Some Misunderstandings Related to WTC Collapse Analysis

[Jan Klimkowski]

At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.

And I will assert that "power and control" are the currency of the right.

What does this mean?

What is "the right"?

In what sense is Power and Control the "currency" of whatever the right is?

[Jeffrey Orling]

[
The horizontal propagation was extraordinarily rapid across the 98th floor (about 0.7 seconds), where no core columns had been affected by the aircraft and no more than two perimeter columns, as only the very end of the wing hit that floor. Doesn't that give you pause in your arbitrary assignment of severe column load capacity degradation?

Tony,

I can't say how fast the horizontal propagation of across 98 was. I didn't measure it and wouldn't know how!

Others have extracted data from the vids and coupled with the structural have reached different conclusions than you have... and have refuted the very data and findings you assert as fact.

My understanding is informed by my own informal viewing of the collapse (not data) and the data which others have gathered and "explained" which is consistent with my reading.

You conception may be possible, but I see no evidence for it and some which seems to refute it.

People can study this and decide what's going on.

Many who question the US gov take a default position that the gov lied and did a CD. I don't think that most who hold this position have carefully studied the matter or even have the technical background to understand it or to know what they are seeing. They simply parrot what they read or believe to be true. As I don't see the official story as true... I certainly don't see the need for a false dichotomy. Some things are black and white... others are shades of gray.

[Jeffrey Orling]

At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.

And I will assert that "power and control" are the currency of the right.

What does this mean?

What is "the right"?

In what sense is Power and Control the "currency" of whatever the right is?

I find this is getting absurd... I pretty much use the term according to this definition:

"In left-right politics, right-wing describes an outlook or specific position that accepts or supports social hierarchy or social inequality.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] Social hierarchy and social inequality is viewed by those affiliated with the Right as either inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[SUP][2][/SUP] whether it arises through traditional social differences[SUP][5][/SUP] or from competition in market economies.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP] It typically accepts or justifies this position on the basis of natural law or tradition.[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][SUP][9][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP] The term "right wing" has been used to refer to different political positions through history. The political terms Right and Left were coined during the French Revolution (178999), and referred to where politicians sat in the French parliament; those who sat to the right of the chair of the parliamentary president were broadly supportive of the institutions of the monarchist Ancien Régime.[SUP][12][/SUP][SUP][13][/SUP][SUP][14][/SUP][SUP][15][/SUP] The original Right in France was formed as a reaction against the Left, and comprised those politicians supporting hierarchy, tradition, and clericalism.[SUP][16][/SUP] The use of the expression la droite (the right) became prominent in France after the restoration of the monarchy in 1815, when le droit was applied to describe the Ultra-royalists.[SUP][17][/SUP] In English-speaking countries it was not until the 20th century that people applied the terms "right" and "left" to their own politics.[SUP][18][/SUP]
From the 1830s to the 1880s, there was a shift in the Western world of social class structure and the economy, moving away from nobility and aristocracy, and moving towards the bourgeoisie and capitalism.[SUP][19][/SUP] This general economic shift towards capitalism affected centre right movements such as the British Conservative Party that responded by becoming supportive of capitalism.[SUP][20][/SUP]
Although the term 'right-wing' originally designated traditional conservatives and reactionaries, it has also been used to describe neo-conservatives, nationalists, racists, Christian democrats, and classical liberals.[SUP][15]"[/SUP]

Of course you could have an authoritarian leftist structure as well... control and power and economic model need not be capitalist.. though this seems to be a more common fit.

Strategia Della Tensione means the strategy of tension

strategy is:

Strategy (Greek "στρατηγία"stratēgia, "art of troop leader; office of general, command, generalship"[SUP][1][/SUP]) is a high level plan to achieve one or more goals under conditions of uncertainty.
Strategy is important because the resources available to achieve these goals are usually limited.
Strategy is also about attaining and maintaining a position of advantage over adversaries through the successive exploitation of known or emergent possibilities rather than committing to any specific fixed plan designed at the outset.

So... what group is employing this strategy? What is their ultimate objective that the strategy (of tension) is in service to?

I am assuming that the term also refers to a climate of fear...

I would imagine it is to simply maintain power and control and the privileges and wealth that accrues to those who have it.

N'est pas?

[Jeffrey Orling]

And then there't this:

Operation Gladio (Italian: Operazione Gladio) is the codename for a clandestine NATO "stay-behind" operation in Europe during the Cold War. Its purpose was to continue anti-communist actions in the event of a Soviet invasion and conquest. Although Gladio specifically refers to the Italian branch of the NATO stay-behind organizations, "Operation Gladio" is used as an informal name for all stay-behind organizations.. The name Gladio is the Italian form of gladius, a type of Roman shortsword.[SUP][1][/SUP]

Operating in many NATO and even some neutral countries,[SUP][2][/SUP] Gladio was part of a series of national operations first coordinated by the Clandestine Committee of the Western Union (CCWU), founded in 1948. After the creation of NATO in 1949, the CCWU was integrated into the Clandestine Planning Committee (CPC), founded in 1951 and overseen by SHAPE (Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers, Europe), transferred to Belgium after France's official withdrawal from NATO's Military Committee in 1966 which was not followed by the dissolution of the French stay-behind paramilitary movements.
The role of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in sponsoring Gladio and the extent of its activities during the Cold War era, and its relationship to right-wing terrorist attacks perpetrated in Italy during the "Years of Lead" (late 1960s to early 1980s) and other similar clandestine operations, is the subject of ongoing debate and investigation but has never been proven. Switzerland and Belgium have had parliamentary inquiries into the matter.[SUP][3][/SUP]

[Magda Hassan]

But there never was going to be a Soviet invasion and they knew it. In some places like Italy and France and others there was huge popular support for the communist and socialist parties but that was never going to be permitted to become a reality.

[Albert Doyle]

Tony wrote that the core suffered no damage in the North Tower. I think he edited it since then. If you look at the videos, Flight 11 created fiery outshoot out the opposite side of the impact zone. Since it struck close to the center of the tower you can assume the mass that shot out through the opposite side traveled through a substantial portion of the inner core and caused serious damage to a good percentage of the supporting columns whose load was redistributed to the outer frame. It was Tony himself who said the core was designed to support 4 times overload. The percentage of remaining columns were doing exactly that up until they became too weak and suffered failure creep.

[Jeffrey Orling]

Magda,

Yes they knew it but communism was still the enemy of the capitalists and it could arrive not with a violent revolution but via the ballot box. Obviously there was no consensus about entering a full out war with the USSR especially in the nuclear age of MADD. And so one strategy among many was to engage in proxy wars. These would drain the USSR of resources (the US too) but the belief was outspending them was all good... the MIC made out very well with this particular strategy.

The left was doing reasonably well in Italy and gaining, not losing support. The right and the anti communists had to counter this and there were limited options... winning and stealing elections or scaring the people away from the left and to the right. Gladio was this strategy.

In actual functioning democracies the right will usually be losing power and influence as it is a contradiction to the so called... will of the people. The right therefore is anti democratic as well as anti communist or even anti socialist.

In the US and perhaps other countries using religion was another strategy to get the people inline with authoritarianism. Enter the rise of the religious right which is also closely aligned with much of the brass in the DOD... which uses divine right as a sort of justification for their sadism as in kill a geek for god.

All efforts are directed at dismantling democratic institutions or corrupting them leaving them in place ineffective except to blunt the interests of the people and server the elite. The so called justice system has seen such a change in the US which use this system to lock away millions of blacks with the rest living in fear that this will be their fate as well. We've seen how few to none of the elite stand before the bar of justice and suffer any penalty for their criminality.

We live in a Hypocrisy not a democracy.

Hypocrisy is the state of pretending to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that one does not actually have.[SUP][1][/SUP] Hypocrisy involves the deception of others and is thus a kind of lie.[SUP][1][/SUP]


This is not very difficult to see if one bothers to try... despite all the chafe and BS in the media. But of course deception is Criminality's middle name.

[Jeffrey Orling]

Tony wrote that the core suffered no damage in the North Tower. I think he edited it since then. If you look at the videos, Flight 11 created fiery outshoot out the opposite side of the impact zone. Since it struck close to the center of the tower you can assume the mass that shot out through the opposite side traveled through a substantial portion of the inner core and caused serious damage to a good percentage of the supporting columns whose load was redistributed to the outer frame. It was Tony himself who said the core was designed to support 4 times overload. The percentage of remaining columns were doing exactly that up until they became too weak and suffered failure creep.

I believe Tony is wrong about the reserve capacity of the steel in the towers. The average reserve capacity in a steel building is less than 45% and it so because steel is very expensive. Because of the reliability of these structures engineers are advocating to REDUCE the reserve capacity.

The fact is that there were no reports about what was going on inside the cores and there were no transducers or thermocouples to record data. Tony's is making a series of assumptions and that's fine. He's also ignore some of the movement data... and that's not fine.

Attached is a concept of how the core damage MIGHT have propagated through the core of WTC1. The attached conception is no different than Tony's.

Have a blast!

[Tony Szamboti]

At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.

And I will assert that "power and control" are the currency of the right.

Or what one could say most people would call "the right", so your statement is accurate in that respect.

[Charles Drago]

At its most fundamental level, Gladio is not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

Gladio, and its successor operations, are about Power and Control.

And I will assert that "power and control" are the currency of the right.

Or what one could say most people would call "the right", so your statement is accurate in that respect.

The very foundation of this argument -- that there are significant distinctions between the ideologies we define as politically "Right" and "Left" -- is the fatal flaw in it.

"Right or Left" -- a false choice of sinister design and application.