The Lyndon Johnson-Nelson Rockefeller Connection to the JFK Assassination

[Mark Stapleton]

And furthermore, Mr. Drago, the United States has about 300,000,000 people in it. Some of them even have the same first and last name. There are about 5-6 Robert Morrow's in the Austin, TX phone book alone. Robert D. Morrow is the CIA agent who wrote Betrayal, later known as First Hand Knowledge. He died in about 1997-98.

I have never represented myself as a dead CIA agent/author. I was in my mother's womb at the time of the JFK assassination in November, 1963. And no one else on this board has claimed I am Robert D. Morrow, author of First Hand Knowledge - except you. Must be your fertile imagination at work.

Careful with those fantasies or you might be imagining a phantom Lee Harvey Oswald in the southwest corner of the 6th floor of the TSBD magically pumping in bullets in JFK or you might be imaging JFK's head snapping violently FORWARD as Dan Rather did.

However, your stated belief that the US power elite, national security state, had as its GOAL as to leave Fidel Casto on power so that we would have an excuse to spend billions in the defense industry in order to counter that threat ... that is a delusional crack-smoking fantasy that I have only seen YOU make on any JFK assassination related discussion board.

The obvious truth - to many but not you - is that the US power elite, national security state was doing EVERYTHING in their power to get RID of Castro and a communist Cuba ... and in the end because of JFK's beginning attempts at normalization with Cuba, they assassinated him. I have a good book for you to read; it is called JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why it Matters by James Douglass (2008). It talks all about how and why the CIA decided to murder John Kennedy. Douglass leaves out the critical Lyndon Johnson angle, but despite that, it is a great book!

Robert, as a newbie you should be more respectful to Charles.

Otherwise some of us here won't show you any respect.

[Dawn Meredith]

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I'm glad you are reading my posts, Mr. Drago, you might learn something. It is not just rightwingers who are blinded in their ideology.

Robert: Charles Drago is not only a co-founder of DPF, he is a serious longtime researcher who is extremely respected in the community.
Insulting him on his own forum is a good way to find yourself gone.
It is you who can learn from CD, not vice versa.
Dawn

ps This has zero to do with ideology.

[Robert Morrow]

Is this what I supposed to "learn?":

Charles Drago:

"In point of fact, the long-term survival of that [Fidel Castro-controlled Cuban] government was then -- and remains to this day -- a key component in the preservation of hemispheric threat as a justification for military expenditures and a cover for assorted deep political operations."

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the historical record to support that statement. I don't think I have heard anyone - leftwing, rightwing, middle wing, deep politics, on the surface politics promote THAT THEORY before. I guess there is a 1 in 1 quadrillion chance it could be accurate.

Both the official US government and the "deep politics" shadow government were doing everything they could to get rid of Castro-controlled Cuba from 1960 onward. VP Richard Nixon and Operation 40 assassins, the CIA Bay of Pigs fiasco, almost the entire US cabinet and military wanted to bomb Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis ... all except JFK - and his non-interventionist Cuba policy was a big reason he got murdered.

After Lyndon Johnson and the CIA murdered JFK, I think they were more concerned with the cover up and saving their skins than an invasion of Cuba. So the anti-Castro Cubans Kennedy haters were the ones that got left holding the bag. But it is not because they liked and wanted to save a Castro-controlled Cuba. The tone of the American people in the JFK assassination aftermath was one of grief, not anger at a supposed Cuban/Russian hit on the US president.

Having said that - the murder of John Kennedy by Lyndon Johnson and his CIA allies and shadow government friends, was the ULTIMATE ploy of Operation Northwoods, which was designed to get us in a war with Cuba. It did not work, but it was not for a lack of trying! The killers of JFK certainly were not working to preserve a Castro-controlled Cuba - quite the opposite!

US policy since then for 47 years has been one of economic sanctions on Cuba, travel bans, against normalization. Preserving a pro-Castro Cuba has NOT been a goal of US policy - official government OR shadow government - at any time. Only NOW, 47 years later, is the prospect of "normalization" becoming any real possibility.

From Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, 3rd edition 1998 p. 638-639]:

“The Role of deep-cover CIA officer, Trenton Parker, has been described in earlier pages, and his function in the CIA's counter-intelligence unit, Pegasus. Parker had stated to me earlier that a CIA faction was responsible for the murder of JFK … During an August 21, 1993, conversation, in response to my questions, Parker said that his Pegasus group had tape recordings of plans to assassinate Kennedy. I asked him, "What group were these tapes identifying?" Parker replied: "Rockefeller, Allen Dulles, JOHNSON of Texas, GEORGE BUSH, and J. Edgar Hoover." I asked, "What was the nature of the conversation on these tapes?"

I don't have the tapes now, because all the tape recordings were turned over to [Congressman] Larry McDonald. But I listened to the tape recordings and there were conversations between Rockefeller, [J. Edgar] Hoover, where [Nelson] Rockefeller asks, "Are we going to have any problems?" And he said, "No, we aren't going to have any problems. I checked with Dulles. If they do their job we'll do our job." There are a whole bunch of tapes, because Hoover didn't realize that his phone has been tapped. Defrauding America, Rodney Stich, p. 638-639]:

[Jan Klimkowski]

I've only just read this thread.

Dawn - thank you for your measured interventions.

Charles has articulated his Mechanic/Facilitator/Sponsor template for deep political events, such as the JFK assassination, many times on this forum.

Just as LBJ is an important geopolitical TOOL (in all that word's connotations), so that Mechanic/Facilitator/Sponsor template is a valuable means of analysing deep political events.

Meanwhile:

Is this what I supposed to "learn?":

Charles Drago:

"In point of fact, the long-term survival of that [Fidel Castro-controlled Cuban] government was then -- and remains to this day -- a key component in the preservation of hemispheric threat as a justification for military expenditures and a cover for assorted deep political operations."

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the historical record to support that statement. I don't think I have heard anyone - leftwing, rightwing, middle wing, deep politics, on the surface politics promote THAT THEORY before. I guess there is a 1 in 1 quadrillion chance it could be accurate.

Robert - you are, quite simply, wrong. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the preservation of Castro's Cuba, as a hemispheric "bogeyman", is a core objective of deep political forces.

Indeed, the very survival of Castro's Cuba into the second decade of the C21st is powerful evidence that it is serving a deep political purpose.

The principles at the core of Operation Gladio include false flag atrocities committed to induce maximum public terror as part of a Strategy of Tension. This has been much discussed here on DPF.

The Bologna railway bombings in 1980, which killed 85 and wounded over 200, was blamed on the left-wing Red Brigades. In fact it was a Gladio Strategy of Tension operation, perpetrated by neofascist cut outs the Nuclei Armati Rivoluzionari (NAR, "Armed Revolutionary Nuclei").

The public execution of JFK was another such operation.

Everybody - at the risk of sounding pompous, please can we discuss the evidence, rigorously and robustly, and cut out the personal shit.

[Charles Drago]

Indeed, Jan.

I can recall my own nascent days in our larger "community" -- in particular, my "I've got it all figured out" pronouncements. Some of which were made, I'm embarassed to note, from some very prestigious lecterns.

It was George Michael Evica who, ever the consummate teacher and caring friend, gently yet powerfully suggested that I expand my study and deepen my thinking on the matters over which we pour and occasionally fulminate today.

I can cite a specific example: Some 18-or-so years ago, in Dallas, I was all hyped up about Lansdale as a Sponsor of the event. On and on I went until, almost off-handedly, Evica suggested that Lansdale just might have been a False Sponsor.

My ego immediately clicked on, and I was about to challenge him. But I nearly simultaneously understood -- or perhaps "felt" is the more accurate word -- his grander, more personal subtext.

My eyes, in that very instant, went from wide shut to wide open.

The superficial and underinformed nature of Morrow's arguments, it's safe to say, is not the problem.

[Jack White]

This forum ought not to become a place of single-minded
thought. It ought to have room for members to be WRONG
or OPPOSE conventional thought. Let's not stifle freedom of
expression as long as it is CIVIL. While I have great admiration
for Charles Drago and George Michael Evica, their word is not
holy writ. By all means, all should feel free to offer their ideas,
perhaps learn something, and we all should be open minded
enough to consider new thoughts.

My 2 cents.

Jack

[Phil Dragoo]

My Spanish teacher in 1961 Sra. Portilla recent graduate of Havana and emigre de Cuba told me, “Ah, Felipe, Fidel es muy malo, muy malo, es veddy, veddy bad man.”


Is it not key that Douglass uses Kennedy's own comment vis-a-vis likelihood of reality imitating art in a Seven Days In May coup—that hypothetical wherein the POTUS would commit a Bay of Pigs mistake, not once but three times.


Had Nixon been elected in 1960, perhaps he would have allowed the final B-26 raid on the three T-33s, and committed American military forces to the success of the mission.


Perhaps Nixon would have pursued the Vietnam War without hesitation.


It is, I believe, an established tenet of intelligent thought on the assassination that a prime factor in its motivation was to alter foreign policy.


At this point I must side with Charle's assertion that the maintenance of Cuba as a model of something (you may insert your own descriptor) rather than an aggressive action to change its regime has been the policy post BOP of the government of the United States.


But that is by way of addressing an item which just erupted in this discussion.


I would return to my understanding-in-formation of the broader implications of the public murder of the 35th president.


We have been instructed to accept that a single man without motive was in a position he did not occupy to operate a weapon he never owned to execute marksmanship beyond his ability to effect ballistics which defy physics.


I prefer to look upon that man as a serial agent of various intelligent agencies first as a radar operator and dangle, then a penetration agent, then an agent provocateur, an informer, a pawn, a patsy.


In Zen is the directive to not mistake the finger pointing at the moon for the moon.


Just because LBJ got to the White House and mooned us, does not mean he arranged the operation.


And it is titilating that Prouty and Krulak identify Lansdale in Dallas. And it is fascinating that Braden/Brading was arrested coming from the Dal-Tex Building.


But we are still on the midway and everyone is selling Assassin-On-A-Stick.


Carnies and shills and geeks, oh my.


Our friend in Army intelligence in Korea after the war establishing the Chinese order of battle commenting on how “dangerous” was this Kennedy.


And our friend who was in the Boston financial house summer of 1963 when LBJ backer and economic advisor Eliot Janeway came through to hiss a rehearsed warning “what a dangerous man this Kennedy is.”


All around were those operating as if Kennedy was a dead man walking.


Lodge behaving as a maverick before it was a term of pop art.


Ike warning of a military-industrial complex; then, after the fact, Truman lamenting the toothpaste was out of the tube.


Dulles mocking “that little Kennedy—he thought he was a god.”


Emory Roberts remarking Kennedy was “a traitor.”


Some cite Marcello's mouth.


Surely someone has salted the record with tantalizing bread crumbs.


I can accept the coincidence as an occasional occurrence.


But some of these coincidences are sheer delight.


George DeMohrenschildt sucks a rook rifle after a chat with Epstein and before one with Fonzi; and he chooses the day Charles Nicoletti shuffled off the mortal coil.


But the wreckage of terra cotta warriors must return us to the question whose arm swept the board, and who remains smiling in the chairs.


I echo Holmes to Watson, “I abhor stagnation; I crave mental exhultation.”


Never quite the last word, is it. They forecast we would tire before we finished: viz. Salandria et Dulles, “Let's watch Dancing With The Stars!”

[Charles Drago]

This forum ought not to become a place of single-minded
thought. It ought to have room for members to be WRONG
or OPPOSE conventional thought. Let's not stifle freedom of
expression as long as it is CIVIL. While I have great admiration
for Charles Drago and George Michael Evica, their word is not
holy writ. By all means, all should feel free to offer their ideas,
perhaps learn something, and we all should be open minded
enough to consider new thoughts.

My 2 cents.

Jack

As always, Jack, we're in agreement.

[Magda Hassan]

This forum ought not to become a place of single-minded
thought. It ought to have room for members to be WRONG
or OPPOSE conventional thought. Let's not stifle freedom of
expression as long as it is CIVIL. While I have great admiration
for Charles Drago and George Michael Evica, their word is not
holy writ. By all means, all should feel free to offer their ideas,
perhaps learn something, and we all should be open minded
enough to consider new thoughts.

My 2 cents.

Jack

As always, Jack, we're in agreement.

Thank you Jack. Well said! hakehands:

[Steve Duffy]

Phil, Wow. Just Wow.