell by your statements that you haven't fully grasped it yet. I very clumsily tried to clarify what he was saying, which only compounded your misunderstanding and I am sorry. But look at what Pearse is saying: the Z-film never ran through the gate at a steady pace ever - it was always in flux. So it 's not that it was alternating between fast and slow, it's that the pace cannot ever be known or measured.

By the way, any briefing boards which were created at NPIC on the weekend would have been presented working from a film speed of 16fps.
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