Drew Phipps Wrote:And yet, after all that, the stalwart defense of his buddy, defying the government authorities, testifying under oath 2 times, claiming he knows Oswald's being framed, and after 50 years of opportunities to come clean, Frazier still doesn't say, "Oswald was right there in the doorway with me." I wonder why that is.
There's a poster on MacRae's forum. I could dig later and find his name if you want, who said he's called Frazier within the last year and put it directly to him and Frazier said something like "No, Lee Oswald was definitely not on the steps with us during the assassination".
I think we know who is doing the speculation and conjecture here.
Technically correct - If PM was Oswald, he was on the landing, not the steps.
Shelley claims Viles was also on the steps when in reality he was across the street... How reliable are we expecting those involved in the FRAME-UP to be?
Speaking of Shelley - yes, slightly off topic - but if this image shows Shelley in New Orleans with Oswald, which I believe it does, what do you think about Shelley and his evidence now?
And even more interesting and related to this topic - Is that Michael walking by? I'm thinking probably not yet I have not done the work to find out where he was in July & August 1963.
Point being - the spider's web connects everything to everything else... the man worked at Bell Helicopter which in turn was purchased by Textron in 1960 with information provided by General Cabal, the brother of the Mayor of Dallas in 1963 - Earle Cabell
Cabell became Deputy Director of CIA under Allen Dulles. He was forced by President Kennedy to resign, on January 31, 1962, following the failure of the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Cabell's brother, Earle Cabell, was Mayor of Dallas when Kennedy visited that city and was assassinated, on November 22, 1963.
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
The other problem is this: The whole bag and curtain rods story was denied by Oswald. Therefore it had to originate with Frazier or his sister, or the police.
Second, how did the paper get from the TSBD to either Beckley or the Paine house? No one has ever been able to explain that. The testimony of Troy West is pretty solid here. He dispensed the wrapping tape. Never left his post, not even for lunch. Never saw Oswald approach him for tape.
The FBI tested the paper and found no lubricant on it. Even though the rifles were alleged soaked in cosmoline before their voyage over to America.
Something really smells about this story.
Excellent points all around, Mr. DiEugenio.
*Sidebar: @Mr. Josephs or anyone else familiar with Mr. Alyea's recollection of if he saw any evidence of a paper bag during the initial search (not the scripted versions, but actually doing the initial search during the immediate aftermath).
Did the emergence of the paper bag come about before Mr. Frazier was picked up by DPD detectives (Rose and Stovall), Or afterwards?
I'm just having a hard time thinking anyone could miss the large bag on public display by the DPD in front of the TSBD later that afternoon (hell, with all due respect, Grammy Award winning music artist Stevie Wonder couldn't have missed a bag that big). Yet, no one else save for the contingent on 5th Street in Irving managed to see it.
Something is certainly amiss here.
*Final thought this evening: We know Mr. Frazier gave the wrongfully accused rides to and from work on Friday's and Monday's. Do we know how the wrongfully accused got to work on Tuesday--Thursday?
I'm not suggesting I believe Shelly, but I think the Darnell film catches him elsewhere than on the steps/landing.
Oswald would certainly deny having a paper bag big enough to contain a gun in it, don't you think, true or not...
"All that is necessary for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing." (unknown)
James Tracy: "There is sometimes an undue amount of paranoia among some conspiracy researchers that can contribute to flawed observations and analysis."
Gary Cornwell (Dept. Chief Counsel HSCA): "A fact merely marks the point at which we have agreed to let investigation cease."
Alan Ford: "Just because you believe it, that doesn't make it so."
Jim DiEugenio Wrote:Yep, no conjecture and speculation at Duncan's right?
Funny, when I showed Wesley that photo he said it was too indefinite to see who the guy was.
See what happens when you spend a few weeks over at Duncan's.
This person had called Frazier recently and specifically asked him if Oswald was on the front steps during the assassination. Frazier said no way was he either on the steps or the landing. He was pretty definite about it.
The poster was Lee Kania. He said he conducted a phone interview with Frazier where Frazier made it clear he did not see Oswald anywhere in the portal.
I don't understand why you're so hostile to this Jim? A good researcher examines all evidence objectively. You seem to be interested in shutting down evidence by labeling it instead of objectively considering it.
I don't know Mr Kania but if his report is accurate it stands as better input than your brusque dismissals.
Drew Phipps Wrote:And yet, after all that, the stalwart defense of his buddy, defying the government authorities, testifying under oath 2 times, claiming he knows Oswald's being framed, and after 50 years of opportunities to come clean, Frazier still doesn't say, "Oswald was right there in the doorway with me." I wonder why that is.
There's a poster on MacRae's forum. I could dig later and find his name if you want, who said he's called Frazier within the last year and put it directly to him and Frazier said something like "No, Lee Oswald was definitely not on the steps with us during the assassination".
I think we know who is doing the speculation and conjecture here.
Technically correct - If PM was Oswald, he was on the landing, not the steps.
Shelley claims Viles was also on the steps when in reality he was across the street... How reliable are we expecting those involved in the FRAME-UP to be?
Speaking of Shelley - yes, slightly off topic - but if this image shows Shelley in New Orleans with Oswald, which I believe it does, what do you think about Shelley and his evidence now?
And even more interesting and related to this topic - Is that Michael walking by? I'm thinking probably not yet I have not done the work to find out where he was in July & August 1963.
Point being - the spider's web connects everything to everything else... the man worked at Bell Helicopter which in turn was purchased by Textron in 1960 with information provided by General Cabal, the brother of the Mayor of Dallas in 1963 - Earle Cabell
Cabell became Deputy Director of CIA under Allen Dulles. He was forced by President Kennedy to resign, on January 31, 1962, following the failure of the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Cabell's brother, Earle Cabell, was Mayor of Dallas when Kennedy visited that city and was assassinated, on November 22, 1963.
Alright, Mr. Josephs, it's obvious you can hit the long ball, how about a few bunts down the 3rd base line? Just kiddin', keep smashing them out of the park.
Sidebar: Did the Paines (Ruth & Michael) pretend to be "separated"?
What a clever cover to account for him being away from 5th Street in Irving. Doing what? With who? Where? and, Why?
The other problem is this: The whole bag and curtain rods story was denied by Oswald. Therefore it had to originate with Frazier or his sister, or the police.
Second, how did the paper get from the TSBD to either Beckley or the Paine house? No one has ever been able to explain that. The testimony of Troy West is pretty solid here. He dispensed the wrapping tape. Never left his post, not even for lunch. Never saw Oswald approach him for tape.
The FBI tested the paper and found no lubricant on it. Even though the rifles were alleged soaked in cosmoline before their voyage over to America.
Something really smells about this story.
Excellent points all around, Mr. DiEugenio.
*Sidebar: @Mr. Josephs or anyone else familiar with Mr. Alyea's recollection of if he saw any evidence of a paper bag during the initial search (not the scripted versions, but actually doing the initial search during the immediate aftermath).
Did the emergence of the paper bag come about before Mr. Frazier was picked up by DPD detectives (Rose and Stovall), Or afterwards?
I'm just having a hard time thinking anyone could miss the large bag on public display by the DPD in front of the TSBD later that afternoon (hell, with all due respect, Grammy Award winning music artist Stevie Wonder couldn't have missed a bag that big). Yet, no one else save for the contingent on 5th Street in Irving managed to see it.
Something is certainly amiss here.
*Final thought this evening: We know Mr. Frazier gave the wrongfully accused rides to and from work on Friday's and Monday's. Do we know how the wrongfully accused got to work on Tuesday--Thursday?
Jim would have to be correct unless Wesley stopped of in Oak Cliff which is not something he's ever said...
When investigating the McWatters bus ride we learn that even though his bus stops about 7 blocks from Oswald's room, the Beckley bus - which he would have taken home every day and back to work each morning since there was a bus stop virtually outside his room and takes him to Elm and Houston
Mr. BALL - All right, now that is bus stop for Beckley bus. Mr. McWATTERS - That is bus stop for Beckley bus. Mr. BALL - Northeast corner Houston and Elm. Mr. McWATTERS - Northeast corner of Houston and Elm. Mr. BALL - The Beckley bus goes on across directly in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building? Mr. McWATTERS - That is correct.
From what I can tell, there was no investigation into the busline, bus driver or other passengers on the Beckley line but they do mention where a transfer could be used... the trip from TSBD to Beckley did not require a transfer.
We are to remember that if a passenger uses a transfer, he gives it up. The other thing to remember is Oswald changed his clothes before he went to the Theater. The bus transfer in that shirt's pocket, unused, would have to be moved to the new shirt and not discovered until 4:00, 2 hours after his arrest.
Ok Alan - go get 'em. Maybe you can find something to corroborate his taking this bus to and from work from Monday eve thru Friday morn...
DJ
Seems there were a few routes he could have taken
Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
But Larry Herrera says he found a witness who says that Frazier brought Oswald to work each day.
Certainly a safe assumption, Mr. DiEugenio, considering the wrongfully accused did not drive.
In respect to the bus pass in "evidence", I'm not sure if you are exercising the winsome wit of James Bond, or are being serious?, but--as they say way down in Texas, that dog (bus pass "evidence") don't hunt. The full-fledged, knock down drag out fighting scene at the Texas Theatre wouldn't have left such "evidence" so pristine as exhibited.
Any chance sir, you have a link towards Mr. Herrera's website? Have to wonder if the witness he mentions was living in or near the rooming house on Beckley, or his witness is a TSBD fellow employee. Did he share any specifics of that nature one way or the other, Mr. DiEugenio?
IMHO, IF the wrongfully accused had actually taken buses to and from work on all of those Tuesdays--Thursdays, it would have come out in the previous testimonies taken from the individuals weighing in on his most famous ride of all (11/22/63). Funny how no one has ever mentioned as a claim to fame they actually rode on the same bus for weeks on end w/him.
hopefully, Mr. Herrara can share his findings with the research community if he hasn't already.
