The Sponsor/Facilitator/Mechanic Model Applied to 9/11

[Greg Burnham]

As always, Albert, I struggle to find common language, experience, and education on which to base our communications.

As always, I fail.

And yet I can't resist: The unseen, remembered is far more powerful a force on human imagination and behavior than is the seen.

That's OK Charles. If you lack the education I can explain it to you slowly...

That's NOT "ok" Albert. That of which one is unaware because their eyes simply have not seen it does not negate its existence. Indeed, it has
always been "the unknowns" [read:the not understood things] of human experience that have consistently thwarted our security and our progress.
We're not just speaking of politics here, but of every aspect of the human condition. There was a time when what seems so common place today
was not. There are things considered "obvious" today that were not so obvious only a few decades ago. Simple things. Concepts like: "How germs
are spread." These were huge BREAK THROUGHS then, but are within every common man's knowledge today. However, THAT they were then unseen,
unknown, and tiny [seemingly insignificant] did not negate the fact of their own existence nor did it mitigate the effect of same on our own existence.
Germs devastated Europe, North America, South America...everywhere --- BEOFRE they were even conceptualized!

Indeed, the recondite always trumps the obvious.

[Phil Dragoo]

Albert

Zionist neo-con--not helpful in describing the current Hussein-Hillary Arab Spring into Winter of War permutation of the business model.

And about that hole in the Capitol dome--as hated as Congress is by all sectors of the electorate, I posit such a hole would have been cheered--

--precisely as when the Martians of Independence Day razed the White House.

I share your distaste with the new architecture but the truly evil cannot be seen.

Hussein has continued the NSA's inexorable march to digital omniscience.

There is nothing left of the Bill of Rights.

Any person on earth is subject to a death sentence by this or any subsequent POTUS.

It was trumpeted that January 20, 2009 at noon we were rid of the zionist neocons.

Yet we are never rid of the Unspeakable.

It controls our destiny through claymation.

Politicians with feet of clay.

Such an economic collapse devours the horizon as to swallow any "American" century without a ripple.

Letterman was Broad Ripple Class of '65, as lily-white as The Riviera Club.

Everyone into the pool.

With the Russian sub.

Why, it's a Red October after all.

[Albert Doyle]

Albert

Zionist neo-con--not helpful in describing the current Hussein-Hillary Arab Spring into Winter of War permutation of the business model.

And "Capitalism's Invisible Army" (CIA) is the private security force of that corporate reich. The arab springs are classic plausibly deniable CIA-instigated regime changes typically disguised as domestic insurgencies. I'll leave you guess who those revolutions best serve.

Hussein has continued the NSA's inexorable march to digital omniscience.

Amen. We're probably some of their main subjects of interest as we type.

It was trumpeted that January 20, 2009 at noon we were rid of the zionist neocons.

I guess there is merit in the suggestion that the deep sponsors possess supranational interests beyond the zionist, communist, terrorist, democratic forms they shapeshift into as fronts for their main purposes. Not entirely rid-of however as the arab springs and saber rattling over Iran shows.

[Albert Doyle]

I don't necessarily disagree. There's no doubt the interests and purpose of the sponsors would be best served by having the Towers fall in a London Blitz-type disaster full of dust clouds. I mean it's great deep poetry but I guess my point is it still has to be connected to reality. I watched close-ups of the Tower collapses on You-Tube and as far as I could see the collapses both occurred right at the impact/fire points. For those collapses to have been triggered by pre-placed thermite devices they would have needed to be placed in the exact spot of the collapse. It isn't a coincidence that the obvious breaking point of the collapse occurred exactly at the fire spots. The way the Tower was designed with an inner and outer frame, if the thermite had been burned at a lower floor you would have seen a buckling there when it gave, or even a break and collapse of the floor sections at that level. You didn't. Also, there were firefighter personnel at those lower floors who would have announced a serious thermite fire at their level if it had occurred. Another thing is the fact the south Tower went first even though it was hit last. If we had Fetzerian spooks controlling the demolition it doesn't make sense that they would destroy the south Tower first if they were trying to mimic a natural cause. So even though there's no doubt a total collapse would best serve all deep interests, it still has to be connected to a feasible cause in reality. These deep political arguments about the total collapse and its psychological effect kind of suggest and assume a deliberately-caused act. Well deliberate in this case requires the thermite pre-arrangement. While I wouldn't put it past them to plan such thermite devices, I remain agnostic as to their actual existence.

[Jeffrey Orling]

The argument for manipulating 9/11 into a narrative that suited the powers that be.. MIC, and the national security state makes perfect sense and there would be no need to engage in a massive conspiracy. Spinning can be a sort of conspiracy in rewriting history... and that's pretty common... certainly as it pertains to American History.

My sense is that this is a tactic of the deep state.

The case for pre planted explosive to destroy all three towers is a harder pill to swallow though it does have an internal logic to it... a massive false flag and all the evidence is destroyed... the so called perfect crime. In the 911 WTC event the matter is fogged because no one has seen any buildings of this size collapse or be CD'ed and so no one has planned one let alone knows for sure what it would look like.

I personally don't think the psychological impact would have been much different if the towers did not fall... from the perspective of a real terrorists or a false flagger. The total destruction took more lives and the property destruction was more extensive... but I suspect the buildings would never have been occupied after being hit by hijacked commercial jets... and the call for revenge would have been just as fierce... the racism just as overt and the acquiescence about war just the same, the patriotism just as irrational.

I imagine that if this had been a hijacking and hit of the towers the same voices in the media and inside the beltway would be demanding war and wanting more freedom to snoop and torture and whatever fascists want.

You can witness revisionism real time as we gin up for war with Iran. What will be the incident that launches a thousand ships? Real or memorex? If memorex works why wait for or make a real one? The neocons knew they needed a new Pearl Harbor... they know an attack on American was all that was needed to launch any war. They certainly couldn't go to congress and ask for a declaration of war because they wanted the oil... could they? Any excuse would do and so one could argue as I have tried that their buds inside the machine just paved the way for some crazies to fly some planes or be blamed for it.. and that's ALL they needed. Why go through the complexity of lacing 3 towers with explosives to make them LOOK like collapses... and then haul off all the evidence of the explosives? These guys haven't been able to win a war against a third world country in half a century despite throwing a few trillion at the job.

Why did the towers have to fall?

[Dawn Meredith]

Charles,

This is an interesting criticism. I am not especially interested in the study of deep politics. I am not even sure what you mean by that. I assume it is a view of the world which sees everything (almost) as directed by the hidden *deep state*. I'm probably wrong. If you want to explain it in a paragraph of two I would be interested.

What I have done when I venture into *politics* and the behavior of political forces around the world is take a more cause and effect / stimulus response approach. Party A treats parties B like shit and B kicks back. Why A behaves as it does may be for multiple reasons... racism, or that B happens to be in the way of some economic agenda and so B gets it on the chin. Or perhaps B is used to acheive A's agenda as in slavery.

I see the MIC as driving much of the agenda for the USA and the USA dominates the world these days. The capitalist system seems to support and or be swept up in the empire agenda... that is let's make money any way we can...

When I examine 9/11 I look at the technical aspects of the destruction and I see that the uusual suspects spun the hell out of the event to advance the MIC agenda. As I don't see evidence of CD as others think exists... I dismiss the MIHOP and probably the deep state frame. I think most will agree that the 911 was used to gin up war in the ME and it a bogus case.

Color me naive.

This is not a technical forum... and so perhaps this is not the place to argue physics and engineering... disciplines that Fetzer seems to be not very conversant with but that doesn't seem to prevent him from passing himself off as some sort of expert on technical matters. I think he makes a fool of himself, but others can draw their own conclusions.

Many, not having the requisite technical background nor the time to study the structure and the data come at 911 from a political perspective and then cite supposed experts who provide analysis which support their politically derived pre conception/conclusions. And since we have a lying government this is understandable... and they DID lie about much of 911. But we know that among the objectives of their lies was the GWOT and wars in the ME. And the concept of spinning lies is very different from the concept of creating the underlying event that they then lie or spin about. All one has to do is watch the officials commenting on any world event... they are spinning like a quasar.

nuff said

I don't assume any posture... that is your perception.

WOW!!:

"Charles,

This is an interesting criticism. I am not especially interested in the study of deep politics."
Jeffrey

This may have been addressed before, as I am re-reading this thread ....I recall that these words also jumped out at me when I first read them
If you are not interested then why would you join a forum by this name?

I dis- like all the bickering but to say these words is freaking asking for it. Why not just put a sign on your ass that says "kick me, I deserve it".

Dawn

[Dawn Meredith]

As always, Albert, I struggle to find common language, experience, and education on which to base our communications.

As always, I fail.

And yet I can't resist: The unseen, remembered is far more powerful a force on human imagination and behavior than is the seen.

That's OK Charles. If you lack the education I can explain it to you slowly...

He missed the irony entirely. :banghead:

[Simon Copping-Patton]

From a deep political point of view, the sponsors intended for the towers to come down on 9/11. Had they just stood there smoldering that day, would have sent the aftermath into an entirely different direction. Assuming there was no plane switching that day, body identification and recovery would have been the first task. The buildings would have been crawling with structural engineers analysing the buildings for safety, repair, and whatever demolition needed. Instead we were informed we had been attacked by 19 Arab fanatics who represent people who hate our freedom. The story still goes from there. I argue we would not be living that story if the buildings had been smoldering broken stubs.

Since the buildings had to fall, the sponsors would have had to be assured that just the act of crashing planes into the buildings would have guaranteed that result. No explosives needed? Fine. Let's roll.

I disagree. The Towers were enough of a prominent symbol of New York that simply having them as a perverse neo-con Statue Of Liberty torch belching black terrorist smoke for all to see was enough to elicit the response. Don't forget that these arab terrorists also successfully blasted through the main symbol and bastion of military power in America - the Pentagon. And if Flight 93 wasn't shot down by the fighter jet witnessed appearing right after the crash, that was denied by the authorities, then another Washington icon probably would have served as a gaping reminder of arab terror.

There's simply no way the US, under Bush and the neo-cons, would not have gone to war in the Middle East even with the Towers remaining standing.

"Do you remember watching it all unfold on television and feeling somehow like it "wasn't real"? That's a crucial symptom of traumatic dissociation. Your mind splits, blinks off for a moment, creating a critical space which can be filled with a new story, a new mythos. Before that, almost none of us gave a shit about terrorism or national security. But as a result of this trauma-based rite of passage, we were suddenly conditioned to a completely new value system one in which everything we held dear before was turned upside-down: personal freedom, the Bill of Rights, etc. It's virtually identical to what happens to a child in a traditional culture who is re-aligned to adulthood through ritual circumcision and the supporting transformative mythos. Maybe the World Trade Center tumbling down was the ritual circumcision of the American psyche. We are now adults. We are now warriors."

-Tim Boucher

The deeper purpose behind the 9/11 attacks had little to do with war or profit. Those were motivations, but secondary ones. The deeper purpose behind the attacks was psychological, and the wars that came afterward were only a part of that. I believe that a lot of the shooting massacres and the terrorist attacks we see are part of a deeply calculated program of psychological warfare designed to create a climate of fear.

The deepest motivation behind all of this, I believe, is a mixture of the occult and psychology.

[Magda Hassan]

Charles,

This is an interesting criticism. I am not especially interested in the study of deep politics. I am not even sure what you mean by that. I assume it is a view of the world which sees everything (almost) as directed by the hidden *deep state*. I'm probably wrong. If you want to explain it in a paragraph of two I would be interested.

What I have done when I venture into *politics* and the behavior of political forces around the world is take a more cause and effect / stimulus response approach. Party A treats parties B like shit and B kicks back. Why A behaves as it does may be for multiple reasons... racism, or that B happens to be in the way of some economic agenda and so B gets it on the chin. Or perhaps B is used to acheive A's agenda as in slavery.

I see the MIC as driving much of the agenda for the USA and the USA dominates the world these days. The capitalist system seems to support and or be swept up in the empire agenda... that is let's make money any way we can...

When I examine 9/11 I look at the technical aspects of the destruction and I see that the uusual suspects spun the hell out of the event to advance the MIC agenda. As I don't see evidence of CD as others think exists... I dismiss the MIHOP and probably the deep state frame. I think most will agree that the 911 was used to gin up war in the ME and it a bogus case.

Color me naive.

This is not a technical forum... and so perhaps this is not the place to argue physics and engineering... disciplines that Fetzer seems to be not very conversant with but that doesn't seem to prevent him from passing himself off as some sort of expert on technical matters. I think he makes a fool of himself, but others can draw their own conclusions.

Many, not having the requisite technical background nor the time to study the structure and the data come at 911 from a political perspective and then cite supposed experts who provide analysis which support their politically derived pre conception/conclusions. And since we have a lying government this is understandable... and they DID lie about much of 911. But we know that among the objectives of their lies was the GWOT and wars in the ME. And the concept of spinning lies is very different from the concept of creating the underlying event that they then lie or spin about. All one has to do is watch the officials commenting on any world event... they are spinning like a quasar.

nuff said

I don't assume any posture... that is your perception.

WOW!!:

"Charles,

This is an interesting criticism. I am not especially interested in the study of deep politics."
Jeffrey

This may have been addressed before, as I am re-reading this thread ....I recall that these words also jumped out at me when I first read them
If you are not interested then why would you join a forum by this name?

I dis- like all the bickering but to say these words is freaking asking for it. Why not just put a sign on your ass that says "kick me, I deserve it".

Dawn

Yes, this has been addressed before. Several times. Jeffrey was invited to participate this forum along with a group of others, who had been involved in 911 research and discussions elsewhere. He has contributed very good information on a technical and knowledgable basis as to those events using his knowledge of the building itself and his skills as an architect. His voice was a vision of sanity compared to the Fetzerania phantasy coming from you know who. He was much provoked by Fetzer's appalling forum ettiquette as well. And as can be seen Charles has, as usual, had a go at him here. He is new to 'deep political thinking' as such so it is a learning curve for him. You've possibly been getting the same emails and PMs I have Dawn....

[Magda Hassan]

"Do you remember watching it all unfold on television and feeling somehow like it "wasn't real"? That's a crucial symptom of traumatic dissociation. Your mind splits, blinks off for a moment, creating a critical space which can be filled with a new story, a new mythos. Before that, almost none of us gave a shit about terrorism or national security. But as a result of this trauma-based rite of passage, we were suddenly conditioned to a completely new value system one in which everything we held dear before was turned upside-down: personal freedom, the Bill of Rights, etc. It's virtually identical to what happens to a child in a traditional culture who is re-aligned to adulthood through ritual circumcision and the supporting transformative mythos. Maybe the World Trade Center tumbling down was the ritual circumcision of the American psyche. We are now adults. We are now warriors."

-Tim Boucher

The deeper purpose behind the 9/11 attacks had little to do with war or profit. Those were motivations, but secondary ones. The deeper purpose behind the attacks was psychological, and the wars that came afterward were only a part of that. I believe that a lot of the shooting massacres and the terrorist attacks we see are part of a deeply calculated program of psychological warfare designed to create a climate of fear.

The deepest motivation behind all of this, I believe, is a mixture of the occult and psychology.

Certainly the symbolic representation of the attack cannot be over stated. But again there are several points of view on what it means. So there is a battle for control on that narrative as well. From a US (and I would say male) centric position it may be one of fear. Others having lived in fear of the US and their proxy tyrants for them it is a liberating sense of victory. One for the 'under dog' so to speak showing the emperor has no clothes. But in either and all cases it is definitely playing in the Shadowlands.