Delivery of the bronze O'Neil casket to Parkland

[Martin White]

I was watching a programme this afternoon about the assassination of Lincoln, and it stated that the assembled masses outside the house where Lincoln was taken first knew he was dead when they saw a coffin being delivered.

This set me thinking about the delivery of the casket to Parkland. Was this done after JFK's death was publicly announced at 1.38 CST? If not, I'm presuming that it was delivered to a back entrance to the hospital? Even so, with the number of reporters there, did none of them think to have anyone looking at the rear entrances? Did the arrival of the O'Neil car carrying the casket not catch anyone's attention? Or was it delivered in an unmarked car? Did no one see it being unloaded?

Actually, the general role of O'Neil's confuses me. Was it just a funeral home, or did they supply ambulances as well? I'm sure I saw that the ambulance that carried Oswald to Parkland was marked O'Neil on the side?

Thanks in advance to anyone that can clear this up. :-)

[David Josephs]

I was watching a programme this afternoon about the assassination of Lincoln, and it stated that the assembled masses outside the house where Lincoln was taken first knew he was dead when they saw a coffin being delivered.

This set me thinking about the delivery of the casket to Parkland. Was this done after JFK's death was publicly announced at 1.38 CST? If not, I'm presuming that it was delivered to a back entrance to the hospital? Even so, with the number of reporters there, did none of them think to have anyone looking at the rear entrances? Did the arrival of the O'Neil car carrying the casket not catch anyone's attention? Or was it delivered in an unmarked car? Did no one see it being unloaded?

Actually, the general role of O'Neil's confuses me. Was it just a funeral home, or did they supply ambulances as well? I'm sure I saw that the ambulance that carried Oswald to Parkland was marked O'Neil on the side?

Thanks in advance to anyone that can clear this up. :-)

Well let's see Martin...

The limo carried JFK to Parkland, not an ambulance.

The hearse from O'Neil Funeral Home transports the casket to Parkland to retrieve JFK AFTER Rose would have performed the autopsy to perform the embalming.

Mr. KELLERMAN. My next move, then, my next part in this was--by this time it was
after 1 o'clock--I am trying to pinpoint time after 1, because Dr. Burkley said
that the President had died; it was after 1 o'clock. By this time other people
who were in with Mr. Kennedy, such as his staff--I am speaking of Mr. O'Donnell,
Mr. Powers, I believe Larry O'Brien--through them, and I believe Mr. Hill, they
had obtained a casket from one of the funeral people in town.

Instead they took JFK and the casket to Love Field.

What I find strange about this testimony is that Rose did the Tippit and Oswald autopsies at Parkland. There would be no reason to take the body to the mortuary to perform an autopsy. Furthermore, it is obviously a HEARSE not an ambulance - but that's an understandable mistake.

As you can see, there is no "O'Neal" on the side of this hearse. The Navy Ambulance at Andrews does have writing on the side.

Hope that helped.
DJ



Mr. KELLERMAN. This I can't truly answer. However, I should say that, as for the
casket being brought into the hospital, another gentleman came into this little
doctor's room, his name I don't recall, but he represented himself to be from
the Health Department or commission, some form. He said to me, he said, "There
has been a homicide here, you won't be able to remove the body. We will have to
take it down there to the mortuary and have an autopsy." I said, "No, we are
not." And he said, "We have a law here whereby you have to comply with
it."
With that Dr. Burkley walked in, and I said Doctor, this man is from
some health unit in town. He tells me we can't remove this body." The Doctor
became a little enraged; he said, "We are removing it." He said, "This is the
President of the United States and there should be some consideration in an
event like this." And I told this gentleman, I said, "You are going to have to
come up with something a little stronger than you to give me the law that this
body can't be removed."
So, he frantically called everybody he could think of
and he hasn't got an answer; nobody is home. Shortly he leaves this little room
and it seems like a few minutes he is back and he has another gentleman with
him, and he said, "This is"--the name escapes me he said, "He is a judge here in
Dallas," and he said, "He will tell you whether you can remove this body or
not." I said, "It doesn't make any difference. We are going to move it," and I
said, "Judge, do you know who I am?"
And he said, "Yes," and I said, "There
must be something in your thinking here that we don't have to go through this
agony; the family doesn't have to go through this. We will take care of the
matter when we get back to Washington." The poor man looked at me and he said,
"I know who you are," and he said, "I can't help you out." I said. "All right,
sir." But then I happened to look to the right and I can see the casket coming
on rollers, and I just left the room and let it out through the emergency
entrance and we got to the ambulance and put it in, shut the door after Mrs.
Kennedy and General McHugh and Clinton Hill in the rear part of this
ambulance.
I am looking around for Mr. Greer and I don't spot him directly
because I want to get out of here in a hurry, and I recognize Agent Berger and I
said, "Berger, you get in the front seat and drive and, Mr. Stout, you get in
the middle and I will get on this side," and as we are leaving--Mr. Lawson, I
should say, was in a police car that led us away from Parkland Memorial
Hospital. As we are leaving a gentleman taps on the driver's window and they
roll it down and he says, "I will meet you at the mortuary." "Yes, sir." We went
to the airport, gentlemen.





This is the delivery of the casket in the O'Neal Hearse

[Martin White]

Hi David,

I said the ambulance that carried Oswald to Parkland, not JFK.

I'll look through the rest of your answer, thanks for the comprehensive reply.

Martin

[Martin White]

David

Are you sure that either picture shows the delivery of the casket to Parkland? In the top picture it looks to me like the two cycle cops are just getting ready to leave to escort the hearse, and the second picture has Jackie (with maybe Kellerman to her left?) which would again suggest the casket leaving for Love Field, not being delivered?

I just ordered a copy of Death of a President as I'm sure this detail would be in there somewhere.

thanks

Martin

[Martin White]

so this the ambulance that took Oswald to Parkland after Ruby shot him.

It looks like I mixed up, or conflated, my ONEAL and my O'Neil

The questions about timing and location of delivery remain though.

[David Josephs]

Hi David,

I said the ambulance that carried Oswald to Parkland, not JFK.

I'll look through the rest of your answer, thanks for the comprehensive reply.

Martin

My pleasure Martin...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GyNe6JJcfs is the video of the Ambulance arriving at Parkland with Oswald.

I don't see anything on the side exposed, yet this is supposedly the same vehicle... it appears that O'Neal handled ambulance calls as well since this is obviously an ambulance and not a hearse. Didn't an O'Neal ambulance also pick Tippit up?

http://images55.fotki.com/v508/photos/8/...set-vi.jpg





The bottom image is titled "Parkland delivery of casket" so I assumed it is after the hearse backed into the loading bay and is delivering the casket...yet the longer shadows and the people around the hearse may indeed mean it is later in the day... and they were leaving... nice catch.

[Martin White]

This is from the live TV broadcast from KRLD of the ambulance leaving DPD en route to Parkland





And this is the same view from NBC:





So the ambulance leaving the basement clearly has ONEAL printed on the front doors, and ALSO on the lower trunk lid.




I agree that the ONEAL is hard to pick on the footage of the ambulance arriving at Parkland.





In fact, it's hard not to conclude that the writing on the sides and rear of the ambulance has been blurred out by someone, somewhere.

Actually - a bit more searching turned up another clip where the ONEAL is clear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHZgOUrb7d0



Why it would have been removed from the first clip, I can't imagine.

[Martin White]

so this the ambulance that took Oswald to Parkland after Ruby shot him.

It looks like I mixed up, or conflated, my ONEAL and my O'Neil

The questions about timing and location of delivery remain though.

Well, this obviously isn't the same, visually, as the one that was used on 11/24/63. That one had two roof mounted lights on each side of the siren.

The website I got this photo from also lists "a faithful replica" of the JFK limo, complete with JFK and Jackie figures, and yet it's a standard Lincoln with no jump seats.....