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Article: How the Pentagon Broke the Deadlock over the START Treaty & Iran's Nuclear Ambitions at John Wheeler's Exp...
#1
You can view the page at https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/con...-s-Expense
Peter Presland

".....there is something far worse than Nazism, and that is the hubris of the Anglo-American fraternities, whose routine is to incite indigenous monsters to war, and steer the pandemonium to further their imperial aims"
Guido Preparata. Preface to 'Conjuring Hitler'[size=12][size=12]
"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied"
Claud Cockburn

[/SIZE][/SIZE]
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#2
Heavy stuff, if all correct. The only thing that just jumps out at me as unproven ability, is that to cause earthquakes. The amount of power needed for that simply surpasses by many orders of magnitude that which is available to humans, IMO. Even allowing for new secret programs. The physics just is too much of a stretch, at this time in human history. I think on can posit a similar story without the creation of any earthquake.
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#3
Peter Lemkin Wrote:Heavy stuff, if all correct. The only thing that just jumps out at me as unproven ability, is that to cause earthquakes. The amount of power needed for that simply surpasses by many orders of magnitude that which is available to humans, IMO. Even allowing for new secret programs. The physics just is too much of a stretch, at this time in human history. I think on can posit a similar story without the creation of any earthquake.

My thoughts too.

I correspond with Trowbridge quite a bit and have published his stuff on WikiSpooks. I queried him on the earthquakes stuff and I'm sure he won't mind me sharing his reply:

Me to Trowbridge Wrote:Whilst corresponding, I have to say I'm a skeptic in respect of US ability to cause earthquakes pretty much at will - indeed at all. I simply struggle to comprehend the technology that would be required. I'm not rubbishing the possibility, simply agnostic, that's all. What are your primary sources for such claims?

Trowbridge reply Wrote:I have no sources for my claims about individual earthquakes being caused by the Pentagon's NRO, only bits of evidence supplied by people like Professors Shou and J. Reece Roth, evidence found at the sites where they occurred, the kind of feedback I receive where critics make all kinds of absurd claims, especially that I am claiming all earthquakes are now made by man, etc.

All the earthquakes I am concerned about occurred at just the right time and place for America's warmongers, there was evidence of one building up by the cloud emitting from its ultimate epicenter, there were underground chambers there - qanats, caves or man-made chambers like test shafts or underground establishments like in the Sichuan one that would allow easy entry by laser beams - the earthquakes' epicenter was only few kilometers from the surface, indicating that it started there, at night when laser satellites can perform best without discovery, no official comment about it all since SDI started almost thirty years ago now as if America can simply waste hundreds of billions of dollars just for the fun of it, etc.

Just how much of this before critics become agnostics, and agnostic become believers?
Peter Presland

".....there is something far worse than Nazism, and that is the hubris of the Anglo-American fraternities, whose routine is to incite indigenous monsters to war, and steer the pandemonium to further their imperial aims"
Guido Preparata. Preface to 'Conjuring Hitler'[size=12][size=12]
"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied"
Claud Cockburn

[/SIZE][/SIZE]
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#4
I agree entirely about the caveats above.

I strongly suspect that several countries possess the ability to manipulate both the weather and major geological events such as earthquakes. However, it is not yet proven that, for instance, the US is creating earthquakes against geopolitical competitors.

Much of the technology may derive from "Tesla physics", and both the Nazis and the Russians had a theoretical and practical lead in this area in the mid-C20th. So, if America is creating earthquakes, are - say - the Russians and Chinese retaliating in kind?

I will also add a caveat of my own. If I inderstand correctly, Trowbridge H Ford is claiming that Iranian intelligence assassinated Cheney apparatchik John Wheeler.

Quote:Once the earthquake occurred, Savak agents, it seems, got on Wheeler's trail, and once they caught up with him in Wilmington after Christmas, they drugged him, and then stole his Blackberry, brief case, and mobile phone to check if they had the right man. Wheeler, of course, was desperately looking for what had been stolen when he regained some kind of composure in the hope of preventing its disclosure to America's enemies, especially Iran, explaining why he was increasingly disoriented and disshevled in the process while refusing to seek any police help. Once the agents determined that Wheeler was their man, they captured him again, probably at his own residence in New Castle where they tortured him until he had revealed eveything he knew about, particularly, it seems, information that he had hidden under the kitchen floor. Then the agents apparently slit his throat, and dropped his body into a dumpster which would soon take it to Wilmington's landfill where it would disappear forever.

First off, I don't particularly buy this.

Second, for a supposed intelligence insider, calling C21st Iranian intelligence by the name SAVAK is historically illiterate.

SAVAK was the Shah's secret police, created by British and American intelligence, and hated by the Islamic government. Today, as far as I can tell, Iran's secret service more generally goes by the names of MISIRI, SAVAMA or VEVAK.

SAVAK is a term of abuse to modern Iranians.
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#5
I do think that Peter Presland should also have included my critical comments about John Young before he passed along my explanation of why I know that the Pentagon has the ability to create man-made earthquakes.

The best confirmation of it is the fact that Cryptome.org belatedly posted the 16-part series that I wrote about it during 2009-10 - what he must have gotten even more heat from viewers than what my article has drawn here. Young was persuaded to post the series in aiding and abetting the Pentagon and CIA attempt to prove that I was either working for a foreign intelligence agency, especially Iran's, or that I was a leaker of secret information from some spy, probably Tehran's.

Young had even spurred me on in such endeavors by meeting me in NYC in June 2009, warning me that the Agency was again out to get me - what it had done back in Portugal during 1995-96 when it tried to make poisoning me to death for criticising Clinton's treatment of former President Nixon, Al 'Deep Throat Haig, and former DCI Richard Helms at the White House look like a natural death.

Of course, Young's warning just pushed me harder on the matter, and what Washington hoped to fix me up with, like Amir Aldabili, when I came the States in late August for a seven-week stay, near where it would be easy for me to snoop around Livermore National Laboratory and Thomas Reed's residence in Healdsburg. Young refused to see me either coming or going for fear of being drawn into the entrapment, and not wanting to take up any time while in NYC so I would more likely visit the Iranian Legation to the UN.

In short, I know that this confirms what I claim, and if they had been successful in countering, I would have been locked up for the rest of my life.

And I do find it funny that critics here only talk about earthquakes being made in ways my explanation avoids, and that I am insulting the Iranian intelligence service - what I consulted when dealing with Washington's attempts to entrap me - when I called it Savak, implying only that its network going back to the Shah's time must be the base for murdering its enemies, especially covert operators like John Wheeler III.
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#6
Hello Mr. Ford.

Can you provide us with evidence supporting your allegation that Savak was responsible for the death of Wheeler please?

I'm with Jan on this, as you may have seen from a post I made about this on another thread in this forum and so I would be very anxious to see how this stacks up.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#7
David Guyatt Wrote:Hello Mr. Ford.

Can you provide us with evidence supporting your allegation that Savak was responsible for the death of Wheeler please?

I'm with Jan on this, as you may have seen from a post I made about this on another thread in this forum and so I would be very anxious to see how this stacks up.

Hello David Guyatt,

While you are entitled to be as suspicious of me as you want. I shall not take you seriously until you provide an example of my "mudding the waters," and the slightest bit of evidence that I am apparently an American member of the SMOM, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

I have never been the slightest supporter of these Catholic looneys, much less a member. In fact, I have never been a Catholic, only having taught at a Catholic college when the Jesuits were going soft on continuing the hopeless, unnecessary war in Vietnam. And I forced my early retirement from it in 1986 when Catholic youths, thanks to two ROTC units on the Holy Cross campus, were becoming real crusaders.

For my thoughts on the scum who were leading the fight, you might find my article about Al 'Deep Throat' Haig of interest:

http://codshit.blogspot.com/2004/02/how-...chard.html

Once you provide this requested material, I shall provide yours. If not, forget it.
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#8
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:
David Guyatt Wrote:Hello Mr. Ford.

Can you provide us with evidence supporting your allegation that Savak was responsible for the death of Wheeler please?

I'm with Jan on this, as you may have seen from a post I made about this on another thread in this forum and so I would be very anxious to see how this stacks up.

Hello David Guyatt,

While you are entitled to be as suspicious of me as you want. I shall not take you seriously until you provide an example of my "mudding the waters," and the slightest bit of evidence that I am apparently an American member of the SMOM, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

I am never been the slightest supporter of these Catholic looneys, much less a member. In fact, I have never been a Catholic, only having taught at a Catholic College when the Jesuits were going soft on continuing the hopeless, unnecessary war in Vietnam. And I forced my early retirement from it in 1986 when Catholic youths, thanks to two ROTC units on the Holy Cross campus, were becoming real crusaders.

For my thoughts on the scum who were leading the fight, you might find my article about Al 'Deep Throat' Haig of interest:

http://codshit.blogspot.com/2004/02/how-...chard.html

Once you provide this requested material, I shall provide yours. If not, forget it.

I am not aware I have named you as being a member of SMOM?

Why would I? I don't know a thing about you other than something I read this morning that you are, apparently, a former CIC officer and a professor living in Sweden - neither of which I know to be true. Or untrue for that matter.

I also note you haven't answered my question and seem intent to deflect that question by now placing the emphasis on me to answer yours.

Very well, I have no problem with that. If you read what I said again, it states that I have a "suspicion" that you are "muddying the waters", which is only what I believe. But is just that, a suspicion, an opinion, a feeling, a sense of all not being well - that you make unwarranted statements dressed as facts that may not be supported by any evidence evidence. This is what I mean. I hope that clarifies the situation for you.

Having answered your question I wish again to ask you to answer mine. What evidence do you have that Savak was responsible for the death of Wheeler?

And allow me then to pose yet another question which further flutters my concerns about your accuracy. In an earlier Blog you wrote about the death of former CIA DCI, William Colby, under the caption:

Why America's NSA and Britain's GCHQ Spooks Had Gareth Williams Assassinated

Part 1 - background.

In this you state:

Quote:The biggest unexplained assassination, apparently by NSA group 1-3, was the killing of former DCI William Colby in April 1996. Interesting that Bamford makes no mention of him in his books because he proved the biggest problem for the eavesdropping agency, as he was the one who exposed not only its illegal spying on Americans, especially MH-Chaos, but also the plots to get rid of Castro to the Church Committee - what led President Ford to fire him.(22) The Colby murder was not a simple act of vengeance, but the removal of a most influential critic if and when NSA decided again to eavesdrop on America whatever the legal situation. Bamford got around the problems by making out that NSA was responsible to the Defense Department when it really was officially under the control of CIA. Colby's death triggered as many false claims as that of the recent killing of GCHQ/MI6 agent Gareth Williams, and apparently for the same purpose - shutting up and getting back at troublemakers.(23)

(my bolding).

The referenced footnote 23 links to Zalin Grant's essay on "Who Murdered the CIA Chief" (see: http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/colby.htm ) which I have to say is the most meticulous investigation of Colby's death that I have ever read.

But at no point does Mr. Grant state that the killers may have been NSA. In fact, he appears to suggest that they were enemies of his, from his CIA days - possibly due to his outspokenness to the Church Committee etc. In fact, Mr. Grant makes a point of saying that Colby had testified 56 times before Congress, and:

Quote:Colby had got rid of a lot of guys in the clandestine service at CIA. *I'd talked to ex-CIA officers who hated his guts.* Even Lou Conein, one of the best-known CIA operatives in Vietnam, told me he believed Colby had destroyed the agency.* And Conein, who knew Colby for many years, liked him.* Colby had enemies coming from the Right and the Left.

Colby realized, of course, that he was in danger of being killed at any time.*


At the end of his essay, Mr. Grant states

Quote:How the Killers Got Away With It

Just as I'd thought, the killers didn't make many mistakes. The first was unavoidableKevin Akers--but with luck they got away with it.* I'd say there were from three to five of them.* Two on a boat, maybe two or three who went to his house in a car around 8:30 p.m., at nightfall.* The two in the car made Colby empty his pockets so if they were stopped he would have no ID to back up his claim that he was an ex-CIA director and these thugs were officers he'd fired. One of the men put the ladder in the water and took the life jacket.* Then they drove to the end of Rock Point Road to rendezvous with the boat.

(my bolding)

Mr. Grant's comments above makes it sound like vengeance to me - whereas you say it is not a simple act of vengeance?

So the question I have is what evidence is there linking Colby's death with the NSA other than in your mind - because the linked essay certainly does not hint at NSA involvement but rather hints at some sort of CIA responsibility?
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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#9
David Guyatt Wrote:
Trowbridge H. Ford Wrote:
David Guyatt Wrote:Hello Mr. Ford.

Can you provide us with evidence supporting your allegation that Savak was responsible for the death of Wheeler please?

I'm with Jan on this, as you may have seen from a post I made about this on another thread in this forum and so I would be very anxious to see how this stacks up.

Hello David Guyatt,

While you are entitled to be as suspicious of me as you want. I shall not take you seriously until you provide an example of my "mudding the waters," and the slightest bit of evidence that I am apparently an American member of the SMOM, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

I am never been the slightest supporter of these Catholic looneys, much less a member. In fact, I have never been a Catholic, only having taught at a Catholic College when the Jesuits were going soft on continuing the hopeless, unnecessary war in Vietnam. And I forced my early retirement from it in 1986 when Catholic youths, thanks to two ROTC units on the Holy Cross campus, were becoming real crusaders.

For my thoughts on the scum who were leading the fight, you might find my article about Al 'Deep Throat' Haig of interest:

http://codshit.blogspot.com/2004/02/how-...chard.html

Once you provide this requested material, I shall provide yours. If not, forget it.

I am not aware I have named you as being a member of SMOM?

Why would I? I don't know a thing about you other than something I read this morning that you are, apparently, a former CIC officer and a professor living in Sweden - neither of which I know to be true. Or untrue for that matter.

I also note you haven't answered my question and seem intent to deflect that question by now placing the emphasis on me to answer yours.

Very well, I have no problem with that. If you read what I said again, it states that I have a "suspicion" that you are "muddying the waters", which is only what I believe. But is just that, a suspicion, an opinion, a feeling, a sense of all not being well - that you make unwarranted statements dressed as facts that may not be supported by any evidence evidence. This is what I mean. I hope that clarifies the situation for you.

Having answered your question I wish again to ask you to answer mine. What evidence do you have that Savak was responsible for the death of Wheeler?

And allow me then to pose yet another question which further flutters my concerns about your accuracy. In an earlier Blog you wrote about the death of former CIA DCI, William Colby, under the caption:

Why America's NSA and Britain's GCHQ Spooks Had Gareth Williams Assassinated

Part 1 - background.

In this you state:

Quote:The biggest unexplained assassination, apparently by NSA group 1-3, was the killing of former DCI William Colby in April 1996. Interesting that Bamford makes no mention of him in his books because he proved the biggest problem for the eavesdropping agency, as he was the one who exposed not only its illegal spying on Americans, especially MH-Chaos, but also the plots to get rid of Castro to the Church Committee - what led President Ford to fire him.(22) The Colby murder was not a simple act of vengeance, but the removal of a most influential critic if and when NSA decided again to eavesdrop on America whatever the legal situation. Bamford got around the problems by making out that NSA was responsible to the Defense Department when it really was officially under the control of CIA. Colby's death triggered as many false claims as that of the recent killing of GCHQ/MI6 agent Gareth Williams, and apparently for the same purpose - shutting up and getting back at troublemakers.(23)

(my bolding).

The referenced footnote 23 links to Zalin Grant's essay on "Who Murdered the CIA Chief" (see: http://www.pythiapress.com/wartales/colby.htm ) which I have to say is the most meticulous investigation of Colby's death that I have ever read.

But at no point does Mr. Grant state that the killers may have been NSA. In fact, he appears to suggest that they were enemies of his, from his CIA days - possibly due to his outspokenness to the Church Committee etc. In fact, Mr. Grant makes a point of saying that Colby had testified 56 times before Congress, and:

Quote:Colby had got rid of a lot of guys in the clandestine service at CIA. *I'd talked to ex-CIA officers who hated his guts.* Even Lou Conein, one of the best-known CIA operatives in Vietnam, told me he believed Colby had destroyed the agency.* And Conein, who knew Colby for many years, liked him.* Colby had enemies coming from the Right and the Left.

Colby realized, of course, that he was in danger of being killed at any time.*


At the end of his essay, Mr. Grant states

Quote:How the Killers Got Away With It

Just as I'd thought, the killers didn't make many mistakes. The first was unavoidableKevin Akers--but with luck they got away with it.* I'd say there were from three to five of them.* Two on a boat, maybe two or three who went to his house in a car around 8:30 p.m., at nightfall.* The two in the car made Colby empty his pockets so if they were stopped he would have no ID to back up his claim that he was an ex-CIA director and these thugs were officers he'd fired. One of the men put the ladder in the water and took the life jacket.* Then they drove to the end of Rock Point Road to rendezvous with the boat.

(my bolding)

Mr. Grant's comments above makes it sound like vengeance to me - whereas you say it is not a simple act of vengeance?

So the question I have is what evidence is there linking Colby's death with the NSA other than in your mind - because the linked essay certainly does not hint at NSA involvement but rather hints at some sort of CIA responsibility?

You simply flunked the test, David, deciding that the best approach when one has no defense is to go on the offense with another request.

You added to Peter Presland's post about my article regarding the murder of John Wheeler by claiming at 07:29 PM yesterday that it may well be "purposeful muddying of the water."

You then went on to suggest that I was playing some kind of game with apparent fellow SMOM member Hans Blix: concluding, "However, having players play opposite each other even when they are actually on the same side dates back into the mists of time."

I don't like people implying that I am a covert agent, playing games with others to help promote disruptive disinformation.

I shall explain the murder of Wheeler in more detail on codshit.com, and you can do what you want with it.
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#10
Thanks for the clarification Mr. Ford.

But you haven't answered my first question have you? Nor the second. Nor a third, were I to ask it. Nor a fourth. And there are at least that many unanswered questions I could ask. But I wont.

Because I suspect you won't answer any of them will you?

And I suspect we both know why that is.

So forgive me, but I don't believe I'll be spending any of my time at the appropriately named Codshit.com., on any of your future or past writings, because they are unsupported, un-caveated personal interpretations of events that don't bear scrutiny.

Imo, of course.

David

Edited as follows:

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/sho...idel/page5

Quote:Yesterday 10:33 AM #46 Peter Presland

Trowbridge Ford's latest posted today as an article on DPF CMS is relevant to this thread.

Yesterday 07:29 PM #47 David Guyatt

Thanks Peter.

I have suspicions about Trowbridge Ford that extend to purposeful muddying of the water. I can't say that Savak didn't kill Wheeler, but I mightily doubt it.

Btw, in passing I note that chief U N WEapons Inspector, Hans Blix is named as being a knight of SMOM in THIS website.

Is it true? I don't know - it would require a trip to Rome and the Vatican to get a lost from them. On the other hand he might be American SMOM? Or not SMOM at all.

However, having players play opposite each other even when they are actually on the same side dates back into the mists of time.

There is a certain logic in supposing he may be part of that Order.

The "Btw in passing," signifying a change of subject.

Facts, Mr. Ford. Hard inconvenient facts.

So very sorry, but you're not my centre of the universe, I'm afraid.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
Carl Jung - Aion (1951). CW 9, Part II: P.14
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