The Lunch Room Encounter

[Brian Doyle]

In the past decade Greg Parker-associated researchers have succeeded in advancing the idea that the Lunch Room Encounter never happened and was designed to lead the public away from Oswald being on the front steps during the shooting...I was surprised to see well-known conspiracy authors and sources promote this claim and do so on the basis of the Parker/Kamp evidence...


In 2018 I interviewed Sarah Stanton's grand daughter Wanda in order to get information on Sarah that would help prove the Prayer Man evidence...It was during the preliminary phone call to that interview that Wanda told me the unexpected bonus that Sarah heard Oswald say he wasn't going out to watch the motorcade but intended to go back in to the "Break Room" instead...Sarah had encountered Oswald hiding out on the 2nd Floor staircase landing on her way out to watch the motorcade...Wanda told me Sarah thought Oswald was a loner who was going to miss the president so she asked him if he wanted to go downstairs with her to go watch the motorcade...In that preliminary phone call Wanda said "The way I remember it was Oswald said he was not going out to watch the motorcade but intended to go back in to the 'Break Room' instead"...That "Break Room" was obviously the 2nd Floor Lunch Room adjacent to the staircase landing where Carolyn Arnold would see Oswald alone eating his lunch moments later...This evidence is huge and finally corroborates Carolyn Arnold...What was the research community's reaction to it?...They ignored it...Only Richard Gilbride gave it mention in his book 'JFK Inside Job' and Vince Palamara also gave it a full page in his latest 'JFK Honest Answers'...But that was it and it is like I never even made the discovery with the main Greg Parker-befriending researchers who dominate the JFK internet...The most important evidence discovery in 45 years went ignored...


The conclusions from here are easy...For those who have researched the assassination deeply it is quite apparent that Oswald was assigned the 2nd Floor Lunch Room to keep him from being seen on the 1st Floor where he would have been arrested, or would have been exonerated from being on the 6th Floor shooting Kennedy...Oswald was also being kept from the 6th Floor where he might realize what was going on and try to stop it...It is quite clear by now, and especially with this important new discovery, that Oswald was ordered to be in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room where he would be out of the way in order to be framed...There were 3 wild cards, however, that the plotters didn't plan on...The first was Sarah Stanton who heard Oswald say he intended to go back in to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...The second was Carolyn Arnold, whose pregnancy caused her to unexpectedly poke in to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room at 12:25, and the third was Marrion Baker whose seeing pigeons fly off the roof of the Depository caused him to get in there fast...As far as the Lunch Room Encounter Baker is the one who counts the most...


The reason why Roy Truly tracked and followed Baker in to the Depository is because he knew he had to control any authorities who might intrude on the set-up...Truly wasn't guiding Baker as much as controlling him so his taking Baker to the NW elevators was more of a run around than anything else...The fates had conspired to foil the plan of concealing Oswald in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room and done so poetically and by pure chance...


As it turns out, the carnage witnessed by Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles caused the girls to get an adrenaline rush that made them bolt from the windows and down the stairs...Mrs Garner said the girls were already gone by the time she turned to talk to them...The commotion the girls made as they bolted down the stairs caused Oswald to get up from the seat Carolyn Arnold saw him in and walk over to the Lunch Room vestibule window and look out at the staircase to see who else might be running down the stairs...Oswald was assigned to the 2nd Floor Lunch Room so he went as far as the vestibule window where he would not break his orders...And it was in that same vestibule door window that Oswald was standing when he unexpectedly saw a cop arrive on the staircase landing...Not expecting the worst witness he could have feared in the form of a cop, Oswald flinched back from the vestibule window and retreated in to the Lunch Room...Baker saw that guilty flinching and his cop instincts immediately pursued Oswald in to the Lunch Room...


If you are a skilled researcher you'll notice that Baker was very fuzzy in his Commission testimony when he described exactly how he detected Oswald in that door window:


    Mr. BAKER. As I came out to the second floor (there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this-1 happened to see him through this window in this door. I don’t know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there. Mr. DULLES. Where was he coming from, do you know? Mr. BAKEB. No, sir. All I seen of him was a glimpse of him go away from me. Mr. BELIN. What did you do then? Mr. BAKER. I ran on over there...



Baker is lying here...That's why he's having trouble forming the words...He knows damned-well that he saw Oswald slack-jawed, flat-footed, and stationary in that vestibule window staring back at him and when Oswald saw a cop he flinched back and went in to the Lunch Room...Baker knows he can't say it directly because if Oswald was standing there looking out at the staircase that means he didn't just run down from the 6th Floor...Baker was a wild card they didn't expect and he witnessed something that was damning to the conspiracy...Truly's attempt to lead Baker past Oswald and up the stairs didn't work...Truly would never be able to admit he saw Oswald in that window when he ran by just ahead of Baker...Baker and Truly also saw Oswald's lunch on the table - which evidenced the fact he had been in there the whole time eating lunch just like he told Stanton...In his recent book Buell Frazier admitted that a fellow employee told him a partly-eaten cheese sandwich and apple were seen on that table after the assassination...The un-named employee who told him that was probably Truly...There's no way Baker & Truly missed that lunch on the table...All this confirms the scenario above and reinforces it with a causal dimension...Carolyn Arnold said Oswald was eating his lunch...Oswald heard Adams & Styles clatter by and got up to go watch the staircase...It's the only way it can be according to the evidence...It also explains why Mrs Garner never saw or heard Oswald running past her on the 4th Floor staircase landing...Oswald was in the Lunch Room from when Carolyn Arnold saw him to when Truly & Baker saw him in that same place 6 minutes later...


Further reinforcing this is the fact FBI lied, like they did with Carolyn Arnold, and had Stanton saying she never saw Oswald that day...Wanda told me that Sarah kept repeating the story of seeing Oswald outside the 2nd Floor Lunch Room to relatives at family gatherings...No doubt Sarah was perplexed that her story never appeared anywhere...If you are an advanced researcher you'll understand that this now puts new light on Mrs Reid who was most-likely an Intel operative whose assignment was to clear the 2nd Floor Lunch Room for Oswald by ginning-up the ladies with progress reports of the motorcade...Oswald was aware of this which is why he was hiding-out on the staircase landing where Stanton unexpectedly encountered him...A true coordinated CIA black operation comes in to focus and starts to gel...    


In any case it is time the conspiracy research community tighten up its act and stop making itself receptive to Greg Parker's disinformation...A decade of wild goose-chasing fanciful theories for clicks has done enough damage for one lifetime...These puzzle pieces are seriously valid and advance the best evidence to a plausible putting of the final puzzle together...Like Gilbride said, it is time to stop basing research on social media friendships and recognize the best and brightest...Anything less is demeaning to the cause...

[Richard Gilbride]

It has been very obvious for a long time that the lunchroom encounter actually happened-  meaning that the lunchroom hoax hypothesis is 1st-order malarkey.

Baker recognized Oswald later that afternoon in the interrogation room in the DPD Homicide Office. And he told this to Detective Marvin Johnson when he handed him his affidavit, and Johnson mentioned that in his own detective's report submitted to Chief Curry.

Oswald himself, approximately an hour earlier, told Captain Fritz he had encountered an officer in the 2nd-floor lunchroom, and so Fritz recorded in his notes that "claims 2nd floor coke when off came in".

On top of that, we have auxiliary witness sightings, just before the encounter, by Carolyn Arnold, Sarah Stanton and Jack Dougherty. And Wesley Frazier's mention of a half-eaten cheese sandwich seen on a lunchroom table from a radio interview (it's not in his book).

Because this was the first post-assassination sighting of the accused assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, it was one of the most reported and overreported aspects of November 22, 1963-  on that day and for years to come. And a lot of mistakes got made in the recounting of that incident. Yet every single item of lunchroom-related evidence has a rational, prosaic explanation that supports the incident's reality. Everyday common sense gives us an explanation that may not have been apparent at first glance- and most of the ambiguity tied to this incident arose due to the mistakes of second-hand information. 

Unprecedented obstinacy has produced a Tower of Babel within the research community, based upon an error-riddled understanding of the error-riddled evidence pertaining to the lunchroom. It was not built upon a foundation of Reason and Sober Judgment.

The hoaxers' last gasp, that Hosty's notes, scribbled on the back of one of his reports: "He went to the 2nd floor to get coca cola to eat with lunch and returned to 1st floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch P parade" are not substantive- there's nothing there that you can build a firm argument on. Fritz and Bookhout reported the sequence of Oswald's movements slightly differently. 

If, and only if, Oswald is identified as Prayerman, there might be something to Hosty's (belatedly-discovered) notes. But simple physics 100% debunks the notion that Oswald is PrayerMan. So Hosty's notes are not gospel. And if you don't like physics, take a trip to the Sixth Floor Museum and have a look at the digital scan of the Darnell film. (I personally haven't seen this). There hasn't been a single report that the PrayerMan enhancement looks anything like Oswald.

This entire thing (lunchroom-hoax and PrayerMan) could get turned around if Jim DiEugenio and Larry Hancock stepped up to the plate. Thus far they have given a very poor accounting of themselves, as regards their ability to discern truth from fiction. They seem more concerned with their ego-  "How is this going to reflect on me?" than in bringing answers that will sustain to the American public. 

And I have some bad news for them. Truth is invulnerable. They won't win the praise from a future generation if they fail to step up to the plate.

[Brian Doyle]

The key to all this, Mr Gilbride, is seen in Captain Fritz's Warren Commission testimony...Captain Fritz was an old school southern sheriff who didn't like being ordered to lie by Yankee federals...When Commission lawyer Ball asked Fritz where Oswald said he was during the assassination Fritz didn't hesitate...He immediately responded that Oswald said he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room eating his lunch...Ball was shocked and immediately went in to damage control...Ball responded "Look at 136B"...Ball was suborning perjury and leading the witness back to the officially scripted story...Fritz doubled down by telling Ball that Oswald even confirmed it when he added that although he usually worked on the 1st Floor he was on the 2nd Floor that day...The reason why Ball limited it to just "Look at 136B" is because he didn't want to make it too obvious he was flagrantly guiding Fritz back to the official story...As conspiracy researchers and analysts we are supposed to look for clues like this, not bury them:



Mr Ball:  With reference to where he was at the time the president was shot, did he tell you what floor of the building he was on?

Captain Fritz:  I feel sure that he told me he was on the 2nd floor.

Mr Ball:  Look at 136B,

Captain Fritz:  All right sir.

Mr Ball:  Second paragraph down. 136B.

Captain Fritz:  Yes, sir; second floor, yes sir. He said he usually worked on the 1st floor. I asked him what part of the building when the president was shot. He said he was having lunch at about this time on the 1st floor.


A proper, non-Prayer Man analysis of this statement will yield that Fritz told Ball to his face that Oswald told him he was eating lunch in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...If you pay careful attention Fritz reiterated by adding that Oswald even told him that although he usually worked on the 1st Floor he was on the 2nd Floor that day...If you are a credible, skilled researcher and not a Prayer Man advocate you will detect that Fritz admitted the truth here in his own way and got it across...He knew he wasn't going to get away with it so he reverted back to the 1st floor like Ball was trying to force him...But not before the damage was done...I assure you as a researcher who has intensely studied the assassination that this is the correct interpretation of what Fritz was doing there...But don't take my word for it, go to the Fritz, Bookhout, and Hosty notes of the 3pm interrogation from which that statement from Oswald came...A proper analysis of that interrogation will show that all three sets of notes start 90 seconds after the assassination "When Officer Came In"...The reason for that is quite simple...It is because all three sets of notes clumsily removed Oswald telling them he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...The research community has been brainwashed with bombardment of the Prayer Man version of those notes...Because of this no one has asked the simple question of why didn't the 3pm interrogation ask Oswald the most important question they could ask: "Where were you during the assassination?"...The simple answer is THEY DID ask Oswald that and he promptly told them he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room eating lunch, like Oswald told Stanton, and Carolyn Arnold witnessed...If you view the notes from the 3pm interrogation they all bear the same conspicuous gap where they asked Oswald where he was during the assassination...That's why all three sets of notes all start at the Lunch Room Encounter...It is because all three sloppily excised Oswald telling them he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room right before...This is why the authorities lied and said they took no notes...


Fritz gave the game away a second time in his Commission testimony when Ball asked him what Oswald was doing in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...Ball tried to bait Fritz by leading the witness and trying to get Fritz to confirm that Oswald "Was Up There" to get the Coca Cola from the 1st Floor...Fritz wouldn't take the bait and refused to give Ball what he was fishing for...Fritz responded "He said he had a Coca Cola"...Fritz was obviously intentionally trying to tell Ball that Oswald was in there the whole time and never "Went Up" (as Jack Dougherty confirmed to Gil Toff in 1971):


Captain Fritz:  Yes, sir; I asked him about that and he knew that the officer stopped him all right.

Mr Ball:  Did you ask him what he was doing in the Lunch Room?

Captain Fritz:  He said he was having his lunch. He had a cheese sandwich and a Coca-Cola.

Mr Ball:  Did he tell you he was up there to get a Coca-Cola?

Captain Fritz:  He said he had a Coca-Cola.



Again, if you are a responsible conspiracy researcher you will notice that, counter to what was claimed about Oswald saying he ate lunch on the 1st Floor in the official story, Fritz is once again confirming here that Oswald told the 3pm interrogators that he ate lunch in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...The very place he told Sarah Stanton he was going and Carolyn Arnold witnessed...Carolyn Arnold witnessed Oswald eating that lunch at 12:25 and Buell Frazier said a cheese sandwich and apple were seen on that table after the assassination...Fritz is very obviously confirming that Oswald wasn't "Up There" to eat his lunch...Instead he was there the whole time...It is painfully obvious that if the Commission was on the up and up Ball would have immediately asked "Are you saying Oswald told you he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination?"...Any competent investigation would have asked that because of their knowledge of the Lunch Room Encounter shortly after to see if Oswald was in there the whole time...Instead Ball tries to lead Fritz back to the official script...


Bart Kamp and the Prayer Man people misquote the Hosty Notes and try to infer that "Went Out To Watch Presidential Parade" means Oswald was Prayer Man...Kamp is not honestly telling the reader that the time period being referred to in that quote is several minutes after the shots...


The clincher is the statement of James Hosty himself in Nigel Turner's 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy'...Hosty wanted to get the guilt off his shoulders so he looked in to Nigel Turner's camera lens and emphatically stated "Oswald told us he was in the Lunch Room during the assassination"...Let it be known that there is no doubt that what Hosty is saying there is Oswald told the 3pm interrogation that he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...The reason why Hosty doesn't specify which Lunch Room is because he knows it is the 2nd Floor Lunch Room and doesn't want to perjure himself...Bart Kamp himself found the Gil Toff interview in Malcolm Blunt's notes where Jack Dougherty said "Oswald was up eating his lunch in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room while I ate my lunch down below in the Domino Room and Oswald wasn't there"...The Prayer Man people are perfectly aware of Hosty's statement to Nigel Turner...They ignore it...If Nigel Turner was more on the ball he would have immediately asked Hosty "Why didn't you include that in your notes?"...The obvious answer being because he knew it was Oswald's true location and exonerated him at the time...This indeed proves the 3pm interrogation removed that statement from their notes...In any case, once you see Hosty state with emphasis that Oswald told them he was in the Lunch Room during the assassination in 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy' there is no way you can interpret "Went Out To Watch Presidential Parade" as meaning Oswald was Prayer Man...


The Lunch Room Encounter was real and Baker left it out of his 1st Day Affidavit because he knew it exonerated Oswald...


It appears that today's conspiracy researchers no longer participate in discussion of evidence...

[Richard Gilbride]

That is an excellent point, Brian-  the correct subjective "reading of the tea leaves" as to what Fritz was intimating in his testimony, and Hosty was hinting at during his interview.

Couple that with the correct objective film forensics- that prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that Oswald is NOT PrayerMan- and you get an argument that is rigorous in extremis against the lunchroom hoax.

I hope that Roger Odisio has a chance to look at this particular thread, and the Sarah Stanton (i.e. PrayerMan) thread, to get some perspective on how inept the scholarship has been that has led to searching the NBC film archives for "PrayerMan".

This has been one of the rotten fruits of a decade of saloon scholarship, whose proponents are brain-damaged narcissists. And yet they have been given a platform by the English "Dr." James Gordon at the Education Forum, who banned me, and mention of my name, and mention of my research (almost entirely about the Depository), and mention of my website jfkinsidejob.com-  all for daring to call Sean Murphy what he is-  a stupid drunk. That is Gordon's vision of how free speech and inquiry will be tailored when investigating the murder of a American president. Two-fisted drinking Englishmen, Irish and Australians carry the day for voices to be heard for an crime on U.S. soil.

It will have a positive effect, in my opinion, having an NBC archive enhancement brought to light-  not only to 100% dispel the PrayerMan nonsense (that has already been done), but to 100% expose the epic stupidity that pervades the JFK research community, which goes right to the top.

The enablers-  DiEugenio, Hancock, Gordon-  have been just as poisonous as the proponents-  Murphy, Parker, Kamp. Maybe the NBC enhancement will be a strong hint that it's time for them all to head out to pasture...

Or will they instead headline the next snoozer of a November-in-Dallas conference?

[Brian Doyle]

The Prayer Man supporters have distorted the true meaning of the notes from the 3pm interrogation on the day of the assassination...If you study the notes of Captain Fritz, James Bookhout, and James Hosty all three sets of notes bear a similar commonality...All three sets of notes start at the Lunch Room Encounter 90 seconds after the shots...All three sets of notes then take Oswald down to the 1st Floor to eat his lunch...And finally all three sets of notes take Oswald outside on the front steps...This basic framework is discernable in all three sets of notes...


It is possible to decipher the deception in those notes by following what I have been posting in these threads...Mind you it is important to use the template of Oswald telling the 3pm interrogators that he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination and that statement being removed from the notes...


Here is Captain Fritz's notes:

"Claims 2nd Floor Coke When Officer Came In
To First Floor Had Lunch
Out With Bill Shelley In Front"


Here are Bookhout's Notes:

"Oswald Stated That On November 22, 1963, At The Time Of The Search of The Texas School Book Depository Building By Dallas Police Officers, He was On The Second Floor Of Said Building, Having Just Purchased A Coca-Cola From The Soft Drink Machine, At Which Time A Police Officer Came In To The Room With Pistol Drawn And Asked Him If He Worked there. Mr Truly Was Present And Verified That He Was An Employee And The Police Officer Thereafter Left the Room And Continued Through The Building. Oswald Stated That He Took His Coke Down To The First Floor And Stood Around And Had Lunch In The Employee's Lunch Room. He Thereafter Went Outside And Stood Around For Five Or Ten Minutes With Foreman Bill Shelley." 


And here are Hosty's Notes:

"O Stated He Was Present For Work At TBD On The Morning Of 11/22 And At Noon Went To Lunch. He Went To 2nd Floor To Get A Coca-Cola To Eat With Lunch And Returned To First Floor To Eat Lunch. Then Went Outside To Watch P Parade."



Any examination of the Fritz, Bookhout, and Hosty Notes will show they all have the same framework of going from the 2nd Floor Lunch Room to the First Floor and then outside...


It is important to note my previous examination of Captain Fritz's testimony in the other threads because I have shown that Fritz was the more forthcoming and accurate...Fritz came right out and told the Commission that Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room eating his lunch during the assassination so therefore Fritz's notes of the 3pm interrogation are the more credible...And because of that we see that Fritz has calibrated his account with a time mark of being when Baker confronted Oswald 90 seconds after the shots...If we look at Bookhout's notes he also confirmed that Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room with a Coca-Cola when Baker encountered him...Both Fritz and Bookhout confirm that their notes start at the Lunch Room Encounter and therefore confirm, by inference, that the question of where Oswald was during the assassination has been removed before it...Also, please take note that Bookhout's version is clearest that Oswald went outside long after the Lunch Room Encounter...


Hosty's Notes are more undetailed however they still follow the exact pattern of 2nd Floor Lunch Room, down to 1st Floor to eat Lunch, and then outside...Hosty's notes omit the time mark Fritz and Bookhout provided for the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...Since both Fritz and Bookhout made clear that Baker's confrontation happened at 90 seconds after the shots, and Hosty's notes possess the exact same framework as Fritz's and Bookhout's, we have to assume that the "Went To 2nd Floor To Get A Coca-Cola To Eat With Lunch" portion of Hosty's notes is also during the Lunch Room Encounter 90 seconds after the shots...There's a very simple detective scale to apply here...Fritz was openly defiant in his admitting the real location of Oswald and Hosty was concealing...We have to go with Fritz's and Bookhout's given times and therefore assume that Hosty, since he witnessed the exact same interview, had to be saying Oswald was confronted by Baker in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room 90 seconds after the shots...With this known, we then examine that all three sets of notes start at the Lunch Room Encounter 90 seconds after the shots and therefore omit the part where they asked Oswald where he was during the assassination...And since Hosty's notes are identical in chronology as Fritz's and Bookhout's therefore "Went outside to watch Presidential Parade" can't be any earlier than 4 minutes after the shots and therefore can't be used to say Oswald was Prayer Man...It is very obvious that what we have here is evidence, by omission, that Oswald told the 3pm interrogation that he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination and the interrogators removed it from their notes...It is also evidence that "Went Outside To Watch Presidential Parade" cannot possibly suggest Oswald was Prayer Man...   


It would be irresponsible to not mention Hosty telling Nigel Turner that Oswald said he was in the Lunch Room during the assassination...Once you see Hosty say this to Nigel Turner you realize the only place that would fit in to Hosty's Notes would be after getting the Coca-Cola and returning to the 1st Floor to eat lunch...But that doesn't make sense because both Fritz and Bookhout were clear that Oswald was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the Lunch Room Encounter...I guess you could say that Oswald was eating lunch in the Domino Room before he went up to get the Coke and that was when he was on the 1st Floor during the shooting, but to make that happen you have to ignore both Sarah Stanton and Carolyn Arnold who heard or saw Oswald in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...You would have to ignore Captain Fritz who made it very clear that Oswald told him he was eating lunch in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination...You would have to ignore Fritz again when he refused to say Oswald "Went Up" to get the Coca-Cola...And you would have to ignore Jack Dougherty's very precise claim that Oswald was up eating his lunch in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room while he ate his lunch down below in the Domino Room...It becomes more than clear here that the reason why Hosty has limited the details in his notes is because he is avoiding committing to these incriminating timings...It is also why Hosty omits Oswald saying he was in the Lunch Room during the assassination in those same notes...All said, Hosty is the least reliable and most deceptive...And he is also the main witness upon whom Kamp hangs his entire thesis...

[Richard Gilbride]

Marvin Johnson's report also stated that Baker "started to search the man"- a further indication that Baker indeed had an interaction with the suspect.

At the end of the day, after 15+ years of their empty hypothesis, what the hoaxers have produced is another empty conclusion-  an episode that had a lot written about it and generated a lot of mistakes, hence a lot of ambiguous interpretations. As I noted on p. 86 of Death of the Lunchroom Hoax:

"Researchers need to remember that they weren't there on November 22nd. None of the witnesses had perfect recall of what they saw, or what they did, or what they were thinking, or what someone else said. And they did not relate it in the same way in each successive recollection. Nor were details perfectly transmitted each time another person was told second-hand about what some witnesses had seen, done, thought or said."

I would like to point out that this empty conclusion is the same empty conclusion reached by the hypothesis that the bus & taxi ride were a hoax. This hypothesis was eviscerated by John Armstrong in the last 3 pages of his 2017 essay Harvey and Lee Depart the TSBD. At the end of the day, the only thing the bus/taxi hoax hypothesis succeeded in telling us is that people don't have perfect memories.

Its proponents never produced "a single document or a single witness by which to prove the bus and taxi ride never happened. Nor did they offer an ounce of PROOF as to what they think COULD HAVE happened-  only speculation, fantasies and daydreams." And they never identified "the person or persons who came up with the idea to fabricate a story in which the bus and taxi rider never happened ." They never named "the person or persons who had the knowledge, presence and ability to fabricate such a hoax within hours of Oswald's arrest."

And there is an entirely analogous situation with the lunchroom hoax. Its proponents put forth a convoluted mini-conspiracy, as complex as the plot to kill the President, based on speculations, fantasies and daydreams-  whose raison d'etre is for protecting the "identity of PrayerMan." And to carry out this convoluted mini-conspiracy a nebulous PrayerMan coverup-crew thereby twisted the arms of Baker, Truly, Fritz, Bookhout and several others to help keep a lid on the PrayerMan ultra secret.

The saloon scholars make connections that don't exist outside of their own little saloon. Not once have they presented a voice-stress analysis of Marrion Baker's filmed interviews, or otherwise presented irrefutable proof of him lying about the whereabouts of his encounter with Oswald. They have never even consulted a professional detective, or one of Baker's children, or anyone who could make a difference. 

They prefer to remain in the safety of their saloon, a cult of make-believe criminologists that produces rotten fruit.

[Brian Doyle]

If you go to the 17 minute mark of the linked video below you'll see James Hosty say in his own words that Oswald told the 3pm interrogators that he was in the Lunch Room during the assassination...It doesn't take a Sherlock Holmes to realize if Sarah Stanton heard Oswald say he intended to go back in to the Break Room, and Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in there at 12:25, and Fritz told the Commission that Oswald said he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the assassination, that the Lunch Room Hosty is referring to is the 2nd Floor Lunch Room...Hosty is very clever because he avoids mentioning exactly which Lunch Room to Nigel Turner...The reason Hosty does that is because he knows he is referencing the 2nd Floor Lunch Room only he can't say so directly because he would be perjuring himself and exonerating Oswald...


The clip from 'The Men Who Killed Kennedy' linked below is damning evidence that Oswald told the 3pm interrogation that he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room during the shots just like Fritz said...Since it is very hard to believe the interrogators failed to ask Oswald the most important question they could ask of "Where were you during the assassination?", therefore it is safe to assume that they did and Oswald told them he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room eating his lunch... That's why all 3 sets of notes start at the Lunch Room Encounter 90 seconds after the shots...It is because all 3 sets of notes clumsily removed Oswald telling them he was in the 2nd Floor Lunch Room right before...There's a big conspicuous missing gap in the notes where Oswald saying that should be...


So, yes, Richard...Truly failed to lead Baker past Oswald and up the next flight of stairs...Baker started to frisk Oswald, as Baker told Marvin Johnson...Again - the reason Baker omitted his frisking of Oswald is because he was trying to minimize his exposure to Oswald's lunch on the table that Carolyn Arnold also saw...Bookhout also referenced that lunch when he detailed Oswald's getting a Coca Cola before his encounter with Baker...Oswald was buying the Coca Cola to wash down his lunch, if you study his routine...The time it took to do that cancels any running down from the 6th Floor...Sarah Stanton said Oswald was holding a soda...What the now-established lunch does is create circumstantial behavioral evidence where Oswald got up from the table where Carolyn Arnold saw him eating and walked to the Vestibule Door Window after hearing Adams & Styles running down the stairs...Behaviorally, Oswald went to the Vestibule Window to use it for what it was meant for - looking through...In order to do that he had to stand in it, stationary, in order to watch the staircase...When Oswald saw a cop he flinched back and retreated in to the Lunch Room...Baker saw that guilty flinching and pursued...When Baker went in to the Lunch Room to frisk Oswald he saw the Coke Oswald was holding as well as his lunch on the table...Bookhout confirms the Coca Cola...The reason why Oswald was calm and not out of breath is because he was standing stationary and still in the Lunch Room Vestibule Door Window...Hosty said Oswald was alone...That's what Carolyn Arnold said too...Dougherty was in the Domino Room so it couldn't be that Lunch Room because Oswald couldn't be alone with Dougherty there...The only Lunch Room Hosty can be referring to is the 2nd Floor Lunch Room that Fritz confirmed...


Greg Parker, Sean Murphy, and Bart Kamp were all very familiar with the linked video below...This is evidence that those gentlemen do not respect the intelligence of their readers because they intentionally omitted Hosty's statement in Nigel Turner's documentary...That's what the Prayer Man people do...They omit or ignore evidence that refutes them...There is no researcher worth listening to on the Kennedy internet who would try to get away with saying "Went Out To Watch Presidential Parade" meant that Oswald was Prayer Man...If you read my evidence in these threads I have more than adequately proven that statement was referring to a time period that was 4-5 minutes after the shots...All you have to do is listen to Hosty himself say that Oswald told them he was in the Lunch Room during the shots...This, and the fact Hosty omitted Oswald saying that from his notes, is proof that Hosty did not mean Oswald was outside on the steps during the shots...


Oswald never went out front on the steps...If you read my "Advancing Armstrong" thread the 3pm interrogators lied about Oswald leaving out front with Shelley because they were trying to cover-up the fact Shelley assisted Oswald out the rear Loading Dock exit...The whole idea of passing Oswald to Shelley on the front steps is because the interrogators know Shelley was CIA and would assist with the deception in order to cover-up his own doings...This only goes to show how badly the Prayer Man believers damaged the most important solutions that are now coming in to focus...There's complex highly intelligent detective work the Prayer Man people made invisible all so they could push their idiotic theory...That's a serious sin against good research...They are literally preventing the final solution...


Watch Hosty reveal all this at 17 minutes:



   https://gil-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads...nesses.mp4