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How does Israel fit into the big picture?
#1
Can anyone explain, in a couple of sentences Big Grin, how Israel fits into the big picture? I need serious remedial ed on this.

I have a vague sense that the practical value in Israel is in it's location--it provides the US with a base in the middle east from which to potentially launch missiles and such. Obviously that's where the oil is, and a good climate for opium poppies I suppose. It also seems like a prototype for the type of oppressive power that the US wants to be, like a test lab.

And it appears that sheeple of the gringo persuasion are persuaded to go along with US support of Israel's by depicting it as the mythical portal to the mythical rapture. Obviously since it encompasses the "holy land" that makes it more important to certain religions and more believable that it's the rapture site.

Beyond that I'm hazy.
Anyone want to help out... if you dare. Such an incendiary topic... :eek:
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#2
One more thing--do you guys think we need a new folder for discussion of various countries and geography? I don't know that the above post really belongs in this folder.
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#3
I see Israel as like a cookoo bird. It sits in a nest not their own. A European out post in the Arab and Turkish world. It was a creation of colonialism. Part of the play between France, England Russian and the Ottoman empires with not a small role by the US. Naturally France and England wanted control over the Ottoman empire remains and it was the Ashkenazi (European) not Sephardi Jews who ruled the roost. Most of the land was bought from wealthy and absent Turkish landlords by the Rothschilds and other wealthy European Jewish families. They still lived in Europe though but the poor Jews of Europe were encouraged to move there and work. The poor Plaestinians who lived there for centuries and who got licked off their land. In most cases they never knew someone else owned it. Land was also taken from the Turkey by Britain as reparations for the war. The early Zionist considered many other locations before settling in Palestine. Uganda, Patagonia, Australia. It was a political movement not religious. For many religious Jew the state of Israel is illegitmate though it is supported by other religous elements in Judaism and Christianity. The creation of Israel was supported by the European powers in some cases as a mean of dealing with the 'Jewish' problem there. In the case of England and the US it also served as a means of controling oil fields. Perfidious Britain made promises to both Palestinians and Jews. Britain needed the help of the Arabs in their war against the Turks (who were allies of the Germans) to keep access to the oil of the middle east (Lawrence of Arabia) . Palestinians were promised independence after the war. The Balfour Declaration promised British backing for a Jewish home land. Jewish capitalists just wanted to expand their business opportunities and they were happy to use poor and idealistic European Jews to make it happen. They were also funding the British government and had some leverage.

Well that's a couple more sentences than you wanted.

Just want to stress that class interests play a huge part in this. Rich Jews bought much of the land from Rich Turks and Arabs moving in poor Jews and dispossessing poor Palestinians. The rich Jews and Arabs have always lived else where. There are huge tax breaks and lots of incentives (and bigger houses) for those Israelis who want to live in the occupied territories. And an army to protect you. Life is hard for the average Jewish Israei but not as hard as the average Palestinian who is probably living in a refugee camp outside Israel and they are not permitted to return. Generally speaking Israeli industry and business is better integrated into Europe and and US economies (and vis-a-versa) and also rides on the back of Palestinian dispossession. Israel also serves to keep the Arab world divided and disorganised. Arab ruling class are bought by the US and European business interests. Palestinian interests are sacrificed all round.

Does that answer your question?
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#4
Magda Hassan Wrote:...
Does that answer your question?

It's starting to. I'm percolating on it. It's still nebulous to me.
Is there a specific resource--book, movie, etc--you recommend?

Thanks for the input Maggie. I like the cuckoo bird simile.
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#5
Somethings to read here:

http://www.alnakba.org/
http://www.alnakba.org/links/organizations.htm
http://www.palestineremembered.com/
http://electronicintifada.net/new.shtml
http://www.jkcook.net/
http://www.jkcook.net/Useful-Links.htm
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
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#6
I would add my brief cynicism here in that I wonder if Palestine, and then Israel, was midwifed into being for the purposes of creating a perpetual rift in the Middle East so that the west could control the oilfields in the ensuing chaos, under the old divide and rule rubric.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#7
Since the British are behind this and they do that so very well I believe you may be 100% right David.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply
#8
David Guyatt Wrote:I would add my brief cynicism here in that I wonder if Palestine, and then Israel, was midwifed into being for the purposes of creating a perpetual rift in the Middle East so that the west could control the oilfields in the ensuing chaos, under the old divide and rule rubric.

This is a really good and succinct take on the topic.
Thanks David.

The 'divide and conquer' strategy should never be overlooked or underestimated.
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#9
I agree with David's take on Israel being strategically beneficial to the West in running interference within that oil rich region---up to a point. Beyond that, Israel's unique and disturbing paranoia takes on a life of its own. During the Suez crisis in 1956, Israel displayed wanton disregard for its allies (and the UN) in initially refusing to withdraw from captured territories. Only after serious threats from the US did Israel reluctantly and slowly withdraw.

Israel's disregard for world opinion concerning Palestine (now the West Bank and Gaza) is notorious. Immunity from criticism in the Western press is apparently ample justification for Israel to continue its disgusting ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians.

But the issue of nuclear weaponry provides the most stunning exhibition of Israeli paranoia. This spoilt brat among nation states is the only nuclear power within the region. The duplicity with which Israel acquired this capability is legendary and is best explained in Avner Cohen's ''Israel and the bomb''(1998). In 1963, Shimon Peres promised JFK that Israel would not be the first nation in the region to acquire such weapons. He lied. Golda Meir lied. Ben-Gurion lied. So did many others. The US even supplied Israel with a research reactor at Nachal Soreq in order to placate the Israelis and preclude the construction of the larger reactor at Dimona. However, it wasn't enough. It's never enough for Israel.

The nuclear club now includes the US, Russia, UK, France, China, North Korea, India, Pakistan, South Africa and Israel. I don't think I missed any. Countries like India have learned to live with a nuclear armed Pakistan (and vice versa). Russia and the US, China and North Korea all have accepted the reality of a nuclear armed neighbour. Not Israel. Never Israel. As journalist Paul Sheehan writes, Israel is now preparing to attack Iran and its nuclear sites, regardless of the implications for the rest of us:


http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/paul-...ntentSwap1

Israeli hawks ready to fly on Iran

Paul Sheehan
November 24, 2008

Prepare for war. Last week I met the Boogie Man, the former head of the Israeli Defence Forces, General Moshe "Boogie" Ya'alon, who is preparing the political groundwork for a military attack on Iran's key nuclear facilities. "We have to confront the Iranian revolution immediately," he told me. "There is no way to stabilise the Middle East today without defeating the Iranian regime. The Iranian nuclear program must be stopped."

Defeating the theocratic regime in Tehran could be economic or political or, as a last resort, military, he said. "All tools, all options, should be considered." He was speaking in the tranquillity of the Shalem Centre in Jerusalem, where he was, until last Thursday, one of Israel's plethora of warrior-scholars, though more influential than most.

Could "all options" include decapitating the Iranian leadership by military strikes, including on President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who has called for Israel's destruction? "We have to consider killing him," Ya'alon replied. "All options must be considered."

That's why he's called Boogie. This is significant, for several reasons. Ya'alon has decided to enter what he called "the cold waters of Israeli politics". He will run for the conservative Likud party in the general election in Israel on February 10. Likud is leading the opinion polls. So I could have been speaking to Israel's next defence minister or, at least, an influential member of the next cabinet.

He is not known for making idle threats. Ya'alon is a former paratroop commander and was deputy leader of the Israel Defence Forces from 2000 to 2002, then chief of staff from 2002 to 2005, during the most recent Palestinian uprising, or intifada. He is credited with shutting it down.

Events are moving quickly. The Israeli Atomic Energy Commission has estimated that Iran will have produced enough highly enriched uranium by the end of next year to produce a nuclear bomb. Next year is widely regarded in Israel as year zero for the strategic decision about Iran's nuclear program.

"There is a growing sense of anxiety here, from the top levels down," said Eran Lerman, a former senior member of Israel's Directorate of Military Intelligence. "The anxiety is built on the knowledge that the Iranians are pressing ahead. The centrifuges are whirring away. Next year will be critical."

Boogie Ya'alon agrees. He has long regarded Iran as the main wellspring of instability and terrorism in the region.

"I was chief of staff during Operation Iraqi Freedom [the US invasion of Iraq in 2003] and I was surprised the US decided to go into Iraq instead of Iran … Unfortunately, the American public didn't have the political stomach to go into Iran."

Ya'alon does. "Military intervention would not be one strike. It needs to be a sustained operation … Any military strike in Iran will be quietly applauded by Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the Gulf states. It is a misconception to think that the Arab-Israeli conflict is the most important in the Middle-East. The Shiite-Sunni schism is much bigger, the Persian-Arab divide is bigger, the struggle between national regimes and jihadism is much bigger. And I can't imagine the US will want to share power in the Middle East with a nuclear-armed Iran."

The Boogie doctrine is mainstream, not fringe, in the Israeli strategic debate. "We cannot accept a nuclear Iran, we cannot be reconciled to it," Major-General Amos Gilad, the head of the Defence Department's Diplomatic Security Bureau, told The Jerusalem Post last Thursday.

"Israel is preparing for an attack on the Iran nuclear facilities," Dr Jonathan Spyer, a senior research fellow at the Global Research in International Affairs Centre, told me in Tel Aviv last week.

"Sanctions won't work against Iran. Only a military action against Iran will work," Professor Efraim Inbar said. "I know the Israeli military is preparing its capacity to destroy the Iranian nuclear threat."

Inbar is another of Israel's warrior-scholars, a former paratrooper who is professor in political studies at Bar-Ian University and Director of the Begin-Sadat Centre for Strategic Studies. He does not accept the argument, popular in America, than the Iranian nuclear facilities are already impregnable to attack. "I'm a paratrooper. If you are committed, if you are willing to pay the price, you can destroy the target."

Inbar also believes the Iranian regime, by spreading Persian and Shiite power, is widely unpopular in the Sunni Arab world.

In effect, Israel has already conducted a test run into an enemy country and been encouraged by the results. In September last year, Israeli Air Force jets destroyed a nuclear facility under construction in Syria. Israel never said a word. Syria never said a word. No government in the Middle East ever said a word.

"Israel's raid on Syria was greeted by a thunderous silence from the rest of the region," Eran Lerman said. "What that silence told us was that the rest of the region regard Syria as part of the Iranian problem. If Iran obtains the bomb, even if they don't use it or threaten to use it, they will have positioned themselves in a way that will transform this region into a much more dangerous place. Iran has influence on the Shiia communities, not just in Iraq and through Hezbollah in Lebanon but in Syria and the Gulf states. The position of the moderate states in the Gulf will have been rendered more fragile."

Lerman, too, believes next year will be year zero. "Unless the pace [of developing Iran's nuclear program] is slowed down, we will need to face some bitter decisions within a year. The sanctions have failed.

"The Iranian regime's need for a nuclear bomb is a reflection of the profound crisis in which it finds itself after almost 30 years in power. They promised the earth and the country is in disarray. The regime has failed to create or sustain stable social structures. So the last validated remnant of the Iranian revolution is to destroy Israel."

Israel is preparing accordingly. The message is now clear.


Iran has just as much right to a nuclear capability as Israel--or anyone else for that matter. Of course, Israel doesn't see it that way and is prepared to risk a global conflict to (once again) get its own way.


Just how paranoid are these fuckers?
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#10
Quote:The nuclear club now includes the US, Russia, UK, France, China, North Korea, India, Pakistan, South Africa and Israel. I don't think I missed any. Countries like India have learned to live with a nuclear armed Pakistan (and vice versa). Russia and the US, China and North Korea all have accepted the reality of a nuclear armed neighbour.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=oRLON3ddZI...1&index=14
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." Karl Marx

"He would, wouldn't he?" Mandy Rice-Davies. When asked in court whether she knew that Lord Astor had denied having sex with her.

“I think it would be a good idea” Ghandi, when asked about Western Civilisation.
Reply


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