LR Trotter Wrote:David Josephs Wrote:Thanks LR....
"Never Believe Anything Until it is Officially Denied"
Mr Josephs, I tend to believe that once the shooting was realized, an additional/continuation pause occurred as well, maybe due to a surprise reaction, as well as an attempt to allow SSA Hill access to the limo rear bumper. But, I do believe initially the pause was a reaction to the DCM and possibly TUM as well. I am unable to believe that SSA "Chauffeur" Greer and SSA "Shotgun" Kellerman knowingly rode into the DP Killzone. Mrs Kennedy, Mrs Connally, Mr Kellerman, and Mr Greer were fortunate not being wounded by bullets entering the Lincoln convertible. A lot has been said and written about SS prior knowledge of the JFK assassination, but I just can't believe SSAs Hill, Kellerman, and Greer had prior knowledge of a planned murder of JFK or JBC. Certainly not at 12:30pm CST on 11/22/63.
I can certainly appreciate that POV... but I have to disagree.
I would ask that you look carefully at Kellerman's behavior from his taking JFK from Parkland to bolting from the ambulance at Bethesda, to meeting Greer, Sibert, O'Neill at the morgue's entrance at 7:15, and to accepting the MDW's 8pm delivery time....
Mr. SPECTER - What time did the autopsy start approximately?
Commander HUMES -
The president's body was received at 25 minutes before 8, and the autopsy began at approximately 8 p.m. on that evening. You must include the fact that certain X-rays and other examinations were made before the actual beginning of the routine type autopsy examination.
Mr. SPECTER - Precisely what X-rays or photographs were taken before the dissection started?
Commander HUMES - Some of these X-rays were taken before and some during the examination which, also maintains for the photographs, which were made as the need became apparent to make such.
However,
before the postmortem examination was begun, anterior, posterior and lateral X-rays of the head, and of the torso were made, and identification type photographs, I recall having been made of the full face of the late President. A photograph showing the massive head wound with the large defect that was associated with it.
To my recollection all of these were made before the proceedings began.
Which makes sense sine Humes calls Finck around 7:45-8pm who then arrives at 8:30.
But the body was not delivered until 8pm ???
Mr. KELLERMAN. Let's come back to the period of our arrival at Andrews Air Force
Base, which was 5:58 p.m. at night. By the time it took us to take the body from
the plane into the ambulance, and a couple of carloads of staff people who
followed us, we may have spent 15 minutes there. And in driving from Andrews to
the U.S. Naval Hospital, I would judge, a good 45 minutes.
So there is 7
o'clock. We went immediately over, without too much delay on the outside of the
hospital, into the morgue. The Navy people had their staff in readiness right
then. There wasn't anybody to call. They were all there.
So at the latest, 7:30,
they began to work on the autopsy. And, as I said, we left the hospital at 3:56
in the morning. Let's give the undertaker people 2 hours. So they were through
at 2 o'clock in the morning. I would judge offhand that they worked on the
autopsy angle 4 1/2, 5 hours.
HSCA:
Mr. CORNWELL. Approximately what time of the day or night did the autopsy begin?
Dr. HUMES. well,
the President's body, as I recall, arrived about 7:30 or 7:35 the evening and after some preliminary examinations, about 8 or 8:15
FBI Agent O'Neill told the ARRB that, upon his (and Agent Sibert's) arrival at the front entrance of the hospital (at approximately 6:55 PM [17]), he observed Mrs. Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy and probably Dr. Burkley exit the gray navy ambulance, which contained the ornamental bronze casket, and enter the hospital along with Secret Service Agent Roy Kellerman. After s
ome time, during which the navy ambulance had not moved, he and Sibert approached Larry O'Brien (president's assistant) and asked about the delay. O'Brien said that SSA William Greer, who had driven the ambulance from Andrews AFB to Bethesda, was not sure how to find the morgue. Since O'Neill and Sibert were familiar with the Bethesda Hospital grounds, they drove to the morgue entrance at the rear of the hospital, with SSA Greer following.
Upon arriving at the loading dock outside the morgue,
O'Neill noted SSA Kellerman coming out of a door to a corridor leading into the autopsy room, at which point he (O'Neill) introduced himself to Kellerman. Clearly, Kellerman had found his way from the front entrance of the hospital to the morgue complex.
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Your point about these two men is well taken - they stand out like sore thumbs after the shooting.... and that we know the names of most everyone on Elm, except those two... is very suspect.
For whatever reason Greer slowed to a crawl down Elm and stopped at a most vulnerable spot... Hill does not make it to that limo without that help... the 8mph "official" slowdown speed is not supported by the evidence and the visual facts that have Hill taking literally two steps and getting from the SS car to the limo..
Finally regarding Kellerman....
We agree that based on the films Hill does not reach the limo until AFTER 313, the headshot... in fact he does not even touch the limo until z337.
and the limo does not BEGIN to accelerate until after Hill has touched the limo.
Does this testimony not suggest that there was a SECOND shot... Hill catches the limo... and then there is a THIRD shot
If there was a shot PRIOR to Hill (313 or so) when does the THIRD KELLERMAN SHOT occur?
15 feet from Altgens at 4+95 maybe?
Sounds to me like a bit of Survivor's Guilt (thanks Vince)
DJ
Mr. KELLERMAN. I am going to say that I have, from the firecracker report and
the two other shots that I know, those were three shots. But, Mr. Specter, if
President Kennedy had from all reports four wounds, Governor Connally three,
there have got to be more than three shots, gentlemen.
Senator COOPER. What is that answer? What did he say?
Mr. SPECTER. Will you repeat that, Mr. Kellerman?
Mr. KELLERMAN. President Kennedy had four wounds, two in the head
and shoulder and the neck. Governor Connally, from our reports, had three. There
have got to be more than three shots.
Mr. SPECTER. Now, to the best of your ability to recollect, exactly when did your automobile first accelerate?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Our car accelerated immediately on the time-at the time--this flurry of shots came into it.
Mr. SPECTER. Would you say the acceleration--
Mr. KELLERMAN. Between the second and third shot.
Senator COOPER. Might I ask a question there?
Mr. SPECTER. Yes.
Senator COOPER. A few minutes ago you said in response to a question that when you spoke to the driver the car leaped forward from an acceleration immediately.
Did that acceleration occur before the second shot was fired?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir. Just about the time that it came in.
Senator COOPER. About the time it came in?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Yes, sir.
Senator COOPER. Not before?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No.
