Saint Fletcher the Obscure

[Peter Presland]

Download The Secret Team
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3329881/Co...cret-Team-1973
Sorry the secret team has been deleted, perhaps it may be elsewhere on the web...?b

there is one here free download but i do not know anything about the site...b...

http://fliiby.com/file/519943/b42wdpwkak.html

Also available as a single pdf here

[Jim DiEugenio]

Seamus has done a lot of work on the newspaper story since he lives in New Zealand.

I think the general claim is correct about when the story appeared.

Dave Perry did a hit piece on Prouty about this issue.

[Albert Doyle]

If Prouty saw a black ops defamation package already in print before Oswald was even charged then that tells you all you need to know and there's no reason for not moving forward with it as evidence CIA premeditated JFK's assassination.

[Adrian Mack]

Prouty also authored Hubbard's "official biography".

Moreover:

It is fair to say that he holds unconventional views on a variety of topics. He claims, for instance, that President Franklin D. Roosevelt was assassinated; that the 1978 Jonestown mass suicide was perpetrated by the CIA; that oil is not a fossil fuel but is a in fact a plentiful natural resource covertly monopolised by the oil companies, with the aid of the Israelis. He is perhaps best known for his claims about the 1965 Kennedy assassination and was the prototype for the "Mr. X" character in Oliver Stone's film JFK. He also spoken at conferences of the Institute for Historical Review, a far-Right Holocaust denial group.

For not especially clear reasons, 2 Scientology's Freedom magazine has given Col Prouty a platform for the last two decades. Between 1985 and 1987, Freedom published a 19-part series by Col Prouty to which (according to the magazine) "provided a unique and highly informative view of the events which led up to the Vietnam War." More recently, Freedom has covered his claims about the Jonestown affair. As well as being an "expert witness" retained by Scientology's lawyers, Prouty has described himself as "an editorial adviser to publications of the Church of Scientology".

I haven't read Prouty's JFK book, although I gather that he either deliberately or mistakenly cites Leonard Lewin's satirical Report from Iron Mountain as authentic. In fact, I think this line is from Lewin, via "Mr. X": "The organizing principle of any society is for war. The basic authority of a modern state over its people resides in its war powers."

I'm no expert on L Fletcher Prouty, although I've noted his gift for freely saying precisely what many of us would like to hear without the retaliation or consequences one would normally expect from the all-powerful Secret Team-types he's uncovering.

I'd add that I can totally ignore Prouty's contribution to JFK and MLK research without shaking my fairly commensurate opinions one bit.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Thanks to all for some fascinating posts.

Like most here, I consider Leroy Fletcher Prouty a bona fide trail-blazer in exposing both the techniques of covert operations and the big picture details of many specific covert operations.

As a filmmaker and journalist (contradictory and complementary vocations), the Donald Sutherland "Mr X" role has always struck me as dramatically and literally true. True not at the dotted 'i' and crossed 't' level, but at the level of metaphor and resonance. Crucial insider information was channelled to a key investigator at the precise moment when it could become public record, and thereafter take on a life and momentum of its own.

In short, I consider L Fletcher Prouty's information and insights to be fundamentally valuable, even if details of specific claims are ultimately found to be exaggerated or even false.

I posted the supposed Prouty letter on L Ron Hubbard and Scientology because I was interested in whether it was genuine and, if so, what light it might throw on the man himself.

David Guyatt and I have independently investigated Scientology and L Ron, and discussed this many times here on DPF.

At the fundamental level, my own view is that the Church of Scientology itself was an intelligence operation. Its cult status enabled covert human experimentation to be undertaken by intelligence agencies on a plausibly deniable basis.

However, Scientology's house organs, such as Freedom magazine, were one of the major sources of exposure of the crimes of "MK-ULTRA" (in the broad sense to refer to covert mind control programmes), and particularly the use of narco-hypno-trauma to erase memory, and to implant programming.

I'm with John Judge and Jim Hougan in unequivocally declaring Jonestown to be a covert, CIA-led, intelligence operation involving terminal human experimentation. The fact that Scientology shares this conclusion gives me pause for thought, but no more. The possibility that L Fletcher Prouty shares this conclusion is intriguing.

If the letter in my post #2 in this thread is genuine, then Prouty appears to be both familiar with, and sympathetic to, L Ron Hubbard and the Church of Scientology.

I note also that Hubbard was allegedly ONI.

This does not discredit Prouty in my judgement. A familiarity and sympathy with a subject does not make one a true believer.

However, it is certainly relevant information in considering L Fletcher Prouty in his entirety.

Finally, again with the working assumption that the letter is genuine, I must draw attention to the following statement by Prouty:

Unlike MI-5's Peter Wright, Ron Hubbard was of the old school. He never revealed important intelligence sources and methods.

Did L Fletcher Prouty consider himself "of the old school"?

If so, the implications are immense......

[Keith Millea]

Did L Fletcher Prouty consider himself "of the old school"?

Did L Fletcher Prouty consider himself "a member of the Church of Scientology"?

[David Guyatt]

I was corresponding with Prouty before he died on another subject altogether. And like many here I admired his books, all of which I've read. And also for being, as Jan said, a "trail blazer". He was certainly that. He brought many insights that literally "opened my eyes" to what we might call the "big game" run by the "high cabal".

So much for my prior myopia.

I wonder about the veracity of that letter. I really do. Were I to have the time I think I might fact check every single item that can be fact checked. And I would undertake a study of its composition, syntax and general style comparing it to the books he wrote.

Because my opinion of L Ron Hubbard doesn't run at all high. Not in the slightest.

And I would also be alarmed if Prouty was, as it seems he is doing, implicitly supporting MKULTRA operations. My gut feeling is that he would shy far away from that activity; that it would be anathema to him. Particularly so in his later years after he had stood up to be counted on so many other important subjects. It simply doesn't jibe, imo.

So, in conclusion, I would need stringent proof that the letter was true.

And if proved so I would need a hefty drink to calm my nerves and comfort my shame at having allowed myself to have been conned.

[Jan Klimkowski]

I wonder about the veracity of that letter. I really do. Were I to have the time I think I might fact check every single item that can be fact checked. And I would undertake a study of its composition, syntax and general style comparing it to the books he wrote.

Because my opinion of L Ron Hubbard doesn't run at all high. Not in the slightest.

And I would also be alarmed if Prouty was, as it seems he is doing, implicitly supporting MKULTRA operations. My gut feeling is that he would shy far away from that activity; that it would be anathema to him. Particularly so in his later years after he had stood up to be counted on so many other important subjects. It simply doesn't jibe, imo.

So, in conclusion, I would need stringent proof that the letter was true.

And if proved so I would need a hefty drink to calm my nerves and comfort my shame at having allowed myself to have been conned.

David - I share your reservations, and reiterate that the authenticity of the letter is not proven.

I will add some further context from the site at which I found it, the url of which I included in post #2:

http://web.ncf.ca/cj871/prouty.html

L. Fletcher Prouty's Letter to Miller's Publisher
The following was posted to alt.religion.scientology by Scientology spokesman Andrew Milne in early 1996, in response to a review of Bare-faced Messiah posted by Martin Poulter. I have added HTML tags as I saw fit; however, I have made no content changes. Any spelling, typographical or stylistic errors are Milne's or Prouty's, as the case may be.

Disclaimer: The views of Milne and Prouty do not reflect my own. Andrew Milne proved himself on countless occasions to be a consummate liar, easily refuted, until he ducked out of a.r.s. Having read one of Prouty's books on JFK, I find him unscholarly and inaccurate, to say the least. Let the reader beware.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: UK MEDIA 1987: Review of Bare Faced Messiah
From: milne@crl.com (Andrew Milne)
Date: 1996/03/19
Message-Id: <4in7j5$kb6@crl2.crl.com>
References: <DoIsD0.Eo2@uns.bris.ac.uk>
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [Login: guest]
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology

Martin Poulter (plmlp@mail.bris.ac.uk) wrote:

: Sunday Times
: 15 Nov 87
: Books: Face to face with fanaticism /
: Review of 'Bare-Faced Messiah' by Russell Miller

: By BEN HOOBERMAN

: BARE-FACED MESSIAH by Russell Miller/Michael Joseph Pounds 12.95 pp390

The following is a letter written to Miller's publishers in 1987, showing the venality and falsity of Miller's book.

So, the letter was provided by a "Scientology spokesman".

However, the Church of Scientology is adamant that both Jim Garrison and Fletcher Prouty did have dealings with them.

This is from their "Freedom" magazine website:

Means of Speaking Out

The late Judge Jim Garrison, a central figure in the movie "JFK", chose Freedom in 1986 as his forum to end years of media silence. As New Orleans district attorney from 1962 to 1974, Garrison conducted an extensive investigation in the late 1960s of the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Freedom published articles by Judge Garrison conveying his views and evidence of events and circumstances surrounding JFK's assassination and of the part the killing played in a transformation of America's government and future.

Between 1985 and 1987, Freedom also published a 19-part series by Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty, whose 30 years of close work with U.S. intelligence services included an eight-year tenure as chief of special operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and a similar capacity with the Office of Special Operations of the Office of the Secretary of Defense. The series provided a unique and highly informative view of the events which led up to the Vietnam War. The articles also provided seminal material for the movie "JFK," for which Colonel Prouty also served as consultant.

http://30th.freedommag.org/page29.htm

I have not seen any copies of Prouty's "19-part series" allegedly published between 1985-87 in "Freedom". However, back issues must exist somewhere.

And here are the comments allegedly given by Prouty to "Freedom" on Jonestown:

Mass Murder

Although many others lost their lives on November 18, 1978, according to Dr. C. Leslie Mootoo, then chief medical examiner of Guyana, the overwhelming majority of the deaths at Jonestown were murders, not suicides.

Dr. Mootoo, the government's top pathologist and the first physician on the scene, told Freedom that many had died from injections of cyanide. After 32 hours of nonstop work in stifling heat, amid decaying flesh, in Mootoo's words, "We gave up." By that time, 187 bodies killed by injections had been examined by Mootoo and his team. Victims had been injected in portions of their bodies they could not have reached themselves, such as between the shoulder blades or in the back of an upper arm. "Those who were injecting them knew what they were doing," Mootoo said.

Many others had been shot. Charles Huff, a former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces in Panama, was one of the seven Green Berets who were the first American troops on the scene following the massacre. He told Freedom, "We saw many bullet wounds as well as wounds from crossbow bolts."

Huff noted that those with fatal bullet or bolt wounds appeared to have been running toward the jungle that surrounded Jonestown. Corroborating the information from Dr. Mootoo, Huff said that the adults who had not been shot had been killed by injections between the shoulder blades. The killers escaped before the arrival of Huff and his team.

U.S. Air Force Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty, who worked closely in key positions with the CIA and the Joint Chiefs of Staff for many years, told Freedom that Leo Ryan had moved in too close to certain skeletons that could never be safely disturbed. A relentless and uncompromising investigator, nothing could stop Ryanshort of violence. But how could such a high-profile personality be eliminated without bringing down upon the perpetrators an investigation to end all investigations?

A very real possibility is that by making the assassination part of an even larger catastrophe, the central drama itselfthat of a courageous individual blocked from probing reports of illegal, unconstitutional, government-sponsored psychiatric "mind-control" activitieswas obscured.

Colonel Prouty noted evidence of the involvement of a larger force in the operation: "The Joint Chiefs of Staff had prepared air shipments of hundreds of body bags. They didn't normally keep that many in any one place. Within hours, they began to shuttle them down to Georgetown, the main city. They couldn't possibly have done that without prior knowledge that it was going to happen. It shows that there was prior planning."

Prouty said, "We would provide the agency with the things they were requesting, without any questions. That's the way the business works."

At Jonestown, he said, the JCS provided the body bags, the airlift and all the rest on a timetable that shows advance knowledge. "The JCS wouldn't have moved at all on their own," he said. "They didn't give a damn about Jonestown." These and other unusual events, he noted, "are the kinds of earmarks that define the hand of American intelligence."

Nearly two decades after the death of Congressman Leo Ryan, America is still owed a definitive explanation for the many unresolved questions surrounding the tragedy. To begin, all documents and records from all relevant agencies should be released in full. Only then might the full truth be known.

Revisiting the Jonestown Tragedy - Freedom Magazine: The Voice of the Church of Scientology

http://investigations.freedommag.org/inv...940101.htm

There are several threads on Jonestown here at DPF, which include the research of John Judge and Jim Hougan. My judgement of the comments attributed to Prouty in the "Freedom" Jonestown article is that they are entirely consistent with the evidence and an objective interpretation of that evidence.

[Jan Klimkowski]

Prouty also authored Hubbard's "official biography".

There appear to be multiple links for this - but I'm yet to find a meaningful review of L Fletcher Prouty's tome on L Ron Hubbard.

And yes - the "L" thing is really beginning to bug me. :poke:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/L-Ron-Hubbards-A...088404274X

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/71668...-biography

http://www.paperbackswap.com/L-Ron-Hubba...88404274X/

[Bernice Moore]

dawn quote''I have always been a true believer re Prouty, but...this is an interesting thing to consider. That letter is damn weird. Beyond weird. I too had never seen it before.
''...Nor I, Jan may i ask, would you please provide a link to the letter, where is it from...thanks..b