Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth

[Magda Hassan]

I was released from custody three weeks after the Warren Commission completed there findings.

Damn! I bet those WC fellas sure were disappointed you couldn't make it Tosh. :lollypop:

[Tosh Plumlee]

OH YES! I did hear from them..., and years later when John Roselli was found chopped up in a drum, I heard from them again. And when Senator Church made his entrance into the fray, I heard from them again..., and when Senator Tom Downing started collecting evidence... I again heard from them.... soon thereafter, when I was working on a manuscript, 'The Black Knights of Cuba' my home in Grant Colorado was fire bombed (Aug 1981 ref;. Rocky Mountain News by Tim Mc Govern) and then there was Contra and Senator Hart, DEA agent Ki KI Camarena and his pilot were murdered, Berry Seal and Scott Wheeler, assassinated, and then the strange death of Marine Col Jim Sabow...not to mention others.

Yes, I have heard from them many times when THEY got nervous. Why haven't they killed me? Believe me they have tried... BUT, THEY again thought different because I had planted to much information in to many places over to many years.., before the fact ...,and someone in high places would start asking to many questions. The 'THEY', I reference, does not mean the CIA... there are other powers that be other than the CIA.

Its been a long Hard ride... and the sunset is coming. After I am gone pieces of the puzzel will start to fit together..., again.., but it will not make any difference. By then all our freedoms will be gone and the "Black government" within a government of the people will have destoryed the fiber of this country and America as we know her will be lost forever.

The future assassinations of our leaders, who believe in our way of life and others who believe in the secret war to keep our democracy free of corruption , will be swallowed up and lost within the powers of corrupt political special interest. That war is not over yet. It has just begain.

The flame of JFK still burns, although it is now only a flickering light seen from far away. However, it still burns brightly in the hearts of true Americans.

[Peter Lemkin]

By then all our freedoms will be gone and the "Black government" within a government of the people will have destoryed the fiber of this country and America as we know her will be lost forever.

The future assassinations of our leaders, who believe in our way of life and others who believe in the secret war to keep our democracy free of corruption , will be swallowed up and lost within the powers of corrupt political special interest. That war is not over yet. It has just begain.

The flame of JFK still burns, although it is now only a flickering light seen from far away. However, it still burns brightly in the hearts of true Americans.

Thanks for that Tosh! I hope others realize the significance of what you are saying, given the 'places' you've 'been' and the things you've both done and seen - not to mention the people you've known and a long inside peek in the 'belly of the beast'. You are also correct that the Company is down the list of the pecking order of the Deep Black Government. Let's hope we can save the whole damn thing in the last moment...which should be soon now......given the way things are going.

[Tosh Plumlee]

The following statement I just added to the first post of this thread as well as attatching other documents, which I feel are important to the overall view of this thread:

"... Proof that the FBI and some researchers play fast and loose with the Truth ..".

"... note: the documents below, in the attatchments, are the files destoryed by the FBI. There have been more since the recorded date of 1981: some of those early 1964 destoryed FBI documents, should have gone to the Warren Commision and later to the HSCA in 1976. Only the files that were not complete went to the HSCA and those were slanted to discredit the source found in the files... . To me it raises the question of WHY?

In my view it proves that the FBI and the Department of Justice
, and other government agencies, knew there was a conspiracy to assassinate JFK. Why else would they destory files and tamper with a witness?

Also of note when an investigative committee requested an FOIA on me in Feb. 23, 1993 (as well as a request filed by me) We were told "No records could be found"..., although they had released over four hundred pages to Barnard Finistrawald Jr in 1982 or 83:

Attached Files:

FBIlist2 files destoryed by FBI.pdf (207.5 KB, 0 views)
FBIlist3 destoryed files 2.pdf (187.8 KB, 0 views)

[Linda Minor]

Yes Linda, I understand. Let me say you have done a fine job in pulling all the information together.

I have known about the MF material for a few years now and have ask a few years ago why all the documents pertaining to my background were not there... only the negative documents were obtained from various places and were posted in various locations. Sometime later, they were turned over to the MF site and other researchers, but not the complete record (the check incident I pointed out is one of many examples of incomplete documentations) I ask many people to see if they could find the documents I make reference... I was told "they did not exist".

However in reference to the checks, of which the FBI made reference, only the section saying I had been arrested at More House Fashions attempting to pass a forged check, and was arrested my local authorities was the only documents found.

The other reports.. being arrest by Customs with an aircraft loaded with guns, as well as the FBI lab report saying they could not find any checks written by me, was not included in the file.

When I question why I was being reported as a "hot check writer" by various researchers and explained that there were other documents which proved otherwise and should be included with the negative document, I was told to send them (MF and others) the documents and they would be put with the record. I did that and they were never put with the record or file. Some years later I read in a book that said I had written hot checks all across the country and was not what I claimed.

The check incident is only one incident, of which I pointed out to many over the years, and I accused the FBI and others of holding back information on my background so as to discredit me and my activities. In some cases this was done in order for some to prove their theories and to get publishing contracts and books on their theories, What I had to say about military/CIA operations was therefore not creditable. They had the FBI which had said I was arrested for hot checks when I had said I was flying operations for the government. I have always asked, "What was their motive for this?

Linda you have done a very good job in pulling some of this together. In my opinion you are the first researcher that has even taken the time to really look into most of the material that is scattered in the public domain concerning me.

I know some will say well I worked my ass off trying to prove what you have said... well all I can say to them is, "well you did not look very hard"... the check incident is one glaring example of many that most researchers have missed... In my opinion I think some of them missed it on purpose... for whatever reasons.....

I do not plan to get sucked back into the JFK mess ever again. Anything I have had to say on that can of worms has been said, public, and to various government committees; because some of the details are.., still classified, I can't help that and too,I have no control over any of that.

So Linda, My post was not direct toward you in any negative way. You have at least done something in regard to truth... beside just asking me questions after questions and telling me your speculations and then presented them as FACTS that go nowhere except for "entertainment purposes" for a select few. You have not done that and I thank you. Tosh

Tosh,
I must be the only member of this forum who doesn't know all about the past experiences and who is trying to find out. Maybe that is why the guys at EF refer to this as a chat room. I have received lots of response here saying what great research I do. I never respond to that. I just wait for others to do the same thing. Maybe everybody else is just too busy, too tired or already knows everything. But I will keep trying to find out who the guys are who are a part of the American government who keep messing things up. Who they work for.
In a later post to the one quoted above you mentioned Grace Ranch. We can at least start there. I hope somebody else will pursue these leads as well.

http://www.geocities.com/cruzzer2/mafia/index.html

[Tosh Plumlee]

Thanks again Linda. I'll try to help anyway I can by pointing to documentation which I think is important in reference to background. I could not do that on the other forum because on infighting and having to defend myself from attacks because my documents or statements did not agree with others theories, research or books they were writing. It seems to me some were allowed to speculate and advance their theories on various subjects and some of the material contained within my references were in direct conflict with their projects. I was also told by various researchers that they could not use the information because I was the sole source of the inflormation according to the FBI and they had said I was not a creditable source.

Instead of looking at the material provided all the time was spent on defending the record and pointing out false information contained within various FBI documentation. I'll take the liberty to point one of those overlooked discrepancies found within the FBI file of 1976 if I may:

Background:

(notice the dates of contact with the FBI concerning information about Roselli and the date when the body of Roselli was found. ... note also, I had taken three lie detector test; two at the Phoenix Organized Crime office and one at the FBI office... all there were passed... the FBI report, concerning the test was destoryed and the Phoenix test disappeared some years after the HSCA was completed)

cont background.....

I contacted the local PHX FBI office after being advised to do so by then Senator Berry Goldwater's # 1 Security Adviser, Sargent Ray Lambertson of the Arizona Department of Public Safety. Previously I had given Sgt. Lambertson a .38 cal pistol that John Roselli had given me for my personal protection, because he was concerned about his safety as well as mine. I wanted Sargent Lambertson to run a background check on the weapon to make sure it was not involved in any killings in Miami or other places. The weapon was clean. I also contacted my UC "cut-out" contact person at the Phoenix Organized Crime Division, Sargent Ed Salem, I gave him the same information concerning the weapon, and he too, confirmed it being "clean".


I meet with the FBI and advised them that I was advised to contact them by Senator Goldwarter's office. I voiced to them my concerns about my safety and also the safety of Roselli. And too, I asked them if I was going to be subpoenaed They were of no help and advised me to contact local authorities if I was concerned about my safety..., and too,they would not tell me if I was going to me Subpoenaed.

At that meeting, I stressed that I was concern about the safety of JOHN ROSELLI and named him and gave them(the FBI) detail information about my associations with Roselli and the Grace Ranch of Tucson. That was about three days before John Roselli was found dead in Miami.

In one of the FBI documents released in a FOIA request, the FBI reported that I had not named the person I was concerned about in that first of serval meetings with them; indicating that I had only named him after his body had been found. However, another FBI document clearly states two days after the body of Roselli had been found they (FBI) came to my home and wanted to know everthing I knew about Roselli.

My point. If I had not named him in the first meetings (and others during that time frame) then why did they (FBI) come to my house asking about Roselli? This is only one of many examples of the FBI changing and omitting information in their field reports as well as their HQ reports. (the documents I make reference to were not released until another FOIA request was made in 1999)

The 1978 filed reports went to the HSCA as the documents show. (some of these documents can be found on the MF site as well as the toshplumlee.info website, today.

[Linda Minor]

Tosh approached Denver FBI--July 1959 about gun-running group in Miami; flying guns from Marathon Island to Cuba; he thought they came from Akron, Ohio, according to "Larry Allen".
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...lPageId=20

questioned by Agent Hickman in Denver
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...lPageId=24

Ellie Carter from Oklahoma
Ciro's Night Club in Piedras Negras, Mexico
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...lPageId=27

Detroit FBI office, Agent Joe O'Rourke, told agent in Denver he was not interested in the matter of the gun-running, since Plumlee was arrested in Columbus, which was too far inland for him to have been involved in flying to Cuba.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...lPageId=29

[Linda Minor]

Here is one hit at Mary Ferrell website about Plumlee relative to information requested and/or received by Kansas City office of FBI from Cincinnati.

NO TITLE pg 2
Found in: FBI - HSCA Subject File: William Robert Plumlee
conducted at Kansas C-ty Mo. 5/27/59 by SA CLARENCE C GARDNER at the Continental Hotel to ascertain if PLUMLEE was or had been registered at the hotel or was otherwise known to personnel of the hotel
RIF#: 124-10289-10471 (05/19/59) FBI#: 105-76496-8, 9, 10


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...eId=838998
Continental Hotel and gun-running inquiries made by agent in Kansas City. KC office received report from Cincinnati saying Plumlee had been arrested on hot check charges, etc. It sounds as though the disinfo came directly from Cincinnati office.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...elPageId=4
Photographs and other reports were included in the airtel and requested that they be returned.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...elPageId=8
The arrest was made of a person named William H. Pearson, alleged to be an alias for Plumlee.

Other hits:
FBI - HSCA Subject File: William Robert Plumlee
last search



Sort by: Title Date NARA RIF Number Agency File Number


Page: 1 2
1. Index for FBI HSCA Subject: William Robert Plumlee, File 105-76496
RIF#: 000-00000-00000 FBI#: FBI HSCA SUBJECT FILES
2. Index for FBI HSCA Subject: William Robert Plumlee, File 26-157654
RIF#: 000-00000-00000 FBI#: FBI HSCA SUBJECT FILES
3. Index for FBI HSCA Subject: William Robert PlumLee, Main File 62-117228
RIF#: 000-00000-00000 FBI#: FBI HSCA SUBJECT FILES
4. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, CUBAN REBEL ACT, US, WEAPONS, AMMO
RIF#: 124-10226-10499 (03/02/59) FBI#: 26-157654-1ST NR 3
5. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: [ RESTRICTED ]
RIF#: 124-10226-10498 (06/06/52) FBI#: 26-157654-3

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...elPageId=5
This one, strangely concerns info on Plumlee in 1952, when he would have been about 13 years old, with almost the entire document redacted!

6. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, INSPECTION RPT
RIF#: 124-10226-10497 (05/19/52) FBI#: 26-157654-1ST NR 2
7. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: [ RESTRICTED ]
RIF#: 124-10226-10496 (03/18/52) FBI#: 26-157654-1, 2
8. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, AKA, CONSPR, ASSOC, ARREST, AIRCRAFT, STOLEN; WEAPONS
RIF#: 124-10289-10484 (09/08/59) FBI#: 105-76496-25, 26, 27, 28, 29
9. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, INTV, ASSOC, TRANSPORTING STOLEN PROPERTY, CUBAN; REVOLUTIONARY ACT
RIF#: 124-10289-10483 (08/13/59) FBI#: 105-76496-1ST NR 23, 24
10. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, INTV, CONSPR, CONTRADICTORY
RIF#: 124-10289-10482 (07/14/59) FBI#: 105-76496-22, 23
11. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, SUTOR, STUART, CONSPR
RIF#: 124-10289-10481 (07/20/59) FBI#: 105-76496-21
12. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, IDENT, ADMIN
RIF#: 124-10289-10480 (07/15/59) FBI#: 105-76496-20
13. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, AKA, WHEREABOUTS, ASSOC, PRISONERS, COLUMBUS CITY; WORKHOUSE, INTV, LIGHT, JAMES E
RIF#: 124-10289-10479 (07/10/59) FBI#: 105-76496-19
14. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, BKG, INTV, ASSOC, SUSP
RIF#: 124-10289-10478 (07/15/59) FBI#: 105-76496-17, 18
15. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, CONSPR, TOP HOODLUMS
RIF#: 124-10289-10477 (07/15/59) FBI#: 105-76496-16
16. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, HOODLUM ACT, CONSPR, BURGLARY, NATIONAL; GUARD ARMORY, GUN RUNNING, CUBAN REVOLUTIONARY FORCES
RIF#: 124-10289-10476 (07/15/59) FBI#: 105-76496-15
17. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, PRISONER, COLUMBUS WORKHOUSE, RELEASE, TRA,; WHEREABOUTS
RIF#: 124-10289-10475 (06/23/59) FBI#: 105-76496-14
18. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, SUTTER, FRANK, FREELANCE PILOT, CARGO,; STOLEN WEAPONS, NATIONAL GUARD ARMORY, CANTON, OH
RIF#: 124-10289-10474 (06/26/59) FBI#: 105-76496-13
19. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP,INQUIRY, ADMIN
RIF#: 124-10289-10473 (06/19/59) FBI#: 105-76496-12
20. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ARREST, SHIPPING ARMS, CUBA
RIF#: 124-10289-10472 (06/04/59) FBI#: 105-76496-11
Page: 1 2

21. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, FORGED, PILOTS LICENSE, FLYING ARMS, CUBA,; REVOLUTIONARY ACT, WHEREABOUTS, HOTEL RECORDS
RIF#: 124-10289-10471 (05/19/59) FBI#: 105-76496-8, 9, 10
22. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, GM, SMO, THP, BURGLARY, NATIONAL GUARD; ARMORY, CANTON, OHIO, S AND S DISTRIBUTING CO.,; TRANSPORTING STOLEN PROPERTY, REVOLUTIONARY ACT, CUBA
RIF#: 124-10289-10470 (05/15/59) FBI#: 105-76496-6, 7
23. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, WHEREABOUTS
RIF#: 124-10289-10469 (05/11/59) FBI#: 105-76496-5
24. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ASSOC, WHEREABOUTS, ALLEN, LARRY, INTV, GUN; RUNNING ACT, STOLEN US PROPERTY, NATIONAL GUARD ARMORY,; NC, PAYOFFS, GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE
RIF#: 124-10289-10468 (05/06/59) FBI#: 105-76496-3, 4
25. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, INCARCERATED, FORGED CHECK, INTV, TRANSPORTING; ARMS, CUBA, ASSOC, THEFT, NATIONAL GUARD ARMORIES,; REVOLUTIONARY ACT
RIF#: 124-10289-10467 (04/27/59) FBI#: 105-76496-2
26. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, ARREST, DESCR, BKG, INTV, WEAPONS A/O AMMUNITION,; AIRCRAFT, CUBAN REVOLUTIONARY ACT
RIF#: 124-10289-10466 (02/16/59) FBI#: 105-76496-1
27. NO TITLE, SUBJECTS: WRP, CONTRACT PILOT, RES, TEST, CONGRESS, INTV, CIA; ACT, TELCAL, THREATS, ASSOC, JRO, PEP, JFK, BAY OF PIGS
RIF#: 124-10222-10492 (08/10/76) FBI#: 62-117228-1 _

[Linda Minor]

Arrest in 1958 of Stuart Sutor in Morgantown, W.Va, by Border Patrol, involving theft of National Guard armory in Canton, Ohio. He was taken to Pittsburgh. More than a year later, Cincinnati office added Plumlee's name as an associate of Sutor.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archiv...eId=838948

[Tosh Plumlee]

Linda. You just uncovered a 1959 CIA covert gun and aircraft smuggling operation. I hope you noticed the fact that US Customs arrested me in Columbus with guns bound for Cuba, and not the "local police" for cashing a hot check...,as the FBI stated. The B-26's from the Arizona metals company came from Maranda, AZ, a secret CIA supply base N/W of Davis Monthan AFB base. These aircraft were retro fitted used for covert activities in the Dominican Republic and Cuba. Some of them were used in the Bay of Pigs. I "ferried" most of these aircraft to Florida (Miami) from Arizona, where they were armed and modified for covert service. These were A-26 type aircraft and used in the BoP. (ref; two good pilot friends were killed on one of these aircraft #933 pilots named Crispin and Gonzales. Their bodies were removed from Central America in or around 2000, I think. The CIA knew they were still in the jungles in 1961, but never went in to remove the bodies from the crash site, untill around 1998 or 2000.)

There is more... a lot more.... I'll try to point you to more of the same. That is if you like????

note:I was 20 years old in 1957 and 22 in November 1959. I had already served six years with military intel covert operations when I got busted by US Customs with a aircraft full of National Guard weapons. I believe the record supports this. I helped train some of the Cuban pilots in the A-26 B-26; for the 1961 Bay of Pigs operation at 'Happy Valley" Nicaraqua. I was about twenty three (23) years of age at that time.