Alan is ignoring my point that he totally missed how, by his own logic, Prayer Man being well forward of Frazier and appearing shorter and Frazier being behind Prayer Man and appearing taller is contrary to his own perspective claims and works in my favor. This would only exaggerate and emphasize the height difference and reinforce my evidence. Instead of honestly answering this he re-posted an irrelevant and invalid analogy to another photo.
Alan is contemptuously ignoring that two film clips both showed Prayer Man obviously standing on the landing, not to mention Fratini's evidence. Alan flagrantly ignores both.
David would respond by saying no comparison is possible under any circumstances or premise because of his specious focal point claims. However we have seriously narrowed down the terms of that claim to some very specific factors that can be reasonably determined. Darnell's lens can be found out. It will turn out to be an ordinary standard news camera lens commonly known to professionals. This will dismiss David's wild lens variety claim and force him to answer for some very determinable photo science that disproves his perspective claims. David scooted when forced to answer for the internal qualifiers in Darnell I pointed out that prove Prayer Man's location.
12-03-2016, 10:45 PM (This post was last modified: 12-03-2016, 11:01 PM by Alan Ford.)
On the contrary, Mr. Doyle, I'm not ignoring your "points" as much as trying to share all of the available facts. Any honest rendering of Prayer Man's position has to take into account the same dynamics exhibited by Mr. Cook (Don). To avoid this is to avoid the truth.
Now, once again, Mr. Doyle, Looking at this next photo image honestly ----->
*Credit Prayer-Man website
Do you really think the lady donned in black (4th step up) just ahead of the lady in white (3 steps up), with her head at the mid-section of Mr. Oswald is 7'4" tall?????, enabling her to reach his mid-section as IF he's way up there in the back shadows w/Mr. Frazier??????
The reason why her head reaches his mid-section there is because he is close to her, not far away standing up in the shadows with Mr. Frazier.
Alan Ford Wrote:On the contrary, Mr. Doyle, I'm not ignoring your "points" as much as trying to share all of the available facts. Any honest rendering of Prayer Man's position has to take into account the same dynamics exhibited by Mr. Cook (Don). To avoid this is to avoid the truth.
You say while ignoring how your 45 degree forward argument only works in my favor and you didn't realize it. Alan, you've ignored just about every single major point of evidence I've shown. You ignored Drew's math too.
Fratini's evidence proves Prayer Man is on the landing. You totally ignored it.
Alan Ford Wrote:Now, once again, Mr. Doyle, Looking at this next photo image honestly ----->
*Credit Prayer-Man website
Do you really think the lady donned in black (4th step up) just ahead of the lady in white (3 steps up), with her head at the mid-section of Mr. Oswald is 7'4" tall?????, enabling her to reach his mid-section as IF he's way up there in the back shadows w/Mr. Frazier??????
The reason why her head reaches his mid-section there is because he is close to her, not far away standing up in the shadows with Mr. Frazier.
What kind of nutty crap is this?
What the hell are you talking about? Where do you get 7 foot 4 and how does it have anything to do with my arguments?
Alan: For the 100th time - Both Unger and MacRae posted film clips that show Prayer Man is on the landing. My forensic locators that you and David ignored also prove it. Finally, the Fratini evidence you have yet to acknowledge proves it beyond a doubt. There is no other evidence (as your nutty entry here shows).
If you were smart you would realize the fact you can assign steps to people's locations proves there is no perspective distortion in Darnell. A credible analyzer would then use those perspective observations to realize Prayer Man is visibly much further back than the 4th step lady and therefore can be visually determined to not be on the first step down.
It is right there in front of you in your own photo. You're not too smart Alan. If you look at any photo of the front steps the first step down is the 6th step. Since you can clearly see the 4th step, as you yourself say here, you have no excuse for not seeing or admitting that Prayer Man is obviously too far back from the 4th step to be on the 6th step.
Your entry is incompetent by the way. Because donned in black lady's relationship to Prayer Man is dependent on camera height and not the nutty claim you make.
You're just being silly at this point.
Do you realize Mr Ford that while complimenting David Josephs and crediting him with disproving me that you just proved his claim wrong by being able to determine different objects at different distances in Darnell - and therefore proving my point? David said that no measurement of distance between objects was possible, but as you show here that simply isn't true. Mr Cross never responded when I pointed this out.
Now, once again, Mr. Doyle, Looking at this next photo image honestly ----->
You seriously want people to believe that the woman on only the 4th step up (leaving three more to navigate times (X) their total distance, added to Mr. Frazier's position well into the shadows is that tall??????
Now, once again, Mr. Doyle, the only reason her head is at the height of Mr. Oswald's mid-section is simply because he, unlike Mr. Frazier isn't far away well into the shadows. The only way this woman's head could position anywhere near Mr. Oswald's mid-section (as depicted in the photo, not merely an opinion) is either only two ways:
(1) he is MUCH closer to her than Mr. Frazier, or...
(2) she has to at the very least be 7'4" tall
Which is it is, Mr. Doyle? Do you know any TSBD female employees that tall, Mr. Doyle?
It's a difficult pill to swallow I'm sure, but you cannot have your cake and eat it too, meaning once you opened this up to taking measurements you cannot pick and choose which ones apply. Again, any honest, honest being the operative word here, evaluation of Mr. Oswald's position has to take into account his similarities w/Mr. Cook's right elbow and the forward distance of the pillar in contrast with the tight, restrictive landing well behind the same.
Last time, Mr. Doyle, Is the woman, who only stands upon the 4th step down with her head at Mr. Oswald's mid-section, with several more steps to navigate, 7'4" tall?????
An objective Q & A relative to Prayer Man is just a click away -----> http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/prayer-man-faq no distortions, no distractions...no masquerading women Prayer Man wannabes, nor a phantom 7'4" amazon woman climbing the entrance stairs either.
13-03-2016, 06:02 AM (This post was last modified: 13-03-2016, 06:32 AM by Albert Doyle.)
Alan Ford Wrote:You seriously want people to believe that the woman on only the 4th step up (leaving three more to navigate times (X) their total distance, added to Mr. Frazier's position well into the shadows is that tall??????
This is an incoherent statement. It isn't attached to any known measurements and doesn't make any reasoned point towards what we're talking about as far as I'm concerned. If you are questioning the woman's height, I don't see anything wrong with it or anything that conflicts with the known dimensions of the portal features.
This is Cinque-like craziness. What the hell are you talking about?
Alan Ford Wrote:Now, once again, Mr. Doyle, the only reason her head is at the height of Mr. Oswald's mid-section is simply because he, unlike Mr. Frazier isn't far away well into the shadows.
You have no clue of what you're talking about. Since you yourself agreed with David that no distance measurements could be made you have no right to simply claim such depth measurements without any confirming evidence.
You're a silly person Mr Ford. I have already explained, the only reason 4th step lady's head is at the height of Prayer Man's groin is because the elevation of Darnell's camera makes it appear that way. This perspective relationship has nothing to do with 4th step lady's proximity to Prayer Man if you follow the science. Your entry has no scientific basis. It is just the offhand statement of somebody with very little cogent understanding of what is being argued in this thread. 4th step lady's head is in line with Prayer Man's groin because the line from Darnell's camera makes it appear that way. This would be true if Prayer Man was 1 foot away or 6. You have no competent ability to argue this.
Alan Ford Wrote:The only way this woman's head could position anywhere near Mr. Oswald's mid-section (as depicted in the photo, not merely an opinion) is either only two ways:
(1) he is MUCH closer to her than Mr. Frazier, or...
(2) she has to at the very least be 7'4" tall
You're crazy. Your 7 foot 4 is not attached to any known measurements. If you bothered to competently analyze the portal you would find that 4th step lady is the same size as those around her and is in correct proportion to the known measurements of the steps she's on. If you bothered to do this credible analysis you would find she was of average height - like 5 foot 5 or so. This is an example of your incompetence and credulousness.
You forgot (3) {Which I already mentioned} Darnell's camera was at an elevation that created 4th step lady's alignment with Prayer Man's mid section. Your entry here is completely crazy garbage that proves nothing and doesn't answer what I argued in my previous post. It says something that you are allowed to get away with lowering this site's previous standard of rigor with this level of ROKC trolling and nobody calls you on it. If you were forced to explain why 4th step lady's head being even with Prayer Man's mid section makes her closer to Prayer Man in technical terms you wouldn't be able to do it. You are trying to use a vertical measurement to prove a depth relationship. That's not valid. It's garbage science and silly pseudo-analysis. And it is simply explained by Darnell's camera level. Meanwhile a simple look at the same image shows Prayer Man far back from 4th step woman and well separated. And why use 4th step lady when you can use white head lady in front of her? White head lady has to be another step up since she's in front of 4th step lady. Again, simple observation will show a good gap between white head lady and Prayer Man that instantly refutes your first step down claim.
Alan Ford Wrote:Last time, Mr. Doyle, Is the woman, who only stands upon the 4th step down with her head at Mr. Oswald's mid-section, with several more steps to navigate, 7'4" tall?????
The fact you would enter this kind of crap in response to the serious arguments I made and think it was a credible answer to what I wrote disqualifies you from serious debate by itself. If you bothered to observe the dimensions surrounding 4th step woman, as well as the other women around her, 4th step woman is 5 foot 5 or so and is no different in height than those around her. Your mid section argument possesses no scientific basis and no comprehensible logic and shows you have no clue of what is being argued here or even how to argue it. If the steps are 7 inches, 4 of them would be 28 inches. If Prayer Man was 5 foot 9 (as you suggest) half of that would be 34.5 inches equaling 62.5 inches. That's 5 foot 2 - not the nutty 7 foot 4 you are pulling out of nowhere with no explained reasoning. You're all wet and out in left field Alan. You show zero ability to argue this at any competent level and continue to enter a quality of argument that either shows moronacy or trolling. Or are you trying to provoke a site action against me?
The last time I saw something this nutty and this badly devoid of acceptable logic was Cinque.
By the way, you once again flagrantly ignored that MacRae's and Unger's film clips showed Prayer Man on the landing (as well as Fratini's evidence). Not to mention what's plainly visible in your own portal image.
The woman in question--on just the 4th step up--has her head at Mr. Oswald's mid-section, With three more steps to navigate before she reaches the top landing.
How on earth does this woman transcend those several steps left to navigate, plus stretch beyond the Cook-Prayer Man pillar all of the way back to Mr. Frazier's position?, so her head may rest in Mr. Oswald's mid-section as depicted in the photo?
Is she 7'4" tall (as derived from the remaining steps she has left to navigate + the difference from the pillar all of the way back into the shadows there w/Mr. Frazier), or does she have a long neck, Mr. Doyle? Which is it?
You opened this measurement dynamic up, so it's only fair that you at least make an account of how someone still several steps down from the top landing could have her head positioned in Mr. Oswald's mid-section before even arriving atop the landing IF he is actually standing beside Mr. Frazier on an even plane deep in the shadows as you imply. Fair is fair. So, again, Mr. Doyle, Is she a 7'4" amazon woman, or simply have an extensively looooooooooooooong neck sir?
What's more, Mr. Doyle, go ahead, slide her on an even plane representative of her position on the 4th step over to your right...okay steady now stop her when she aligns with Mr. Frazier, who is well above her position....What do you honestly see, honestly being the operative word here...if you are honest you see not only is she well below Mr. Frazier's position, nowhere near his body whatsoever, you also see at least two human figures in her path between her and Mr. Frazier, Don't you, Mr. Doyle? Or, Do you only see where your "evidence' leads?
An objective Q & A relative to Prayer Man is just a click away -----> http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/prayer-man-faq no distortions, no distractions, no phantom handbags, girdles, lipstick, masquerading Prayer Man wannabe's with exotic buttons, etc.
The woman in question--on just the 4th step up--has her head at Mr. Oswald's mid-section, With three more steps to navigate before she reaches the top landing.
How on earth does this woman transcend those several steps left to navigate, plus stretch beyond the Cook-Prayer Man pillar all of the way back to Mr. Frazier's position?, so her head may rest in Mr. Oswald's mid-section as depicted in the photo?
You have no competent understanding of what you are talking about. There is no "stretch beyond the pillar". If you had any competent understanding of what you were talking about the last step is already well past the pillar. You simply don't know what you're talking about and continue to enter incoherent demented information despite being shown the evidence.
Your statement above makes no sense. You are entering crazy incoherent garbage. When 4th step lady rose to the landing she would no longer be at Prayer Man's mid level. Your question makes no sense. It is quite demented.
Alan Ford Wrote:Is she 7'4" tall (as derived from the remaining steps she has left to navigate + the difference from the pillar all of the way back into the shadows there w/Mr. Frazier), or does she have a long neck, Mr. Doyle? Which is it?
This is demented trolling. When asked to provide the measurements, or what they are based on, you can't. Meanwhile competent analysis adds the remaining steps plus half of 5 foot 9 and gets 5 foot 2 - not your nutty 7 foot 4 that you are obviously pulling out of nowhere and can't validate.
Alan Ford Wrote:You opened this measurement dynamic up, so it's only fair that you at least make an account of how someone still several steps down from the top landing could have her head positioned in Mr. Oswald's mid-section before even arriving atop the landing IF he is actually standing beside Mr. Frazier on an even plane deep in the shadows as you imply. Fair is fair. So, again, Mr. Doyle, Is she a 7'4" amazon woman, or simply have an extensively looooooooooooooong neck sir?
I already explained this in strict argument with firm measurements. You answered with what could reasonably be called demented trolling.
You are simply seeing 4th step lady's head at that level because of the height of Darnell's camera and its line on the portal. There's nothing unusual about this and your argument is complete incomprehensible garbage.
Alan Ford Wrote:What's more, Mr. Doyle, go ahead, slide her on an even plane representative of her position on the 4th step over to your right...okay steady now stop her when she aligns with Mr. Frazier, who is well above her position....What do you honestly see, honestly being the operative word here...if you are honest you see not only is she well below Mr. Frazier's position, nowhere near his body whatsoever, you also see at least two human figures in her path between her and Mr. Frazier, Don't you, Mr. Doyle? Or, Do you only see where your "evidence' leads?
The same thing I just explained in strict math that you couldn't answer, only slid further over. The correct answer to your jerry built analogy is you would see that 4th step lady is much further down in comparison to Frazier than Prayer Man, which, if you stop to consider, only proves my main point that Frazier is too tall in relationship to Prayer Man for Oswald to be Prayer Man. But thanks for showing it another way Alan.
The reason you didn't use white head woman, who was the closest to Prayer Man, and one step above 4th step lady, was because it was obvious Prayer Man wasn't on the first step down when compared to her.
ROKC proxies and ROKC trolling should not be allowed on this board.
One more time, Mr. Doyle, there are a total of seven steps...here's a picture ----->
Now, note the vertical distance between each landing...
Then understand that we are using the woman with her head in Mr. Oswald's midsection (she is on the 4th step as depicted in this photo ----->
*Credit Prayer Man website
She still has several more steps to navigate, yet her head is already aligned w/Mr. Oswald's mid-section (not an opinion, the photo speaks for itself).
So, any honest observer would at least wonder how could she be this close to Mr. Oswald already IF he was really much higher up and back in the shadows w/Mr. Frazier, reasoning that with several more steps to go her head shouldn't be aligned at Mr. Oswald's mid-section at this juncture in her ascent. Maybe once she was all of the way up perhaps, but why so early so many steps down IF he really is much higher up and well into the back shadows w/Mr. Frazier.
There are only two ways her head could already be in the wrongfully accused's mid-section only this far up that landing, she is either an amazon woman standing 7'4" or she has an extensively looooong neck, Mr. Doyle.
Now, any honest observer, upon moving her over to the right along the same plane as she is depicted in the photo, wouldn't ignore the fact that two things become very clear:
(1) she is nowhere near Mr. Frazier's position whatsoever
(2) There are at least two human figures that stand between her and Mr. Frazier.
Now, if you don't get the concept of the vertical difference between the total number of steps she still has to navigate from where she is positioned, then perhaps you will understand that those two people (a conservative count) standing between her and Mr. Frazier, even if they were built like Olive would still constitute a mass of at least a foot before she even could finally navigate the remaining three steps. Then she still has to transition past the pillar which is well forward of Mr. Frazier's position.
Yet when we slide her back over on the same plane, her head is already upon Mr. Oswald's mid-section, and I don't see two people, let alone one standing between her and Mr. Oswald, Do you, Mr. Doyle?
An objective Q & A relative to Prayer Man is just a click away -----> http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/prayer-man-faq no distortions, no distractions, no phantom handbags, girdles, lipstick, masquerading Prayer Man wannabe's with exotic buttons, etc
You're just re-entering rubbish again Alan and trying to hijack the credible conversation into your garbage bozo analysis.
If you look at white head lady she is one step above donned in black lady. It is plainly visible that she is not close enough to Prayer Man for Prayer Man to be on the first step down.
Since you refuse to answer plain reality and refuse to recognize the film clips that show Prayer Man clearly standing on the landing, as well as Fratini's proof that Prayer Man is on the landing, I cannot respond to any more of your posts since you are not a rational poster. This site used to have a higher level of rigor and did not allow such brazen trolling of seriously-presented fact. A serious researcher would see the references to the clips and Fratini and seek out if they had merit. Unserious posters would ignore them and enter garbage pseudo-analysis in order to confound the issue.
Drew backed-up what I had written about the true photogrammetry (the kind that requires a response instead of being ignored). A credible poster on this subject would realize that the maximum perspective differential, according to the trigonometry Drew spelled-out, would be .38 inches and not be enough to offset the clear 6-7 inch height difference seen in Darnell. Drew's math was ignored. As were my forensic locators that overcome David's vastly over-general (yet moderator-approved) photo science. Again, a more objective researcher would seek out Darnell's lens and reason how it applies instead of ignoring. It's pretty clear some egos just don't want to be wrong. They're hiding behind false reasoning in order to ignore what they know they can't answer. This is what the Warren Commission did.
There's a serious double standard and lack of credibility on this issue. Also an obvious ROKC proxy is being allowed to troll serious input.
On the contrary, Mr. Doyle, there you go again, huffing and puffing instead of honestly addressing how the woman on just the 4th step can have her head at Mr. Oswald's mid-section IF he was much further up and well into the shadows w/Mr. Frazier. Just because you wish to avoid the obvious doesn't make the photo by Mr. Darnell any less credible because it demonstrates a massive hole in your "points".
All any honest, objective person reading along here wants is a fair and reasonable explanation why her head is already upon Mr. Oswald's mid-section before she even completes her full ascent, with several more steps to navigate (not an opinion, the photo speaks for itself). Moreover, upon moving her over to the right along the same plane, one can clearly see there are human figures standing before her and Mr. Frazier's position. Conversely, Mr. Doyle, there are no human figures between her and Mr. Oswald. Again, not merely an opinion, the photo speaks for itself.
Now, once again, you brought measurements into this matter, so, a sense of fairness on your part would understand all measurements should be taken into consideration, not just the ones you imagine is your "proof".
The photo speaks for itself. The lady in question has her head upon Mr. Oswald's mid-section though she is only 50% of the way to the top of the landing, having several more stairs to navigate. Is she 7'4" tall, Mr. Doyle? Does she have an extensively loooong neck, Mr. Doyle?
Please help us understand how her head is already upon Mr. Oswald's mid-section though she is only halfway in her ascent; and, please explain why when we move her along the same plane across to align with Mr. Frazier's position that there at least two human figures standing before her and him?, yet not a singe human figure stands between her head and Mr. Oswald's mid-section in her original position...
The Warren Commission was quick to discount all of the available evidence, Mr. Doyle, let's not "Rush to Judgement" here, let's be fair and account for what the photo demonstrates.
