"There are three sorts of conspiracy: by the people who complain, by the people who write, by the people who take action. There is nothing to fear from the first group, the two others are more dangerous; but the police have to be part of all three,"
Quote:In one of the official twitter prokievskih media June 29 in comments to the news of the capture of militias DNR SAM "Buk" , the author of "Current Truth" citing data flightradar24 says the following: "in the scandal will be if the plane from Amsterdam shot down over the Donetsk " . Ie 18 days before the crash, he suggested that the aircraft specific flight Malaysian airlines flying from Amsterdam, can be brought down over the territory of the DNI !? As you know this was a daily flight and passed south of the DNI and the combat zone at 300 km. But in the day of the disaster suddenly changed his route, and he was directly over the territory of the DNI .
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"There are three sorts of conspiracy: by the people who complain, by the people who write, by the people who take action. There is nothing to fear from the first group, the two others are more dangerous; but the police have to be part of all three,"
Translated from Russian by Gleb Bazov (Subject to Editing)
Note: Videos & a PDF of the Google Web-cache Have Been Preserved and Are Available Upon Request
Preamble: Why did the BBC delete this report by Olga Ivshina? Is it because the BBC team was unable to find any evidence that a rocket was launched in the area that the Ukrainian Security Service ("SBU") alleges to be the place from which the Novorossiya Militia launched a "BUK" missile?
Or is it because every eyewitness interviewed by the BBC team specifically indicated the presence of Ukrainian military aircraft right beside the Malaysian Airlines Boeing MH17 at the time that it was shot down?
Or is it because of eyewitness accounts (like the one posted following the transcript of the BBC report) confirming that the Ukrainian air force regularly used civilian aircraft flying over Novorossiya as human shields to protect its military aircraft conducting strikes against civilian population from the Militia's anti-aircraft units?
I reserve the final judgment to the readers of this blog. This entry is broken down into:
introductory paragraphs to the BBC video report;
English-language transcript of the BBC video report; and,
a video interview with Elena, a Militia fighter, recorded in Slavyansk on or about June 18, 2014, or one month prior to the MH17 catastrophe, wherein she states that, even then, the Ukrainian military aircraft would customarily hide behind civilian aircraft to bomb civilian targets on the ground.
In the last part of this entry Elena predicts that the Ukrainian military will stage the horrible catastrophe like the MH17 crash she makes this prediction one whole month prior to the disaster.
Video: The Catastrophe of #MH17: #BBC in the Search of the "#BUK"
The "black boxes" of the crashed Malaysian Boeing have finally been transferred into the hands of the experts. However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.
The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a "BUK" complex that came in from Russia.
The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a "BUK" missile.
BBC reporter Olga Ivshina and producer Oksana Vozhdayeva decided to find the place from which the missile was allegedly launched.
Transcript of the BBC Video Report
DPR Representative: Here it is.
Quote:Olga Ivshina, BBC: The black boxes from the crashed Boeing are finally being transferred into the hands of the experts. However, how much can they tell us?
The recorders logged the coordinates and the heading of the aircraft at the time of the incident and may have recorded the sound of the explosion. However, they will not tell us what exactly caused the explosion.
The inhabitants of the nearby villages are certain that they saw military aircraft in the sky shortly prior to the catastrophe. According to them, it actually was the jet fighters that brought down the Boeing.
Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …
Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.
Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.
Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian government rejects this version of events. They believe that the Boeing was shot down using a missile from a "BUK" complex that came in from the direction of Russia.
Vitaliy Naida, Department of Counterintelligence of SBU [Ukrainian Security Service]: This was a BUK M1 system from which the aircraft was shot down. It came to Ukraine early in the morning on the 17th of July. It was delivered by a tow truck to the city of Donetsk. After that, it was redeployed from Donetsk, as part of a column of military equipment, to the area of the city of Torez, to the area of Snezhnoye, to the area of Pervomaisk.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The Ukrainian Security Service has published photographs and a video, which, in its opinion, prove that the Boeing was shot down with a "BUK" missile. We attempted to verify these photographs and information at the location.
One of the photographs showed a landscape not far from the city of Torez, on which smoke could be seen coming from the presumed location of the missile's launch. We attempted to find this location, and it appears that we were successful.
We are now on the outskirts of the city of Torez. Behind me, approximately five kilometres away, is the city of Snezhnoye. And the landscape here matches the landscape that we can see on the photograph published by the Ukrainian Security Service.
To find the place from which the smoke was allegedly coming from, we adopted as markers these three poplars and the group of trees. Presumably, this is the place that can be seen on the photograph published by the SBU. And here are our markers: the three solitary poplars and the small group of trees in the distance.
The smoke that can be seen on the photograph came from somewhere over there [pointing behind her], behind my back. The SBU believes that this is a trace coming from the launch of a "BUK" missile.
However, it must be noted that there are here, approximately in the same place, the Saur-Mogila memorial, near which the fighting continues almost unabated, and a coalmine. It turns out that the smoke with the same degree of probability could have been coming from any of these locations.
Having circled around the nearby fields, we were unable to find any traces of a missile launch. Nor did the local inhabitants that we encountered see any "BUK" either.
At the ruins of an apartment building in the city of Snezhnoye, the topic of the jet fighters that may have been escorting civilian aircraft comes up again. A bomb dropped from above took away the lives of eleven civilians here.
Sergey Godovanets, Commander of the Militia of the city of Snezhnoye: They use these civilian aircraft to hide behind them. It is only now that they stopped flying over us but, usually, civilian aircraft would always fly above us. And they hide [behind them]. [The experience in] Slavyansk had demonstrated that they would fly out from behind a civilian aircraft, bomb away, and then hide, once again, behind the civilian aircraft and fly away.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: The commander of the local militia emphasizes that they have no weaponry capable of shooting down a jet fighter [flying] at a significant height. However, he says that if such weaponry were to appear, they would have tried to.
Sergey Godovanets: If we know that it is not a civilian aircraft, but a military one, then yes.
Olga Ivshina, BBC: So, could the Boeing have been shot down by the militias that had mistaken it for a military aircraft? There is as yet no unequivocal confirmation of either this or any other version [of what took place]. The international experts are just beginning their work with the information obtained from the crashed airliner. It now appears that it is difficult to overstate the importance of this investigation. Olga Ivshina, BBC.
Militia Elena: Ukrainian Military Planes Hide Behind Civilian Airliners
Video: Recorded at least one month prior to MH17 Crash, published with ENG subs on June 18, 2014
Note: Pay close attention starting at 01:10
"There are three sorts of conspiracy: by the people who complain, by the people who write, by the people who take action. There is nothing to fear from the first group, the two others are more dangerous; but the police have to be part of all three,"
Quote:A leaked conversation between Obama and Poroshenko from July 22 at 18:5 19:12 PM (local Kiev time) was published. While the authenticity is hard to ascertain, the text accords with the other independent forensic evidence, which has already been established. In particular, the conversation addresses the adamant denial and silence of the White House and Kiev with respect to the already established fact that a Ukrainian SU-25 was right with the Malaysian airliner when that was hit with a missile. The text also accords with the sudden disappearance of the Spanish air traffic controller "Carlos," who was reporting from the Kiev airport in real time on the downing of the Malaysian Boeing with his tweets, as the tragedy was taking placeduring that very time and in the very next hour only to disappear immediately after together with his twitter account. The text also accords with the reported disappearance of the Ukrainian air traffic controller from Dnepropetrovsk, who was the last officially communicating with the plane before its crash. The text also accords with the reported refusal of the Ukrainian authorities to provide records of the communications between the Ukrainian air traffic control and the MH17 plane. The text also accords with the reported subsequent "loss" of the records of the communication and conversations between the Malaysian plane and the Ukrainian air traffic control. The text also accords with the sudden replacement of the previous original flight paths of MH17 between Amsterdam and Kuala Lumpur, which many started to notice as of July 24. The original flight paths showed that, on July 17, LH17 significantly deviated almost 300 miles north so that, instead of flying south of Donbass, the new route put LH17 right over the middle of the Donetsk People's Republic. The "new" and false flight paths, which appeared on July 24, moved the previous flight paths alongside the new path of July 17. Furthermore, even earlier, weather reports for Donetsk on July 17 and that week also disappeared from whether channels. All this strongly indicates a massive cleanup operation, which could be undertaken and ordered only by a governmentthe US government. Thursday, July 24, 2014 8:14 to quote pad +
Last night one of the staff unit of government of Ukraine for $ 1 million sold a correspondent of one of the news agencies in Germany to record phone conversations between U.S. and Ukraine, which took place on July 22 at 18-53 -19-12 European time. The recording was transferred to Berlin, on the content of it was immediately informed Merkel. She ordered "under any conditions, the content of this talk in the media not to disclose." However, one officer of the German secret services (presumably working on Poland) managed to pass the transcript of the conversation Poroshenko-Obama in Warsaw, where it feeds through undercover and became known to Russian intelligence. Transcript of a very long, because cite only one of the fragments: "Poroshenko: - Barack, I am surprised and upset your inconsistency in reporting the causes destruction of the Boeing ... That We point you to the separatists, then to Moscow, then suddenly declare that the evidence of its involvement in this case is not ... We agreed from the beginning to stick to one position ... But if you continue to make such statements, it will be difficult to resist Moscow ... Obama: - Easy, Peter. You apparently misunderstood the nature of our applications ... We say "unavailable" ... But a lot of work on it ... But you have to work a lot more now, to ... to ... to ... it all looked as possible plausible ... You made a big mistake by sending this very ... Russian warplane ... got him ... And now you, and we will be very difficult obyasnit world ... why this was necessary ... Poroshenko: - We did not have confidence that the ground we will succeed ... I had to check ... and err ... Obama - I know, I know ... But it's not included in our understanding of the pattern of events And now ... at the hands of Russian have another trump card ... Poroshenko: - As it happened, how it happened ... Obama: - Peter, you see, what happened ... This is bad ... I mean that your plane that flew after us ... This adds a lot of trouble ... Poroshenko: - We both denied everything, and will deny ... The main thing to you, it has not tripped up by these strange statements about his innocence Russian ... We are with you should be consistent in this ... Otherwise it will be difficult ... Obama: - We will support you throughout the ... We are sailing in the same boat ... Do not hesitate ... Although you have completed our overall plan to delay ... It had to happen a little earlier ... Poroshenko: - But you well know the level of training of our specialists ... Obama - I'm worried that someone from these most experts do not spill the beans ... Russian probably already hunting them. Try these .. save his people ... If they open mouth ... Poroshenko: - I understand ... We will make sure that they never open my mouth ... Obama: - You need to tightly control all svidelstvo and witnesses This ... can spoil all our party ... Poroshenko: - And what about the black boxes? ... I sent to England to their experts ... they worked in contact with the British ... But Russian also require access to this tape recorders or whatever ... It's very dangerous for us, for you ... Russian there and should not be close ... Otherwise ... Obama - I have already spoken on this matter with Cameron ... Everything It will be okay ... people will do anything wrong "...
Ð’ ТЕЛЕФОÐÐОМ Ð ÐЗГОВОРЕ С ОБÐМОЙ ПОРОШЕÐКО ПРИЗÐÐЛСЯ, ЧТО БОИÐГ СБИЛИ УКРÐИÐСКИЕ ПВО, "РДОБИВÐЛ СУ-25"...
Четверг, 24 Ð˜ÑŽÐ»Ñ 2014 г. 08:14 + в цитатник
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I'm sure all here know that the Ukrainian Military is making a push now to get a hold of the area near and including the crash site, despite an agreed upon 40km non-engagement zone around it. This is very ominous - and a break from the agreement with the separatist militia. Meanwhile the 'Western' governments are making the most insane suggestions about sending an international military force to secure the crash area. Does someone have something to hide? While all are saying or hinting that their motives are pure and they only want to 'secure' the crash site so that a 'real' investigation can begin, the recent fighting in the area caused the inspectors to NOT deploy to the area yesterday and most likely for the foreseeable future. The Ukrainian military is one of the suspects [as are the separatists] in the shoot-down. The separatists have given access, and while they did disturb a few items, there is no reliable evidence of major tampering with the evidence on the ground. A change of the status quo would only delay and/or destroy more of the evidence, as the Ukrainian 'regulars' are bombing in the area, among other activities. One has to speculate what their real motives are in this endeavor!....
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
The implications of NATO members sending armed personnel to "Help protect the investigators" are grave indeed. At it's most trivial, absurd and rhetorical, it begs the question "Protect them from who, what and with what?"
With just a modicum of thought it is clear that the scenario painted in this article is frighteningly credible.
Meanwhile the Western MSM warmongering crescendo of blame and condemnation of Putin/Russia is, if anything getting even louder. As in this from Forbes (often a publisher of reasonably establishment-sceptical stuff) this morning:Times Report Casts Shame on Obama's Handling of Ukraine Crisis . Hint he is being far too tolerant of evil Russia and should have sent in the US military ages ago. [URL="http://antifasistit.blogspot.com/2014/07/ukraine-warning-of-imminent-wwiii.html"] [/URL]
Open-source intelligence points to an imminent danger of RussiaNATO war in the Ukraine.
I now think MH17 crashed exactly where it was planned, right in the center of Donbass. Cities form a protective ring around Donbass, but the crash site in the middle of agricultural fields is the perfect spot for an Ukie / NATO airborne invasion.
The retired Russian air force colonel Aleksand Zhilin claimed the NATO plan was to crash the plane in the Southern Calderon so that the Ukie troops now trapped there could be relieved by airborne NATO forces. He said that this plan failed as the plane somehow diverted north and landed in area held the Novorossiyan Armed Forces.
Zhilin says that based on the Russian ATC radar data confirmed by the transponder data stored in the FlightRadar24 database the plane flew some 10 km past the crash site, somehow magically turned around and crashed coming from the east. The pattern of debris however proves the exact opposite: the plane came from the west. http://ai-zhilin.livejournal.com/1419422.html
The fact is, that the GPS data received by MH17 and forwarded to Russian ATC by its transponder beeps and to the FlightRadar24 database through its automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B) beeps is 20 km from where the plane was at the time.
This can only be explained in two ways:
The false GPS data came form an escort fighter spoofing HM17
MH17 was fed false GPS by the GPS jammer on the escort fighter.
This is exactly the kind of end result that NATO would like to achieve with their false-flag MH17 attack. The security threat posed by these troops / "unarmed" police can only be offset by a tenfold number of *armed* Russian troops. (Or a Russian no-fly, no-drive zone over all of Donbass.)
One must assume that the real mission of these troops is to prepare the landing zone for a NATO or Ukrainian airborne offensive, or alternatively, an Ukrainian armed breakthrough. It does not matter if the troops are unarmed. Their role is to act as the eyes and ears of the invading force. They will hide in the bushes looking for "evidence" and report on the movement of Novorossiyan forces with their satellite communication gear.
Australia has "promised" to send 200 armed troops. These are already in the UK I hear. With whom did they agree about this mission? Kiev? I do not think anyone asked Novorossiya or even Russia. How the hell do they think they will get in? On the heels of the of a Ukie tank battalion?
(It is more likely the Australians would need to spearhead the tank battalion, and act as the infantry protection Ukie tanks are desperately lacking.)
To quote the Malaysian pro-NATO press:
"You need radar, reconnaissance, commandos, anti-tank weapons, attack helicopters... Well, that's starting to look like a small-scale war," Klep told Dutch broadcaster NOS. http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malays...perts-warn
***
We are now waiting for direct US and NATO aggression on the Ukraine and Novorossiya. Russia needs to make the choice now; whether to defend Novorossiya or allow total NATO occupation of the Ukraine.
It is clear that all NATO actions are aimed at provoking Russia to act militarily. This would allow the US to isolate Russia from its "International Community". It is widely believed that this is a trap and Russia should not fall for it.
Yet other are saying that Putin has a cunning plan, and after two years of US occupation Russia would somehow magically turn the tide. Maybe.
On the other hand, NATO very much wants all of Ukraine. They very much hope that Russia will not intervene and kill their troops. (Russkies killing Russkies is always a good thing.) They want to occupy Ukraine without any effort.
Russia is now between Scylla and Charybdis. Both alternatives are horrible. To decide, Russia must resolve which is the outcome NATO wants and chose the other.
Russia must understand that NATO is now the reincarnation of the Third Reich.
".....there is something far worse than Nazism, and that is the hubris of the Anglo-American fraternities, whose routine is to incite indigenous monsters to war, and steer the pandemonium to further their imperial aims" Guido Preparata. Preface to 'Conjuring Hitler'[size=12][size=12] "Never believe anything until it has been officially denied" Claud Cockburn
Peter Lemkin Wrote:I'm sure all here know that the Ukrainian Military is making a push now to get a hold of the area near and including the crash site, despite an agreed upon 40km non-engagement zone around it. This is very ominous - and a break from the agreement with the separatist militia. Meanwhile the 'Western' governments are making the most insane suggestions about sending an international military force to secure the crash area. Does someone have something to hide? While all are saying or hinting that their motives are pure and they only want to 'secure' the crash site so that a 'real' investigation can begin, the recent fighting in the area caused the inspectors to NOT deploy to the area yesterday and most likely for the foreseeable future. The Ukrainian military is one of the suspects [as are the separatists] in the shoot-down. The separatists have given access, and while they did disturb a few items, there is no reliable evidence of major tampering with the evidence on the ground. A change of the status quo would only delay and/or destroy more of the evidence, as the Ukrainian 'regulars' are bombing in the area, among other activities. One has to speculate what their real motives are in this endeavor!....
Yes Peter. It is beginning to look like the Ukrainian military want to destroy the crime scene and cover up any evidence....now why would they do that?
I was thinking a few days ago that the DPR and locals should just go and collect everything one group plane wreckage, another body parts and another personal belongings. And get it all out of there ASAP. There are enough photographs of the fallout area from the satellites and the journalists on the ground. Some very extensively documented. There is no reason to any of these foreigners to be there. Aircraft wreckage is reconstructed in hangars not in the field to determine causes. DNA matching is also done in laboratories not in the field. It is looking like a trojan horse operation.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx
"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.
“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Peter Lemkin Wrote:I'm sure all here know that the Ukrainian Military is making a push now to get a hold of the area near and including the crash site, despite an agreed upon 40km non-engagement zone around it. This is very ominous - and a break from the agreement with the separatist militia. Meanwhile the 'Western' governments are making the most insane suggestions about sending an international military force to secure the crash area. Does someone have something to hide? While all are saying or hinting that their motives are pure and they only want to 'secure' the crash site so that a 'real' investigation can begin, the recent fighting in the area caused the inspectors to NOT deploy to the area yesterday and most likely for the foreseeable future. The Ukrainian military is one of the suspects [as are the separatists] in the shoot-down. The separatists have given access, and while they did disturb a few items, there is no reliable evidence of major tampering with the evidence on the ground. A change of the status quo would only delay and/or destroy more of the evidence, as the Ukrainian 'regulars' are bombing in the area, among other activities. One has to speculate what their real motives are in this endeavor!....
Yes Peter. It is beginning to look like the Ukrainian military want to destroy the crime scene and cover up any evidence....now why would they do that?
I was thinking a few days ago that the DPR and locals should just go and collect everything one group plane wreckage, another body parts and another personal belongings. And get it all out of there ASAP. There are enough photographs of the fallout area from the satellites and the journalists on the ground. Some very extensively documented. There is no reason to any of these foreigners to be there. Aircraft wreckage is reconstructed in hangars not in the field to determine causes. DNA matching is also done in laboratories not in the field. It is looking like a trojan horse operation.
With good satellite or drone photos plus metal detectors - one could easily map most all of the wreckage. With trained dogs, one could find almost all the remaining body parts. Both could be removed with representatives of any group who wanted [unarmed] watching in a few days. Ukraine is the one breaking the agreement of no fighting in that 40km ring around the crash. The plane parts would fit in a few large semi-trucks; the body parts in one refrigerator truck. Someone, or several parties, don't want anything done; but at the moment the Ukrainian military seems to be the worst offender and/or foot-dragger.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Malaysian plane crashes on Ukraine-Russia border - live
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