Here's What Could Happen If Donald Trump Doesn't Accept The Election Results
This is scary stuff.
11/07/2016 12:32 pm ET|Updated19 hours ago
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[/URL]Julia CravenReporter, The Huffington Post
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WASHINGTON ― Samuel J. Tilden had a problem.
It was 1876, and the Democratic presidential nominee was one vote shy of the 185 Electoral College votes needed to secure the nation's highest office. Tilden had swept the popular vote, winning 247,448 more ballots than his opponent Rutherford B. Hayes ― who also lagged behind in Electoral College votes, with 165.
But 20 votes had not been counted: one from Oregon, four from Florida, eight from Louisiana and seven from South Carolina. Democratic candidates had used fraud and violence to sweep the state-level elections in the South. But since Republicans still maintained control of the state electoral boards, they could throw out votes in order to secure Hayes a win. On March 5, 1877, an Electoral Commission established by Congress confirmed Hayes would be America's 19th president.
During this political upheaval, there were talks of civil unrest, and fears of a second Civil War or the election being rigged to favor a candidate who better served the interests of the party in power. But Tilden, who had pretty good reason to think he was cheated, did not question the legitimacy of the results and conceded the election.
Current Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump may not be as gracious.
MOLLY RILEY via Getty Images
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump addresses a campaign rally in Leesburg, Virginia. During the final presidential debate, Trump refused to say he would accept the election results in the contestagainst Hillary Clinton. In fact, as his chances of winning have dropped, his claims that the election is rigged against him have increased. (And, unlike Tilden, Trump doesn't have a case.)
Fifty-six percent of Americans think Trump should concede if he loses on Tuesday, and 31 percent of those who believe he should concede think it would be a major threat to U.S. democracy if he doesn't, according to a HuffPost/YouGov poll conducted this month.
Along party lines, the divide gets more stark. Only 48 percent of Republicans think Trump should concede if Clinton is declared the winner, compared to 77 percent of Democrats, based on the HuffPost/YouGov poll. Eighty-six percent of Republicans surveyed believe Clinton should concede versus 67 percent of Democrats.
Some political reporters and experts have argued that it doesn't matter whether Trump accepts the election outcome. To some extent, they're right: If Trump loses, he'll have few legal recourses to contest the result.
But what if Trump doesn't concede?
"Ever since Thomas Jefferson effected the first change in party power in 1800, our democracy has depended upon the peaceful transfer of power and the idea ofan opposition but a loyal opposition," Allan Lichtman, a political historian at American University, told The Huffington Post. "Is Trump going to change 200 years of American history?"
No one knows. But Trump refusing to concede would flip the bird to a long American tradition of accepting a loss in a presidential election. And refusing to bow out peacefully could have real-life consequences.
Here are a few:
Mark Makela / Reuters
Supporters cheer for Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump during a rally at Atlantic Aviation in Moon, Pennsylvania.Undermining The Next President
Many of Trump's supporters think the election is rigged. Nearly half do not believe their votes will be counted, according to a Politico/Morning Consult poll. This could make it difficult or impossible for Clinton to govern, Lichtman said.
"If people don't accept the legitimacy of the president, that could spread to lawmakers," he said. Trump's lack of willingness to concede could make it more difficult for Republicans in Congress to compromise as well as harder for the sitting president to muster public support for any issue she wants to pursue.
But Republicans in Congress are already reluctant to compromise with the current Democratic president. One reason is because of the birther movement, a racist crusade led by Trump in an attempt to delegitimize President Barack Obama's place in the White House. And, in January, at least 53 percent of Republicans still questioned whether Obama is American.
Jonathan Drake / Reuters
A black demonstrator raises her fist in protest against U.S. Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump as police officers approach to remove her from a campaign rally in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in March. Undermining Democracy
There's also a threat that Trump refusing to concede could undermine democracy itself.
It sounds extreme. But peaceful transfers of power have kept America a stable democracy for centuries. If that tradition ends, it could shake the belief that democracy is effective and cause voters to become more apathetic or adopt a more extreme political ideology.
Voters should think about how elections work in developing countries, argued Mark Tessler, a political science professor at the University of Michigan. In 2007, he notes, an unclear election result in Kenya triggered violence that killed more than 1,300 people and displaced 600,000 more.
"If people think elections are unfair or rigged or fraudulent in some important way, this has an important impact on their basic commitment to democracy," he said.
Dissenters are often people who had economic or political grievances before the election and are looking for a solution. "The election," Tessler said, "is kind of a sign that nothing is going to change."
Many of Trump's supporters fit this bill ― they think they don't have a say in the political system and that it operates against them.
"Some of the people who are gravitating ... to Trump are people who feel, rightly or wrongly, that the system doesn't care about them," Tessler said. "Belief that the election is rigged may be a confirmation of that in their minds."
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Quote:What riveted viewers most was Dayan's own dramatic ending. Filmed against the backdrop of the Prime Minister's Office, Dayan read out Netanyahu's own rejection of her story, in a six-minute long segment.The following is a translation of the text of Netanyahu's response:
What riveted viewers most was Dayan's own dramatic ending. Filmed against the backdrop of the Prime Minister's Office, Dayan read out Netanyahu's own rejection of her story, in a six-minute long segment.
The following is a translation of the text of Netanyahu's response:
"It would be interesting to see whether Ilana Dayan, who portrays herself as a knight of freedom of expression, will publish our response in full, uncensored.
"The time has come to unmask Ilana Dayan, who has proven once again that she has not even a drop of professional integrity. Ilana Dayan is one of the leaders of a concerted frenzy against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, aimed at toppling the right-wing government and lead to the establishment of a left-wing government.
"Dayan does not hide her intentions. Just two weeks ago, she declared war on the prime minister at a gathering for the public broadcasting corporation, where she said 'we must conduct this struggle like we've never done before.' She spoke and now she acts. Her show this evening was nothing but a political broadcast against the prime minister and his wife, all of it a recycling of warped gossip and vicious lies.
"Dayan's hatred of the prime minister is known, as is her opinion of his voters. When she interviewed the president of the United States, Barack Obama, she said: 'Most of the public in Israel voted for Netanyahu that is part of the problem!' In other words, Ilana Dayan has a problem not only with Prime Minister Netanyahu, but with the people as well…
"In the guise of a 'journalist' Dayan is mainly a cover for political propaganda. In an interview with Ari Shavit for Haaretz in 2010, Dayan said of Ehud Olmert, while he was suspected of serious corruption: 'Maybe we lost a great prime minister… that's a reasonable option for forgiving corruption… the question of shielding him is, in my eyes, a complex question..
"It isn't so complex: With Dayan, a prime minister from the right receives continuous vilification as we see again with this present propaganda broadcast, and a prime minister of the left receives a full shield. In 2012, Dayan once again came to Olmert's defense. While corruption cases against him were going on, Dayan granted him a glowing interview. Ometz, the citizens' movement for clean governance, was astounded, and described the interview as a 'broadcast in Ehud Olmert's service.'
"Ilana Dayan is member of the extreme left. She treats Jewish settlement in Judea and Samaria as 'land theft.' In the extreme Haaretz newspaper she finds a 'great source of solace' and 'sanity.'
"Also here, Dayan says and then does. She participated in fundraising events of 'The New (Israel) Fund' and in 2008 even received a special 'commendation' from the anti-Zionist fund. She donated the prize to the extreme-left NGO Itach Female lawyers for social justice, an NGO which has libeled IDF soldiers in front of the Goldstone Commission.
"Ilana Dayan is no stranger to persecuting soldiers. In 2004 she libeled a combat officer, Captain R., reporting that he executed a Palestinian girl. Captain R. was fully exonerated by a military court. The District Court ruled that Dayan's report was a 'perversion of the truth' and the Supreme Court confirmed that there was slander in the report.
"Recently Dayan had a flattering interview with Abu Mazen [PA President Mahmoud Abbas]. Instead of challenging him over his inciting and shocking statement that 'I bless every drop of blood that is shed in Jerusalem,' she chose to prostrate herself in front of him on the issue of Elor Azaria, while the soldier's case is still ongoing, and he has the presumption of innocence. Dayan said to Abu Mazen 'I felt ashamed when I saw that video, I was shocked and disturbed … I was even more ashamed when I read the polls and saw that so many Israeli support this soldier." Again we see that Ilana Dayan has a problem with the nation.
"After Dayan broadcast a single (!) time a show on the damage caused by extreme-left NGOs, based on an investigation of the Ad Kan organization, she was quick to apologize and defend the extreme left: 'these people do holy work … we should have given more emphasis to what the human rights organizations do, especially for the Palestinians of the southern Hebron region, which is what Ezra Nawi devoted his life to.'
"Ezra Nawi, whom Dayan is extolling, is the one who boasted of turning in Palestinians to the Palestinian Authority for imprisonment and in some cases even death when their sole 'sin' was selling land to Jews. By the way, Dayan did not broadcast the second part of the Ad Kan investigation on extreme-left NGOs.
"The general public has long ago lost trust in the main media organizations which know no limits in their propaganda against the prime minister and the Likud government. Dayan's show this evening proved that the public is right. No wonder that many good people refused to be interviewed by her. They know the game is rigged, and that in the best case, they will serve as fig leaves for a show whose sole intention is smearing and character assassination.
"This evening Dayan chose once again to vilify Sara Netanyahu, who in an unprecedented manner has chosen to continue, as the prime minister's wife, with her normal job as a child psychologist in public service, and in addition works tirelessly on behalf of Holocaust survivors, soldiers without family, abused women, children with cancer and bereaved families and victims of terror attacks. Of course, none of this will ever be the subject of a special show by Dayan, who sinks to the depths in order to try to harm the prime minister by attacking his family members.
"Dayan's show this evening demonstrates perfectly why the media industry needs to undergo reform. The prime minister is determined to open the market up to competition which will add a variety of more opinions, as well as an efficient national broadcaster. He will do this even if Ilana Dayan continues her propaganda broadcasts against him twice a week."
Just wanted to give this a bump because Felix Sater and Bayrock are finally getting mainstream news attention due to their connection to this Russian lawyer that Trump Jr. met with.
The Slate piece even mentions that Sater worked as a CIA informant trafficking Stingers to Al-Qaeda. Hopefully someone will keep digging, because there's a lot more there. I wish they'd include the clip of Trump walking out of an interview at the mere mention of Sater.
I know it is futile, but I went up against this nonsensical BS, anyway.
Quote:May 17, 2017
Globalists show their fear with all out Trump Bashing
........
Chelsea, Bill, and Hillary Clinton have looted Haiti after the most recent disaster there. Why not go after the real criminals? I assume Trump may have done nothing wrong. Those who profit from globalism, corporation creeping on humanity, big banker tyranny, wars without end, the loss of sovereignty, enslavement of the average person, strife, conflict, racism, and apathy all run the mainstream media at our expense.
I don't believe in much. I believe Trump cares about his legacy first. He chose to take on the role as US President. He legitimately won the job. So, he will give it is all for his legacy. That is why I'll have Trump's back 100% and believe he's the real deal......
My comment, awaiting moderation :
Quote:There was a time when you seemed facts oriented/influenced. http://starkravingviking.blogspot.com/20...on-to.html Are you out of your mind? Do you care about whether the country maintains close to present capability to provide a safety net for an aging population or even exhibits the will to do it. You have brushed aside a pattern of deception of the one presiding over his Goldman Sachs cabinet, and despite the hypocrisy of those appointments, consider the incompetence of Betsey Devoss, Ben Carson, Rick Perry, the anti environment EPA director and Don Jr's hunting buddy at Dept. of Imterior, and Christian mullah Pence, to name just a few. Back to Manafort, a great American only recently registered as a foreign agent. The situation is the opposite of your claim; indeed the corporate news media has been far too superficial and favorable in their coverage.
Post proof of Hillary looting Haiti, and her motive, you theory or evidence of her personal gain? List any evidence of Trump's actual charitable giving of his own money, vs. his many claims. His son Eric was unable to provide any evidence although he promised a Washington Post investigative reporter that he would. What ethical or even superficially sincere candidate would hire Paul Manafort, just as one example. These links support your old blog post I linked to above.:
The phrasing of your nearly unquestioning support for Trump is something that should embarrass you. What kind of people change the name of their mother's family, as Manafort's father and siblings did? I expect it is people with something to hide. The Trump employee and Trump Tower tenant Manafort is the grandson of Salvatore and https://findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?pa...d=54827016 He entered the U.S as Cefalu in 1911, and there is this, matching the spelling in his naturalization application...
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/106327845/ New Britain, Conn., July 6. (U.P.) Mr. and Mrs. Salvatore Cefalu were married 27 years ago. But Cefalu couldn't prove it when he sought citizenship papers.
Couple Wed 27 Years, Lack Proof, Remarry NEW BRITAIN, Conn., (U.R) Mr. and Mrs. Salvatore .Cefalu were married 27 years ago. But Cefalu couldn't prove it -when he sought citizenship papers. The justice of peace who performed the ...
Peter Janney's uncle was Frank Pace, chairman of General Dynamics who enlisted law partners Roswell Gilpatric and Luce's brother-in-law, Maurice "Tex" Moore, in a trade of 16 percent of Gen. Dyn. stock in exchange for Henry Crown and his Material Service Corp. of Chicago, headed by Byfield's Sherman Hotel group's Pat Hoy. The Crown family and partner Conrad Hilton next benefitted from TFX, at the time, the most costly military contract award in the history of the world. Obama was sponsored by the Crowns and Pritzkers. So was Albert Jenner Peter Janney has preferred to write of an imaginary CIA assassination of his surrogate mother, Mary Meyer, but not a word about his Uncle Frank.
The nomination of Donald Trump as the Republican standardbearer has sent our managerial elite into overdrive to stop the emergence of a politics outside of their paradigms. That's why these appeals to Russian influence are so telling. It's an attempt to regain control of the narrative, to be able to turn the tables on Trump supporters. To say, "we're the real patriots" not like you Ruskie influenced rubes from the heartland.
Donald Trump operates outside the boundaries of normal adult behavior.
A hyper-narcissist with a molecule-thin skin and the attention span of 5 year old, he isn't concerned with winning so much making making his opponents lose.
He's still bragging about winning over Cruz, Bush and Co.
The aching maw of his soul-less existence constantly seeks flattery.
Yeah, let's have a new form of government ruled with an iron fist by the Big Orange Shit-bag....unh-hunh...thanx...
A trip down memory lane....
<sigh>Meanwhile, Trump sent his loyal Federal troops to dominate the streets of Portland a few days ago...just say'n...
(28-07-2016, 09:38 PM)Cliff Varnell Wrote: I should do this in Trump Orange but I'll stick to red.
Paul Rigby Wrote:
Cliff Varnell Wrote:Any British fingerprints on Libya?
To my regret, I retired from oversight of British foreign policy some years ago, but I will make overtures to the people who currently do, and register my objection.
Just curious. I seem to recall Libya as a NATO operation...lots of blame to go around, no?
Even though it's doubtless already filed away somewhere within the Orangeman's record of my hugely influential personal opinions.
Cliff Varnell Wrote:Lemme get this straight.
There is, I suppose, a first time for everything...
Well then, you're present for a milestone!
Cliff Varnell Wrote:The Clintons are corrupt therefore a woman's reproductive organs are property of the State?
The Clintons are corrupt therefore 20 million people have to lose their health insurance?
Trump and the GOP have called for a repeal of the Affordable Care Act to be replaced by...nothing.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore 12 million undocumented immigrants have to be rounded up and deported en masse?
It was Trump's first position the day he announced.
You didn't hear?
It was in all the papers, Paul...
The Clintons are corrupt therefore anyone of the Muslim faith is regarded with suspicion, or banned from the country out-right? Trump has repeatedly called for a ban on Muslim immigration and surveillance of American mosques.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore AR-15s with 100 round clips should continue to be available?
The usual National Rifle Association view, which Trump repeatedly endorsed.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore there should be no Federal minimum wage?
Trump was against a Fed minimum wage before he was for one.
Who knows where he'll go next on the issue.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore Social Security should be privatized? Trump was against privatizing Social Security before he came out and endorsed Paul Ryan's "granny-killer" budget.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore students and the elderly poor who don't have a driver's license shouldn't be allowed to vote?
Millions of people have been denied the right to vote by Republican voter suppression laws.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore gay kids have to undergo "conversion therapy"?
It's right there in the 2016 Republican platform.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore the #1 "public health crisis" is on-line pornography not heroin addiction, gun violence nor lead in drinking water?
It's right there in the 2016 Republican platform.
The Clintons are corrupt therefore there should be no separation of Church and State?
Trump just a few days ago said that Churches should be able to keep their tax-exempt status while engaging in partisan politics.
If ya'all want to live in a Christian Theocracy knock yourselves out.
Jesus-shouters please take a flying fuck.
I'd rather deal with the Globalists.
What a lot of hyperbolic balls.
Really?
That's the GOP/Trump playbook, Paul.
Take them one at a time...
One example:
Only one?
How instructive.
Quote:Shortly after offending all of the foreign policy elites in both parties with his remarks on Russia, Trump broke with Republican orthodoxy again by announcing that he would support a $10 an hour minimum wage.
That's Trump's third position on the issue.
He takes pretty much every side of every issue eventually.
Mike Pence, who opposing any minimum wage, must be having a hard time keeping up with the new talking points.
Trump changes his positions constantly.
The GOP will shove its agenda down his throat and he'll thank them and ask for more.
The liberals, of course, reflexively denounced Trump's plan as "incoherent." But it is one more sign that Trump is trying to outflank Hilary on a range of issues. Fortunately for him, he doesn't have to veer his Rolls that far to get to the left of Clinton.
And when he gets bored or forgetful about his positions he'll come up with new ones.
JULY 28, 2016
Night of the Hollow Men: Notes From the Democratic Convention
by JEFFREY ST. CLAIR
19-07-2020, 02:31 PM (This post was last modified: 19-07-2020, 02:42 PM by Cliff Varnell.)
(30-07-2016, 08:52 PM)Paul Rigby Wrote:
Cliff Varnell Wrote:What we'd be getting with Trump is 100 times worse.
I have to say, Cliff, I've enjoyed hugely your portrait of America under the Trumper. It's Hieronymous Bosch as reimagined by Sids Snot and/or Viscious, all under the influence of steaming vats of super-heated glue and all the better for it.
According to this luridly dystopian vision, Christian Gauleiters, festooned in neo-Nazi regalia and Averell Harriman badges, bestride by torch light a land beset by famine and pestilence, zealously liquidating grandmothers, abortionists, advocates of socialized medicine, computer geeks, liberals, onanists, liberal onanists, librarians, foreigners (particularly if dusky or swarthy) , pornographers, welfare recipients, anyone with an IQ in three figures, and, presumably, small, cuddly animals.
Rotting corpses of social workers and captured illegals dangle on high, swaying from manacles affixed to vast, pointless walls extending as far as the human eye can see. Headless lesbians litter the smoking ground, through which march zombie chain-gangs of weeping homosexualists forcibly "straightened" with the aid of the First Church of Ben the Snake Handler, pharmaceuticals and lavish doses of electricity. And this is only New York. Out in the mid-West, of course, it's really, really bad.
You must work this up into some sort of script: Rodham's speeches are as dull as dishwater.
Paul, your version of my "luridly dystopian vision" is more spot on than my own.
Give Trump a second term and he'll make you look like Nostradamus.
This line is eerily prescient: "Christian Gauleiters, festooned in neo-Nazi regalia...bestride by torch light a land beset by famine and pestilence"
Cliff Varnell Wrote:What we'd be getting with Trump is 100 times worse.
I have to say, Cliff, I've enjoyed hugely your portrait of America under the Trumper. It's Hieronymous Bosch as reimagined by Sids Snot and/or Viscious, all under the influence of steaming vats of super-heated glue and all the better for it.
According to this luridly dystopian vision, Christian Gauleiters, festooned in neo-Nazi regalia and Averell Harriman badges, bestride by torch light a land beset by famine and pestilence, zealously liquidating grandmothers, abortionists, advocates of socialized medicine, computer geeks, liberals, onanists, liberal onanists, librarians, foreigners (particularly if dusky or swarthy) , pornographers, welfare recipients, anyone with an IQ in three figures, and, presumably, small, cuddly animals.
Rotting corpses of social workers and captured illegals dangle on high, swaying from manacles affixed to vast, pointless walls extending as far as the human eye can see. Headless lesbians litter the smoking ground, through which march zombie chain-gangs of weeping homosexualists forcibly "straightened" with the aid of the First Church of Ben the Snake Handler, pharmaceuticals and lavish doses of electricity. And this is only New York. Out in the mid-West, of course, it's really, really bad.
You must work this up into some sort of script: Rodham's speeches are as dull as dishwater.
Paul, your version of my "luridly dystopian vision" is more spot on than my own.
Give Trump a second term and he'll make you look like Nostradamus.
This line is eerily prescient: "Christian Gauleiters, festooned in neo-Nazi regalia...bestride by torch light a land beset by famine and pestilence"
Wait. If Trump is not elected, whatever that means, it will be just as bad if not worse. I suspect it will be another version of "stabbed in the back."
"We'll know our disinformation campaign is complete when everything the American public believes is false." --William J. Casey, D.C.I
"We will lead every revolution against us." --Theodore Herzl
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kbGSBZki05knumBWWkjJDh0k9aGvb12JZvxwxknd2fGj82cEW6QPAxmnkOSEsZKJ2kwghCLpA06SJ9pL8MlAHSXzIkXVpJHSO/IPNinLT4BTvZDmSIgXuaCATLvLSvySkM9apbTS6JYv4zF6fHMG2xmD%20w/xOjraHv0meiVoLGOCABbowayM3OfGY8bySQEXq1mUlkQ5R3j/FOnRKCOSgxcMFtJ73WTOTRlJuj4LGVw5w7RAdB7DUOyApcpFebiUA6cWvEPJYyzcnPjMbYbN5aEL3WzAQyjP%20lUBhiETdxM4WhKmGEWMpPGXT%20U2MRyozicRCD9VozE8g4HmIxD3IBuyYkMMAxXMP9PMais45kK2URj/IgX2aOOz41RuGwUUBe8%20pZt94HMpEbeXfF49SYwms4m0u5joX8O9dwIWcxSBcdAYMkbDVrJYheaaYCaUsjf53HbwwaZG3HQL3SNPYCaYFjxgBZ7LWFUhoTiDxtCI%20vMFZ7S2M/kFaGnHO71mvLpDSmEHnEiEnuV2tPaZwB0tT1E99DWKP9pHEKSCJudTmQYnTWftI4R6Shyw%20Enqt9pHGWyCAUuZbHv5CsPaRxFkgt3ONSHieQqf2jcZ5IC5duJTdN%200bjDiK9sc11PJ5BHe0ZjVuIXIcjruLxhnfOI9R4g0i%20i5bhbkZP7RGN24g87BIeuzBce0PjRiLzXbE5w7XaExq3EpnnOA%20duatxNZHZKHaMx27kJSR4bQd3jdeI3Ir9jvDYhF7KQ2MCkRwHtgVahlStvMYUIp3xVxtx7MUvcYFW3Tv5P4A3XVN%20RPtCAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC)
![[Image: 582095c41600002f002c8d30.jpeg?cache=ci1gdmi9hv]](http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/582095c41600002f002c8d30.jpeg?cache=ci1gdmi9hv)
MOLLY RILEY via Getty Images![[Image: 58209781150000b7005321d9.jpeg]](http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/58209781150000b7005321d9.jpeg)
Mark Makela / Reuters![[Image: 582098d1150000b7005321e5.jpeg]](http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/582098d1150000b7005321e5.jpeg)
Jonathan Ernst / Reuters![[Image: 5820983e190000a304c3151d.jpeg]](http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/5820983e190000a304c3151d.jpeg)
Jonathan Drake / Reuters