If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence: He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave.
-- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods
You can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity.
-- Graham Greene
Charles Drago Wrote:I'm no botanist, but the vegetation in this image does not strike me as being particularly tropical.
That plus the fact that neither an image nor a verifiable report of LHO at No Name Key has surfaced to date make the statement that this view should be accepted as having been taken "at No Name before anyting else" utterly under-informed and undisciplined -- which is to say, nonsensical.
Starting with "I'm no botanist" and then proceeding to offer a botanist's opinion is the "utterly under-informed and undiscipled" post here Charles.
I can and have been ignoring your caustic, harsh and generally unfriendly approach to anyone's opinions other than your own.... but then you attack me personally when you neither have the skills or desire to create the comparisons I posted and "speculate" along with the other posters... I'm not afraid of you, the playground bully, CD... that you believe you are superior to all is of no consequence to me... takes a BIG MAN to take pot shots at others while hiding behind: "BUT"
then there is your "Who the F$%k do you think your F$%#ing with" BS... which is a quite sad given how truly intelligent, informed and insightful you are about so many things.
I seem to remember when I first got here you were very happy someone with some photographic skills was here to contribute... and I hope whatever I've offered here has increased understanding and clarity on some issues...
Bottom line Charles... there really is no need for you to be a p#ick about discussing OPINIONS... especially if you are not an "expert" in that field.
Lamson uses the same approach... ATTACK THE POSTER rather than discuss the issue.
I would have thought you were past all that Charles. No one should feel reticent to post their thoughts for fear of YOU jumping up and down all over them... think about it.
I also posted a photo of the CIA JM/WAVE HQ in South FL... How "Tropical" does that appear to you?
I've also attached the entire frame...
Why not tell us who took the photo and why Charles... do I need to step you thru the two Oswalds in Japan as well? the DoD backtracking and the health records PROVING there were two of them? You HAVE seen that photo of Oswald in Japan... or at least we are TOLD it is Oswald...
You are aware of EVERY image and EVERY verifiable report out there CD...? I doubt it highly.
===========
To the discussion at hand
It is obvious this "person" looks incredibly similiar to our Oswald.
If is also obvious that this image of Oswald had not been circulated much... or it had never been attributed to Oswald.
Look at the hairline, the nose... if it ain't him... it sure is someone looking eerily similiar...
and that was the entire point here CD... if "LEE" was in No Name or working with the underbelly of the assassination... I doubt highly we'd see too many photos circulating.
I think this is a rare and very interesting find...
Your righteous indignation notwithstanding...
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
David, Prof. Titovits, who I've been in email contact with, and I think is an honest and trustworthy person, met someone named Oswald in Minsk and was his best friend there. He will be in Dallas this year....but even if you [or others] are not going, I can forward any photos to him, to ask him which seem similar [or more similar] to the Oswald he knew in the USSR. I too think there were two main 'Oswalds' in the years before Dallas [I'm not as sure the doppleganger plan went back all the way to childhood...but I don't rule it out]. A few others, who only bore a passing resemblance to 'Oswald' the patsy, were also increasingly at play in the weeks before the Dallas murder to further set him up. As told in The Man Who Knew Too Much, Nagell had a Soviet controller [as well as a CIA one...maybe one other]; so the Soviets knew or suspected Oswald or others were being prepared to be either assassins or patsies. Thus, they were doing their own investigation before [certainly were interested in the Amerian false defectors!] and have likely done EXTENSIVE investigation after...so I'm not surprised they can come up with footage we've not seen before.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Peter Lemkin Wrote:David, Prof. Titovits, who I've been in email contact with, and I think is an honest and trustworthy person, met someone named Oswald in Minsk and was his best friend there. He will be in Dallas this year....but even if you [or others] are not going, I can forward any photos to him, to ask him which seem similar [or more similar] to the Oswald he knew in the USSR. I too think there were two main 'Oswalds' in the years before Dallas [I'm not as sure the doppleganger plan went back all the way to childhood...but I don't rule it out]. A few others, who only bore a passing resemblance to 'Oswald' the patsy, were also increasingly at play in the weeks before the Dallas murder to further set him up. As told in The Man Who Knew Too Much, Nagell had a Soviet controller [as well as a CIA one...maybe one other]; so the Soviets knew or suspected Oswald or others were being prepared to be either assassins or patsies. Thus, they were doing their own investigation before [certainly were interested in the Amerian false defectors!] and have likely done EXTENSIVE investigation after...so I'm not surprised they can come up with footage we've not seen before.
Well put Peter - agree completely. The "2 Oswalds" were not, imo, leading to JFK but part of the cat-and-mouse games the CIA/KGB were playing with the world.
As anyone who has studied CIA "masterminds" - they used the assets and resources at their disposal... ALL of them and in more cases than not those involved had no idea of the end game.
Angleton and the rest of the gang of the time were ruthless, period, and treated "assets" as the disposable pawns they were.
The entire DEEP POLITICS of the period allows us to understand the conspiracy mindset and the "ends justify the means" processes.
We are looking at 100,000 jigsaw pieces spread out across the floor yet our mosaic requires only 10,000.
Which pieces belong, which are herrings, and whether ANY of the 100,000 pieces belong with real 10,000 is our quandry. I'd venture to say that we'll NEVER see more than 25% of the REAL puzzle peices
as most have been destroyed/replaced long ago or will never see the light of day.
Anyone believing that definitive statements can be made is fooling themselves....
As Jim D stated so eloquently, "Unless you were there, you really don't know"... in this case, even if you WERE there, you may not really know...
All we do know is the LNer position is indefensible... and more time and effort was spent STOPPING investigations than facilitating them
We spend time defining the puzzle peices... Salandria's minutia...
and think lofty thoughts about how we'll take on the CFR and all its tentacles.
The top of this pyramid supercedes change, IMO.
The American people, since World War II, or
World War I, or the Spanish American War -- take your choice -- have witnessed
the tip of many criminal icebergs. The official investigations of the criminal
icebergs almost always stopped at the waterline. The other 90 percent of the
criminal icebergs were never hauled onto the beach for complete examination,
prosecution and correction.
The criminal cases of 1980 to the present are
in perfect harmony with this honored tradition. This is, of course, why
Americans are the most profoundly ignorant people on planet earth. The illusion
of knowledge is far worse than knowing you don't know.
"The American system isthe most ingenious system of control in world history. With a country so rich in natural resources, talent, and labor power the system can afford to distribute just enough to just enough people to limit discontent to a troublesome minority. It is a country so powerful, so big, so pleasing to so many of its citizens that it can afford to give freedom of dissent to the small number who are not pleased. How wise to turn the fear and anger of the majority toward a class of criminals bred - by economic inequity - faster than they can be put away, deflecting attention from the huge thefts of national resources carried out within the law by men in executive offices."
Howard Zinn: A People's History of the United States
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
Charles Drago Wrote:I'm no botanist, but the vegetation in this image does not strike me as being particularly tropical.
That plus the fact that neither an image nor a verifiable report of LHO at No Name Key has surfaced to date make the statement that this view should be accepted as having been taken "at No Name before anyting else" utterly under-informed and undisciplined -- which is to say, nonsensical.
Starting with "I'm no botanist" and then proceeding to offer a botanist's opinion is the "utterly under-informed and undiscipled" post here Charles.
My Dear David,
Your attack here is unprovoked and reeks like a simmering stew that has gone bad and boiled over.
My "I'm no botanist" admission was intended to communicate self-awareness of the limitations of my analysis.
Your boldly confident statement that you would place the view of LHO "at No Name before anyting [sic] else... " was and remains unsupported by any evidence and wholly worthless -- and amounts to de facto disinformation.
We wait in vain for your own acknowledgment of your own limitations.
David Josephs Wrote:I can and have been ignoring your caustic, harsh and generally unfriendly approach to anyone's opinions other than your own.... but then you attack me personally when you neither have the skills or desire to create the comparisons I posted and "speculate" along with the other posters... I'm not afraid of you, the playground bully, CD... that you believe you are superior to all is of no consequence to me... takes a BIG MAN to take pot shots at others while hiding behind: "BUT"
The "Doyle"-esque quality of your prose and reasoning is, well, problematic. It does, however, manage to reveal a rather juvenile perspective on the world. Far from "hiding behind" my qualifier, I used it to underscore the inherent weakness of the botany-related aspect of my objection.
David Josephs Wrote:then there is your "Who the F$%k do you think your F$%#ing with" BS... which is a quite sad given how truly intelligent, informed and insightful you are about so many things.
Stop it, I'm fucking blushing.
David Josephs Wrote:Bottom line Charles... there really is no need for you to be a p#ick about discussing OPINIONS... especially if you are not an "expert" in that field.
I regularly and gratefully defer to expertise -- a quality nowhere to be found in your "before anyting [sic] else "analysis," which remains utterly under-informed and undisciplined -- which is to say, again, nonsensical.
David Josephs Wrote:No one should feel reticent to post their thoughts for fear of YOU jumping up and down all over them... think about it.
By definition, those who would be intimidated by my thoughts and/or the tones in which they are expressed really have little to offer the correspondents and readers of DPF.
YOU think about it!
David Josephs Wrote:I also posted a photo of the CIA JM/WAVE HQ in South FL... How "Tropical" does that appear to you?
My original speculation related to the flora of No Name Key, not mainland Florida. Your statement and question are irrelevant to the issue at hand -- and worthy of description as a "Doyle" moment.
David Josephs Wrote:Why not tell us who took the photo and why Charles...
I haven't the foggiest idea who took the original photo on this thread. Which is one of the reasons why, unlike you, I didn't declare with near-certainty where the photo was taken.
David Josephs Wrote:do I need to step you thru the two Oswalds in Japan as well? the DoD backtracking and the health records PROVING there were two of them? You HAVE seen that photo of Oswald in Japan... or at least we are TOLD it is Oswald...
I don't you need you to tell me ANYTHING about this case.
David Josephs Wrote:You are aware of EVERY image and EVERY verifiable report out there CD...? I doubt it highly.
Classic transference on your part, I'm afraid.
===========
David Josephs Wrote:To the discussion at hand
It is obvious this "person" looks incredibly similiar [sic] to our Oswald.
"Our" Oswald??? Oh dear ... if we break up, who gets him?
By the way, you needn't be Sigmund Freud to appreciate the deeper, revelatory implications of your misspelling -- "similiar" -- above.
David Josephs Wrote:and that was the entire point here CD... if "LEE" was in No Name or working with the underbelly of the assassination... I doubt highly we'd see too many photos circulating.
I think this is a rare and very interesting find...
Your righteous indignation notwithstanding...
The FUCK it was! You declared that the original image here most likely was of LHO at No Name Key. I became righteously indignant in the face of your wholly unjustified certitude. There was no "if" in your original statement.
You missed your calling. You should have been an impressionist; your "Albert Doyle" is spot-on.
Charles Drago
Co-Founder, Deep Politics Forum
If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence: He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave.
-- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods
You can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity.
-- Graham Greene
Obvioulsy more important you behave as the spelling nazi than view the ugliness in your mirror.
You, intimidate? Please.
Jumping up and down, waving your arms while cursing and accusing is pathetic at best... the refuge of a small mind with little to offer and even less to say.
Reality is, one never knows when the crazed, spitting, cursing lunatic will become dangerous to others.
That you would run and hide behind "Doyle-esque" accusations is humorous and sad.
I'll apologize ahead of time for my lack of ability in my prose... I get my point across and usually offer supporting evidence/references.
I gather now you'll go run off and spend hours analyzing my posts to see when and where I am me and when I'm not....
I believe you will find I misspell the same words repeatedly... and by accident... and that my posting style has been consistent for YEARS.
Shall we buy you a big red sharpie?
No worries there CD, I'll make sure to simply cross the street when I see you approaching, mumbling and cursing about how stupid everyone ELSE is....
If you can't handle a simple OPINION, a speculation about an image that fits into a larger picture, without pulling out adhoms... so be it.
I'll bet you sat and played in the sandbox, alone, quite often... and why we can virtually see eyes roll everytime we have to endure another of your tirades against the "under-informed"
I've come to expect this childish behavior at some of the other forums I've posted... trolls with nothing better to do than derail discussion
Quote:I don't you need you to tell me ANYTHING about this case.
that you would make a statement like that is once again... par for the coarse. (sic) lol.
.... you aint gonna learn what you don't want to know....
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
David Josephs Wrote:I gather now you'll go run off and spend hours analyzing my posts
I wouldn't spend more than another 30 seconds on you.
David Josephs Wrote:I've come to expect this childish behavior at some of the other forums I've posted... trolls with nothing better to do than derail discussion
Then get the hell out of here.
Charles Drago
Co-Founder, Deep Politics Forum
If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence: He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave.
-- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods
You can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity.
-- Graham Greene
David Josephs Wrote:I gather now you'll go run off and spend hours analyzing my posts
I wouldn't spend more than another 30 seconds on you.
David Josephs Wrote:I've come to expect this childish behavior at some of the other forums I've posted... trolls with nothing better to do than derail discussion
Then get the hell out of here.
and once again the schoolyard bully shows his stripes.... thanks for your input CD.
Can dish it, just can't defend it. Now stomp around and curse a bit... it's what we've come to expect
==========
So the answer to this thread's question is NO, you haven't seen this photo before....
You have no idea where it's from, who took it, or whether it is Oswald or not.
Where I captured the image and added facial comparisons for all to see and discuss... you whine about spelling.
do you have anything CONSTRUCTIVE to add... ??
Are you able to determine from the comparisons I posted whether it APPEARS to be Oswald...
or is that too much speculation for you...
Do you honestly feel that treating people this way creates an inviting environment for discussion... for theorizing....
:thumbsup:
wow... how depressing are YOU.
btw, ever see THIS photo from his days in Russia? KGB Colonel Vasili Khritinin
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
This is so simple that even a third-rate agitator like you can understand it.
Gordon Gray asked, "Any idea where this was taken? Could be in the Philippines or maybe on some place like No Name Key?"
You responded, "I have no idea Gordon... but your speculation makes sense... I would put it at No Name before anyting [sic] else..." [emphasis added by Drago]
I offered, "I'm no botanist, but the vegetation in this image does not strike me as being particularly tropical.
"That plus the fact that neither an image nor a verifiable report of LHO at No Name Key has surfaced to date make the statement that this view should be accepted as having been taken "at No Name before anyting [sic] else" utterly under-informed and undisciplined -- which is to say, nonsensical." [emphasis added by Drago]
I repeat yet again: Your "analysis" was and remains "utterly under-informed and undisciplined -- which is to say, nonsensical."
You now run from your earlier stated stupidity and attempt to deflect readers' attention away from it by changing the subject to an attack on me.
You do not own up to your initial mistake. Instead you viciously attack one of the co-owners of this forum.
How long do you think such behavior will be tolerated here?
I don't mean the attacks, but rather the disinformation?
So tell us, bubby ... Do you stand by your assertion that there is good reason (which you've yet to state) to conclude that the photo was taken at No Name Key "before anyting [sic] else"?
Because THAT is the question I originally raised, and THAT is the question you are dodging.
Answer the question. Share with us why the No Name Key identification should be accepted "before anyting [sic] else". Show us why you made that knee-jerk assertion.
Or go away.
Charles Drago
Co-Founder, Deep Politics Forum
If an individual, through either his own volition or events over which he had no control, found himself taking up residence in a country undefined by flags or physical borders, he could be assured of one immediate and abiding consequence: He was on his own, and solitude and loneliness would probably be his companions unto the grave.
-- James Lee Burke, Rain Gods
You can't blame the innocent, they are always guiltless. All you can do is control them or eliminate them. Innocence is a kind of insanity.
-- Graham Greene
12-03-2013, 01:20 AM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2013, 02:46 AM by Gordon Gray.)
Sorry I said someplace like no name key. I shoulda said one of those Cuban exile training areas where Oswald was allegedly sighted, then maybe this pissing contest could have been avoided. I am merely wondering if this is the "Lee" of Lee and Harvey. Of all the pictures of LHO look alikes, this is one I could actually imagine mistaking for Oswald, if I only had a quick glance at him, like many witnesses did. BTW FWIW for budding botanists, here is a sample of the vegetation on No Name Key:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4429[/ATTACH]
