Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
How does Israel fit into the big picture?
#11
I have no problem with many Jews wanting to return to where they feel is their 'biblical home'. I DO have a problem with their taking the land, homes, water, all from those who were living there when they 'returned' - and keeping most of those persons [the Palastinians] as refugees in their own country or adjacent to it. Israel and Israelis could live in peace there, I believe - and I think more than half of Israelis would like to - but [as in the USA] the rulling elites are the right; the militarists and connected to a kind of 'western rule' of the world. There is a close parallel with what happened to the Native Americans in America and what is happening to the Palistinians in the Middle East and the same sense of empire and rascism was sadly behind both. There is one additional problem in the Middle East and that is the small size of Israel and the region....with nukes and even with conventional weapons there is good reason for the oppressor to worry if the oppressed might well seek justice - and they and their allies are just a hair's breath away. By the way, there is a large and sane anti-colonialist and peace movement in Israel. May they eventually prevail there and in America. In the meantime, Israel stands as a kind of permanent base for US and W. European Elites to keep control of the area. Israel far from being a pawn uses its important position to get what they want and even to spy on the western intelligence agencies more than they are spied upon by them.
Reply
#12
W.A.S.P. White Ashkenazi Sabra Paratrooper
WASPs are the elite there too.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#13
Maybe Obama surrounding himself with Zionist hardliners means he's planning a global diplomatic effort to secure an agreement with Iran on the nuclear issue.

I can't see what's in it for Iran or why they would get sucked in.

Watch for the massive anti-Iran media campaign.
Reply
#14
And what I will never understand is why is it ok for all the other countrys to have nukes but "very bad" for Iran, etc. I am tired of the "they are crazy" response I get. After all only the US has ever actually used nukes. Twice.
(I favor abolition of all weapons, especially nukes so I am not advocating Iran getting one, just critical of the irrational response I get from US citizens on this.)

I remember reading an article in the Boston Globe back in about '84 or maybe '85 - on an important nuking anniversary- that this was totally unnecessary, that Japan was about to surrender. It made me bonkers. So it seems to me that the country to fear is the US.
Dawn
ps Thanks for the reminder of this thread Myra.
Reply
#15
From Syd Walker's blog, an article by Diane Mason which, with great clarity and brevity, answers the title of this thread better than any article I have ever read.

http://sydwalker.info/blog/2008/12/30/no...omment-550

Americans and British in particular--PLEASE READ IT. (I rarely use upper case) Big Grin.
Reply
#16
Mark: Thanks for those links. Daine Mason has made me finally understand all of this in one short blog. My friend David Skinner in Ariz has been trying for now 37 years to explain this to me. And he's Jewish. He is so angry about the political situation in the world right now that when we speak - like for two hours yesterday- it's primarily about our families. (He has not forgiven me- or anyone- for voting for Obama so we leave politics for another day). I just sent this to him. He will be glad to see Ms. Mason's article because it really does explain the whole thing, simply, and in a way no American can fail to understand. All Christians need to read this. I have long understood that the unfairness about uprooting people from their homeland is wrong, and wondered why all could not just "live there in peace", but I did not understand the numbers involved. The percentages. The inherent inequality being demanded/inflicted. Just staggering.

Dawn
Reply
#17
Mark Stapleton Wrote:From Syd Walker's blog, an article by Diane Mason which, with great clarity and brevity, answers the title of this thread better than any article I have ever read.

http://sydwalker.info/blog/2008/12/30/no...omment-550
...

Thanks very much for that link Mark.

Here's what Naomi Klein has to say about the subject in The Shock Doctrine (I know, I quote her a lot), Chapter 21 "Losing the Peace Incentive: Israel as Warning." Her focus is more contemporary, starting with the 1990's.

"The extraordinary performance of Israel's homeland security companies is well known to stock watchers, but it is rarely discussed as a factor in the politics of the region. It should be. It is not a coincidence that the Israeli state's decision to put "counterterrorism" at the center of its export economy has coincided precisely with its abandonment of peace negotiations, as well as a clear strategy to reframe its conflict with the Palestinians not as a battle against a nationalist movement with specific goals for the land and rights but rather as part of the global War on Terror--one against illogical, fanatical forces bent only on destruction.
...
What makes Israel interesting as a guns-and-caviar model [wherein fighter jets=guns and executive jets=caviar both sell well] is not only that its economy is resilient in the face of major political shocks such as the 2006 war with Lebanon or Hamas's 2007 takeover of Gaza, but also that Israel has crafted an economy that expands markedly in direct response to escalating violence. The reasons for Israeli industry's comfort level with disaster are not mysterious. Years before U.S. and European companies grasped the potential of the global security boom, Israeli technology firms were busily pioneering the homeland security industry, and they continue to dominate the sector today. The Israeli Export Institute estimates that Israel has 350 corporations dedicated to selling homeland security products, and 30 new ones entered the market in 2007. From a corporate perspective, this development has made Israel a model to be emulated in the post-911 market. From a social and political perspective, however, Israel should serve as something else--as stark warning. The fact that Israel continues to enjoy booming prosperity, even as it wages war against its neighbors and escalates the brutality in the occupied territories, demonstrates just how perilous it is to build an economy based on the premise of continual war and deepening disasters.

Israel's current ability to combine guns and caviar is the culmination of a dramatic shift in the nature of its economy over the past fifteen years, one that has had a profound and little-examined impact on the parallel disintegration of prospects for peace. The last time there was a credible prospect of peace breaking out in the Middle East was in the early nineties, a time when a powerful constituency of Israelis believed that continued conflict was no longer an option. Communism had collapsed, the information revolution was beginning, and there was a widespread conviction inside Israel's business community that the bloody occupation of Gaza and the West Bank, compounded by the boycott of Israel by Arab states, was putting Israel's economic future in peril. Seeing the explosion of "emerging markets" around the world, Israeli corporations were tired of being held back by war; they wanted to be part of the high-profit borderless world, not penned in by regional strife. If the Israeli government could negotiate some sort of peace agreement with the Palestinians, Israel's neighbors would have to lift their boycotts, and the country would be perfectly positioned to the Middle East's free-trade hub.
...
Shimon Peres, then foreign minister, explained to a group of Israeli journalists that peace was now inevitable. It was a very particular kind of peace, however. "We are not seeking a peace of flags," Peres said, "we are interested in a peace of markets." A few months later the Israeli prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, and the Palestinian Liberation Organization chairman, Yasser Arafat, shook hands on the White House lawn to mark the inauguration of the Oslo Accords. The world cheered, the three men shared the 1994 Nobel Peace Prize--and then it all went horribly wrong.

Many factors contributed to the subsequent breakdown....However, two factors that contributed to Israel's retreat into unilateralism are little understood and rarely discussed, both related to the unique ways that the Chicago School free-market crusade played out in Israel. One was the influx of Soviet Jews, which was a direct result of Russia's shock therapy experiment. The other was the flipping of Israel's export economy from one based on traditional goods and high technology to one disproportionately dependent on selling expertise and devices related to counterrorism. Both factors were greatly disruptive to the Oslo process: the arrival of Russians reduced Israel's reliance on Palestinian labor and allowed it to seal in the occupied territories, while the rapid expansion of the high-tech security economy created a powerful appetite inside Israel's wealthy and most powerful sectors for abandoning peace in favor of fighting a continual, and continuously expanding, War on Terror.
...
Len Rosen, a prominent Israeli investment banker, told Fortune magazine, "It's security that matters more than peace." During Oslo, "people were looking for peace to provide growth. Now they're looking for security so violence doesn't curtail growth." He could have gone much further: the business of providing "security"--in Israel and around the world--is directly responsible for much of Israel's meteoric economic growth in recent years. It is not an exaggeration to say that the War on Terror industry saved Israel's faltering economy, much as the disaster capitalism complex helped rescue the global stock markets.
...
Clearly, Israeli industry no longer has reason to fear war.
...
This recipe for endless worldwide war is the same one that the Bush administration offered as a business prospectus to the nascent disaster capitalism complex after September 11. It is not a war that can by any country, but winning is not the point. The point is to create "security" inside fortress states bolstered by endless low-level conflict outside their walls. In a way, it is the same goal that the private security companies have in Iraq: secure the perimeter, protect the principal. Baghdad, New Orleans and Sandy Springs provide glimpses of a kind of gated future built and run by the disaster capitalism complex. It is in Israel, however, that this process is most advanced: an entire country has turned itself into a fortified gated community, surrounded by locked-out people living in permanently excluded red zones. This is what a society looks like when it has lost its economic incentive for peace and is heavily invested in fighting and profiting from an endless and unwinnable War on Terror. One part looks like Israel; the other part looks like Gaza.
...
This discarding of 25-60 percent of the population has been the hallmark of the Chicago School crusade since the "misery villages" began mushrooming throughout the Southern Cone in the seventies. In South Africa, Russia, and New Orleans the rich build walls around themselves. Israel has taken this disposal process a step further: it has built walls around the dangerous poor."

Reply
#18
Dawn Meredith Wrote:Mark: Thanks for those links. Daine Mason has made me finally understand all of this in one short blog. My friend David Skinner in Ariz has been trying for now 37 years to explain this to me. And he's Jewish. He is so angry about the political situation in the world right now that when we speak - like for two hours yesterday- it's primarily about our families. (He has not forgiven me- or anyone- for voting for Obama so we leave politics for another day). I just sent this to him. He will be glad to see Ms. Mason's article because it really does explain the whole thing, simply, and in a way no American can fail to understand. All Christians need to read this. I have long understood that the unfairness about uprooting people from their homeland is wrong, and wondered why all could not just "live there in peace", but I did not understand the numbers involved. The percentages. The inherent inequality being demanded/inflicted. Just staggering.

Dawn

Yes Dawn, it's the underlying historical injustice which is always forgotten. This is by design of course.

If I lived in Gaza I would support Hamas, as would most other people reading this, I suspect. Portraying a legitimate resistance movement as evil incarnate, with mass slaughter of civilians as a justifiable means to an end, is arguably the biggest of Israel's many lies.
Reply
#19
Myra Bronstein Wrote:This is what a society looks like when it has lost its economic incentive for peace and is heavily invested in fighting and profiting from an endless and unwinnable War on Terror. One part looks like Israel; the other part looks like Gaza.
...
This discarding of 25-60 percent of the population has been the hallmark of the Chicago School crusade since the "misery villages" began mushrooming throughout the Southern Cone in the seventies. In South Africa, Russia, and New Orleans the rich build walls around themselves. Israel has taken this disposal process a step further: it has built walls around the dangerous poor."

[/B]

I can see why you are a fan of Naomi Klein, Myra. She puts it very nicely.

Being immune from MSM criticism and being feared by western politicians has served Israel very well, up to now.
Reply
#20
Mark Stapleton Wrote:I can see why you are a fan of Naomi Klein, Myra. She puts it very nicely.

Being immune from MSM criticism and being feared by western politicians has served Israel very well, up to now.

True Mark. But the MSM is toast. Newspapers are going bankrupt, TV stations are losing their audience. People are getting their information from the internet, so more and more they're seeing things as they really are.

Obviously this fact vexes the disaster capitalists and they'll do everything then can to hobble the revolutionary exchange of information. But for now it's a huge benefit.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Syria: The New Suez Attack by France, UK and Israel also Fails David Guyatt 1 8,366 25-09-2018, 12:25 PM
Last Post: David Guyatt
  Syria - Israel, The Elephant in the Room? David Guyatt 0 3,810 05-10-2016, 11:15 AM
Last Post: David Guyatt
  Israel On Killing Spree In Gaza Peter Lemkin 181 42,298 09-01-2014, 03:28 PM
Last Post: Tracy Riddle
  Israel has attacked Gaza Flotilla (dead and wounded) Ed Jewett 245 52,682 15-05-2013, 08:44 AM
Last Post: David Guyatt
  Muslim nations demand Israel open its nuke program to IAEA Ed Jewett 1 2,068 26-09-2011, 09:59 AM
Last Post: Peter Lemkin
  Greece, Israel Agree on military cooperation Ed Jewett 1 2,517 06-09-2011, 01:39 AM
Last Post: Magda Hassan
  US may end loan guarantees to Israel Magda Hassan 0 2,188 30-07-2011, 11:28 AM
Last Post: Magda Hassan
  Flotilla Aims to Break Israel's Grip on Gaza Keith Millea 17 6,007 14-07-2010, 05:44 PM
Last Post: Keith Millea
  Israel stations Nuclear Subs near Iran Carsten Wiethoff 3 4,443 16-06-2010, 08:54 PM
Last Post: Ed Jewett
  Is Israel planning act of desperation? Ed Jewett 1 2,050 07-06-2010, 07:16 AM
Last Post: Ed Jewett

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)