Libya : A no lie zone

[Keith Millea]

Bill,I cannot find any proof that Libya executed 1,000 prisoners.All that I could find is a statement by one individual who worked in the kitchen,who said he was a witness.This man is now living in the US.The only other source is a witness that the opposition forces have produced.Prisoners wouldn't talk to HRW out of fear,so nothing is conclusive here.

Libya claims there was a prison uprising,in which one guard was killed.They claim some prisoners were killed during the retaking of the prison.The massacre story,to me,sounds all too familiar.It's sort of like the Kuwait baby incubator story.Then we have todays nice little goodie from the AP:http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2011/11/29

GENEVA A UN investigation concluded Monday that Syrian forces committed crimes against humanity by killing and torturing hundreds of children, including a 2-year-old girl reportedly shot to death so she wouldn't grow up to be a demonstrator.:monkeypiss:

Certainly there were a number of prisoners killed at the prison.Were there 1,000?I think this number is seriously untruthful,IMHO.

Human Rights Watch

Libya: 1996 Prison Killings Need Independent Inquiry

Hundreds Said Murdered by Security Forces 10 Years Ago

June 27, 2006

Hundreds of prisoners were apparently killed at Abu Salim prison in June 1996. The government must allow an independent investigation into the incident and punish anyone found to have ordered or committed such a horrible crime.

Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division

The Libyan government should allow an independent investigation into large-scale killings in Tripoli's Abu Salim prison 10 years ago, Human Rights Watch said today. A decade later, the government has failed to release important details on the incident, including the number of people killed on June 28 and 29, 1996 and the names of the dead.

"Hundreds of prisoners were apparently killed at Abu Salim prison in June 1996," said Sarah Leah Whitson, executive director of the Middle East and North Africa division at Human Rights Watch. "The government must allow an independent investigation into the incident and punish anyone found to have ordered or committed such a horrible crime."

A former prisoner who said he witnessed the incident told Human Rights Watch that security forces used sustained gunfire to kill up to 1,200 prisoners and then disposed of the bodies. His testimony and other evidence are presented in a background paper released today.

Human Rights Watch could not verify the ex-prisoner's claim, but the Libyan government acknowledges that security forces killed prisoners on those days in Abu Salim. Details of his testimony are also consistent with a report from an émigré Libyan group, which was based on the account of another witness.

According to the witness interviewed by Human Rights Watch, prisoners revolted on June 28 over bad prison conditions. They killed one guard, and security forces killed seven prisoners who had broken free from their cells. The next day, when the prison was under control, security forces that were deployed on barrack rooftops fired on prisoners in the courtyards below, using heavy machine guns, AK-47 automatic rifles and pistols. Over the next few days, he said that forces buried the bodies in a trench inside the prison walls, although he thought they subsequently had the bodies removed.

Abu Salim prison held between 1,600 and 1,700 prisoners at the time, and the security forces killed "around 1,200 people," said the witness, who worked in the prison kitchen and now lives in the United States. He calculated this figure by counting the number of meals he prepared prior to and after the incident.

Libyan leader Mu`ammar al-Qadhafi and other officials have admitted that security forces killed some prisoners on those two days, claiming they responded properly to the prison revolt. The head of Libya's Internal Security Agency told Human Rights Watch in May 2005 that the government had opened an investigation into the incident, but the manner of the investigation and its timing remain unknown. More than 400 prisoners escaped Abu Salim in four separate break-outs prior to and after the incident, he said.

Restrictions on independent research in Libya make it difficult to learn more. Prisoners still in Abu Salim whom Human Rights Watch interviewed last year were unwilling to speak about the incident, apparently out of fear.

A Libyan group based in Switzerland, Libyan Human Rights Solidarity, says the Libyan authorities have notified 112 families that a relative held in Abu Salim is dead, without providing the body or details on the cause of death. In addition, 238 families claim they have lost contact with a relative who was a prisoner in Abu Salim.

"The families of missing prisoners have the right to know their relatives' fate," Whitson said. "The government must cooperate in shedding light on this tragic event."

To read the Human Rights Watch background paper on Abu Salim prison, see:
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/06/28/libya13636.htm

[Bill Kelly]

Hi Keith,

Thanks for reading my stuff and responding. I too was incredulous - is that the word? - when I heard that number, but it turns out it was over 1200 prisoners killed in 1996 at Abu Salim prison Tripoli. As you noted, here's the Human Rights Watch report from 2006 - but we know a lot more about it today. They found the mass grave and the bones.
[URL="http://www.hrw.org/reports/2006/06/28/libya-june-1996-killings-abu-salim-prison"]
Libya: June 1996 Killingsat Abu Salim Prison

[/URL]In the summer of 1996, stories began to filter out of Libya about a mass killing in Tripoli's Abu Salim prison. The details remained scarce, and the government initially denied that an incident had taken place. Libyan groups outside the country said up to 1,200 prisoners had died. Thanks for asking as I hadn't read the HRW report. We now know a lot more.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2006/06/27/li...lim-prison

Abu Salim prison is now a major tourist attraction, as I had posted a few articles about it. At least two foreign journalists covering the revolution were incarcerated there and lived, including one who later tracked down his guards and interviewed them,

Revolutionary Program: Reporter Tracks down Tripoli Jailer

and Mathew Van Dyke, War Zone Biker who when freed by rebels, joined them and helped liberate the prison in Sirte where his friends were being held.
[URL="http://revolutionaryprogram.blogspot.com/2011/11/van-dyke-phones-home.html"]
Revolutionary Program: Van Dyke Phones Home[/URL]

The mass murder of the 1200 prisoners is part of the revolutionary chronicles because it was the families of the victims who were petitioning Gadhafi to release the names of those killed so they knew who was dead and who might still be alive, and when their lawyer was arrested, it was their protests that started the February 15th revolution in Libya.

I started my blog two days earlier Revolutionary Program: Paying Last Respects to Mohamed Bouazizi, and knowing of the unrest there, predicted that if the turmoil spread to Libya it would begin in Benghazi.

Ten years before the Abu Salim prison massacre, Sadek Hamed Al-Shuwehdy was arrested, tried for treason and executed in a school gymnasium by
by the mayor of Benghazi Huda Ben Amer, whose home was one of the first to be burned by the revolutionaries.

When I posted a story about this and commented on it, a Libyan wrote back that it wasn't really that shocking because in some countries, like Libya "life is cheap."

http://revolutionaryprogram.blogspot.com...ngazi.html

Thirty years ago, a young Libyan, Sadek Hamed Al-Shuwehdy,returned to Benghazi after studying aeronautical engineering in the US and got a job at the airport. He was unhappy with the state of Libya, with Qaddafi's despotic rule. He was not militant activist, but he joined a group campaigning for change.

In a country where dissent is illegal, he was soon marked out as an enemy of the state and, in Qaddafi's Libya,that is an offense punishable by death. In 1984, he was arrested in the middle of the night by the secret police and held, but he was not immediately shot in jail, unlike all the other opponents of the regime. Three months later, he was taken to the city's basketball stadium and in front of television cameras and hundreds of school children and students from Benghazi's Garyounis University brought in they were told to witness the public trial of a traitor, he was hanged. Qaddafi had decided that his should be a very public death and a warning to students what would happen to them if they dared oppose him. There was no trial. The students were deeply shocked. Some pleaded in vain for mercy for Sadek. But not all.

As he was hanging and writhing but obviously not yet dead, Huda Ben Amer ran out from the crowd of students, grabbed onto his body and with her weight pulled it down to make sure he died.

http://revolutionaryprogram.blogspot.com...-lost.html

wff said...
Sorry but the report on Sadiq Hamed Shwehdi as an example ofGaddafi's "brutal" rule is out of all proportion and context and ismore of a cheap propaganda and demonization against Gaddafi than a serious analysis. Executions may have been more public in Libya and even more brutal due to the,dare I say with reservations, "less civilized" culture, development,etc., but even in the UK the death penalty for the type of act committed was still in force up until 1998, while in the US public televised executions are held even today. In many countries even now, life is "cheap" and seeing cruelty, executions, etc. does not have the same effect or significance as it does in the West, unfortunate but true.

I don't know what kind of "Proof" you need, but that's good enough for me.

[Keith Millea]

I don't know what kind of "Proof" you need, but that's good enough for me.

Where is the proof of the finding of the mass grave and bones?Were they able to give an estimate about how many bodies in the grave?I can't seem to find this information.Show me that,and I'll readily agree with you.

[Bill Kelly]

I don't know what kind of "Proof" you need, but that's good enough for me.

Where is the proof of the finding of the mass grave and bones?Were they able to give an estimate about how many bodies in the grave?I can't seem to find this information.Show me that,and I'll readily agree with you.

[URL="http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16076810"]

Libya: 'Mass Grave Found In Tripoli Linked To Abu Salim Prison Massacre' As Fighting Intensifies | World News | Sky News

[/URL]A mass grave reportedly containing more than 1,200 bodies has been found in Tripoli as intense fighting continues in Colonel Gaddafi's home town of Sirte.

The National Transitional Council (NTC) said the remains are believed to be that of the victims of the 1996 Abu Salim prison massacre.Human rights groups have estimated Col Gaddafi's forces shot dead up to 2,000 inmates as they were protesting about conditions at the facility.The uprising that toppled Col Gaddafi last month was ignited by protests linked to the Abu Salim tragedy.In February, families of inmates killed demonstrated in the eastern city of Benghazi.
A woman walks past a wall in Benghazi featuring pictures of the massacre victims

Medical official Dr Osman Abdul Jalil said they have begun the identifying process."We are dealing with more than 1,270 martyrs and must distinguish each one from the other for identification by comparing their DNA with family members," he said."It may take years to reach the truth."[URL="http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16076810"]The discovery comes as Nato planes hammered the city of Sirte where street battles between NTC forces and pro-Gaddafi fighters left dozens killed and many more wounded.

[/URL][URL="http://www.france24.com/en/20110926-mass-grave-1996-abu-salim-uprising-1200-found-tripoli-prisoners-libya"]Mass grave from Abu Salim prison massacre found - LIBYA - FRANCE 24


[/URL][/url][URL="http://www.france24.com/en/20110926-mass-grave-1996-abu-salim-uprising-1200-found-tripoli-prisoners-libya"]
AP - A bone wrapped with rope and skull fragments scattered over a cactus-covered desert field are grim testament to a 1996 massacre of more than 1,200 prisoners by Moammar Gadhafi's regime.
Libyan officials announced Sunday that they found a mass grave believed to hold the remains of the victims outside the white walls of Tripoli's Abu Salim prison, where Gadhafi locked up and tortured opponents or simply made them disappear. Excavation has not begun, but several bone fragments and pieces of clothing already have been found in the topsoil.


Those bones could offer some of the most damning evidence of the brutality of Gadhafi's nearly 42-year rule, and allow relatives of the victims to learn the truth about their fates after years of regime stonewalling. They also hold symbolic importance to the Libyan revolution itself, which was sparked in mid-February in the eastern city of Benghazi by demonstrators demanding the release of a prominent lawyer representing the families of slain inmates.
"We have discovered the truth about what the Libyan people have been waiting for for many years, and it is the bodies and remains of the Abu Salim massacre," military spokesman Khalid al-Sherif said at a news conference.
Soldiers and relatives sifted through the sand during a visit Sunday, displaying a pair of pants and other remains for reporters brought to the site. One bone had a rope tied around it, possibly from a prisoner who had been bound. A group of former rebels at the site shouted "Allahu Akbar" -- "God is great" -- as relatives wandered through the area.
Al-Sherif and members of a committee tasked with finding mass graves said they were confident the field holds the remains of the prison massacre victims based on information from witnesses, including former security guards who have been captured in the fight against the authoritarian leader.
Gadhafi has been in hiding since revolutionary forces swept into Tripoli in late August, though his supporters continue to fight in several parts of the country. He, one of his sons and his intelligence chief face international charges of crimes against humanity for the regime's bloody effort to wipe out anti-government protests this year, but not for earlier killings.
The June 1996 massacre occurred after inmates rioted to protest their treatment. Guards responded by opening fire on them. Al-Sherif said authorities believe the bodies were kept in the prison before they were buried in 2000.
The killings became a focal point for Gadhafi's opponents. Most of the inmates were political prisoners, including Islamic clerics and students who had dared to speak against the erratic leader, who wielded almost complete control over the oil-rich North African nation.
For many years, families of those killed were not told the truth and were barred from visiting, but reports about the shootings began to emerge after one of the guards spoke out and human rights groups began to investigate. Gadhafi had agreed to pay the families compensation, but activists insisted that those responsible be brought to justice.
Ibrahim Abu Shima, a member of the committee looking for mass graves, said investigators believe 1,270 people were buried in the field, based on a list of prisoners reported killed. He stressed that Libya needed help from the international community to find and identify the remains because they lacked sophisticated equipment needed for DNA testing.
The Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross has said at least 13 mass graves have been found in Libya since Tripoli fell.
Soaade Messoudi, a Red Cross spokeswoman in Tripoli, said the organization dispatched two forensics experts this month to help with the management of human remains. But she said the organization is not involved in collecting evidence that could be used in any legal proceedings.
"We urge the people to be careful in uncovering human remains," she said. "This could really affect any possible recovery of the identity of these missing persons."
The New York-based group Human Rights Watch has urged Libya's transitional government to keep mass grave sites secure and to stop exhuming remains until it can be done properly.
Sami al-Saadi, who said he lost two brothers in the massacre and was himself imprisoned at one point, said it was important to bring closure for relatives who have gone years without knowing where their loved ones are buried.
He said he had rejoiced when revolutionary forces succeeded in ousting Gadhafi, but the memory of his brothers Mohammed and Adel cast a shadow over the celebrations.
"The people who are responsible for this massacre should be brought before a judge and we can give now sure evidence to all the world about Moammar Gadhafi and how this dictator led this country and its people," al-Saadi said as he stood in the field, walls lined with barbed wire towering behind him.
Mabrouka al-Sayed said she has waited years for news of her son Abdul-Aziz, who was believed killed in the massacre. She said representatives from the prison claimed he died after becoming ill but she didn't believe them. They never returned his body, giving her only a death certificate.
"I've been in deep sadness because I didn't know where my son was," she said as she sat in a pickup truck with her grandson while male relatives went to see the field. "I feel great relief now that I know where his burial place is."
The prison itself, near what had been Gadhafi's sprawling compound, sits empty now. Its inmates were freed amid fierce fighting as rebels swept Gadhafi's regime from the capital.
[/url][URL="http://www.france24.com/en/20110926-mass-grave-1996-abu-salim-uprising-1200-found-tripoli-prisoners-libya"]
AP - A bone wrapped with rope and skull fragments scattered over a cactus-covered desert field are grim testament to a 1996 massacre of more than 1,200 prisoners by Moammar Gadhafi's regime.
Libyan officials announced Sunday that they found a mass grave believed to hold the remains of the victims outside the white walls of Tripoli's Abu Salim prison, where Gadhafi locked up and tortured opponents or simply made them disappear. Excavation has not begun, but several bone fragments and pieces of clothing already have been found in the topsoil.
Those bones could offer some of the most damning evidence of the brutality of Gadhafi's nearly 42-year rule, and allow relatives of the victims to learn the truth about their fates after years of regime stonewalling. They also hold symbolic importance to the Libyan revolution itself, which was sparked in mid-February in the eastern city of Benghazi by demonstrators demanding the release of a prominent lawyer representing the families of slain inmates.
"We have discovered the truth about what the Libyan people have been waiting for for many years, and it is the bodies and remains of the Abu Salim massacre," military spokesman Khalid al-Sherif said at a news conference.
Soldiers and relatives sifted through the sand during a visit Sunday, displaying a pair of pants and other remains for reporters brought to the site. One bone had a rope tied around it, possibly from a prisoner who had been bound. A group of former rebels at the site shouted "Allahu Akbar" -- "God is great" -- as relatives wandered through the area.
Al-Sherif and members of a committee tasked with finding mass graves said they were confident the field holds the remains of the prison massacre victims based on information from witnesses, including former security guards who have been captured in the fight against the authoritarian leader.
Gadhafi has been in hiding since revolutionary forces swept into Tripoli in late August, though his supporters continue to fight in several parts of the country. He, one of his sons and his intelligence chief face international charges of crimes against humanity for the regime's bloody effort to wipe out anti-government protests this year, but not for earlier killings.
The June 1996 massacre occurred after inmates rioted to protest their treatment. Guards responded by opening fire on them. Al-Sherif said authorities believe the bodies were kept in the prison before they were buried in 2000.
The killings became a focal point for Gadhafi's opponents. Most of the inmates were political prisoners, including Islamic clerics and students who had dared to speak against the erratic leader, who wielded almost complete control over the oil-rich North African nation.
For many years, families of those killed were not told the truth and were barred from visiting, but reports about the shootings began to emerge after one of the guards spoke out and human rights groups began to investigate. Gadhafi had agreed to pay the families compensation, but activists insisted that those responsible be brought to justice.
Ibrahim Abu Shima, a member of the committee looking for mass graves, said investigators believe 1,270 people were buried in the field, based on a list of prisoners reported killed. He stressed that Libya needed help from the international community to find and identify the remains because they lacked sophisticated equipment needed for DNA testing.
The Geneva-based International Committee of the Red Cross has said at least 13 mass graves have been found in Libya since Tripoli fell.
Soaade Messoudi, a Red Cross spokeswoman in Tripoli, said the organization dispatched two forensics experts this month to help with the management of human remains. But she said the organization is not involved in collecting evidence that could be used in any legal proceedings.
"We urge the people to be careful in uncovering human remains," she said. "This could really affect any possible recovery of the identity of these missing persons."
The New York-based group Human Rights Watch has urged Libya's transitional government to keep mass grave sites secure and to stop exhuming remains until it can be done properly.
Sami al-Saadi, who said he lost two brothers in the massacre and was himself imprisoned at one point, said it was important to bring closure for relatives who have gone years without knowing where their loved ones are buried.
He said he had rejoiced when revolutionary forces succeeded in ousting Gadhafi, but the memory of his brothers Mohammed and Adel cast a shadow over the celebrations.
"The people who are responsible for this massacre should be brought before a judge and we can give now sure evidence to all the world about Moammar Gadhafi and how this dictator led this country and its people," al-Saadi said as he stood in the field, walls lined with barbed wire towering behind him.
Mabrouka al-Sayed said she has waited years for news of her son Abdul-Aziz, who was believed killed in the massacre. She said representatives from the prison claimed he died after becoming ill but she didn't believe them. They never returned his body, giving her only a death certificate.
"I've been in deep sadness because I didn't know where my son was," she said as she sat in a pickup truck with her grandson while male relatives went to see the field. "I feel great relief now that I know where his burial place is."
The prison itself, near what had been Gadhafi's sprawling compound, sits empty now. Its inmates were freed amid fierce fighting as rebels swept Gadhafi's regime from the capital.

[Keith Millea]

Thanks Bill,
It looks like it will take some time to excavate the site and get a more complete picture of what is there.That being said,this looks like a pretty gruesome find.And,no doubt,many other bodies are to be found in that desert sand.

[Ed Jewett]

NATO's Depraved Disregard for Libyan Civilian Casualties

December 27 2011 by Luporowanis in GUEST AUTHOR, INEQUALITY, MIDDLE EAST AND/OR ISLAM|No Comments
[Translate]

By Glen Ford. Republished from the Black Agenda Report.

Libyan rally September 2011. Picture courtesy of News Around Us.

A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford
"NATO carried
out a plan designed for no other purpose than to hide the killing of civilians, to methodically suppress all evidence of war crimes."
After leaving the door open to the United States and its European allies to destroy Libya from the air for seven brutal months, Russia is now pressing for an investigation of civilian casualties inflicted by NATO. The Russians, along with the Chinese, abstained from voting on the infamous United Nations Security Council resolution establishing a "no-fly" zone over Libya, ostensibly to protect civilians, a legal fig leaf that NATO interpreted as a go-ahead to batter Libya with 7,700 bombs and missiles. Incredibly, NATO's secretary general proclaimed in November that no civilian casualties had resulted that is, no confirmed civilian casualties. NATO made sure there could be no confirmation of civilian killings through its own classic Catch-22 policy: Only those civilians that NATO, itself, confirmed were dead could be listed as killed, and NATO's firm policy was never to investigate civilian casualties. Thus, the civilian death toll wasguaranteed to be zero.
The Russian envoy to the UN describes NATO's claims as "pure propaganda" but it's much worse than that. NATO carried out a plan designed for no other purpose than to hide the killing of civilians, to methodically suppress all evidence of war crimes. And that is certainly not only clear evidence of intent to commit war crimes, but is also, itself, a violation of the rules of war that is, a separate war crime. International law requires that combatants take care to minimize civilian casualties. NATO's policy of refusing to investigate civilian deaths is evidence on its face of a depraved disregard for civilian lives and the intention to avoid prosecution for crimes against civilians. By the standards of international law, the entire NATO chain of command, civilian and military, should face trial for war crimes. That means, the military and civilian authorities of France, Britain, the United States, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Belgium and Canada, plus theirPersian Gulf allies Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, who joined in the criminal enterprise. And yes, that means U.S. commander-in-chief Barack Obama[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0) !important]z[/COLOR], who ghoulishly "led from behind" by flying about one-fifth of the missions and providing most of the bombs and missiles and logistical support
By the standards of international law, the entire NATO chain of command, civilian and military, should face trial for war crimes."
New York Times claims its own investigation has uncovered between 40 and 70 civilian victims of NATO, a ludicrously low number in an air offensive that struck scores of Libyan cities and villages, in a war that NATO's Libyan allies claim killed 40,000 people. The Times and its western corporate media colleagues have no moral authority in this matter, having acted as megaphones and virtual agents of NATO's massive psychological warfare operation against the Libyan government. They reported fictitious tales of massive rapes by Libyan soldiers as fact, and fanned the flames of race war by spreading the lie that the Libyan regime was protected by legions of black African mercenaries. Thousands of black Libyan citizens and African migrant workers are dead at least partially as a result of western media lies.
Nowhere in the New York Times puny list of civilian dead do the names of Moammar Gaddafi'syoungest son and three grandchildren appear. They were killed in the last days of April by NATO bombs that struck Gaddafi's home four civilians killed in an assassination attempt that was, itself, illegal under U.S. and international law. The New York Times was not upset, then. They remain accomplices in the same crimes they purport to investigate.
For Black Agenda Radio, I'm Glen Ford. On the web, go to www.BlackAgendaReport.com
BAR executive editor Glen Ford can be contacted at Glen.Ford@BlackAgendaReport.com.

[Jan Klimkowski]

All the politicians who were in power at the time Libyan dissidents were being ratted out to Gaddafi claim that they "know nothing".

Then there's the, ahem, small matter of a Libyan intelligence safehouse in Knightsbridge for Gaddafi's agents....

MI5 'gave Libyan spies details of dissidents in Britain'

Libyan agents were reportedly greeted at Heathrow and given mobiles and a safehouse in Knightsbridge on 2006 mission

Press Association

guardian.co.uk, Sunday 22 April 2012 06.33 BST

The details of some of Muammar Gaddafi's opponents who had fled to Britain were given to Libyan spies by MI5, it has been reported.

Documents uncovered from archives in Libya reveal that agents for the British secret service supplied the confidential information to Gaddafi's intelligence officers, according to the Mail on Sunday.

It is claimed that in 2006 two Libyan agents were greeted at Heathrow airport and given a safehouse in Knightsbridge and secure mobile phones.

It was revealed on Wednesday that the Libyan military commander Abdel Hakim Belhaj is taking legal action against Jack Straw following allegations that the former foreign secretary personally permitted his illegal rendition.

His lawyers confirmed that legal papers had been served on the Labour MP after reports suggested he had signed documents that allowed the rebel to be sent back to his homeland in 2004.

Belhaj, 45, claims he had been living in exile in Beijing, China, before being detained with his wife Fatima while en route to the UK where they were trying to seek asylum.

The Conservative MP David Davies said the revelations unearthed from the archives suggested MI5 was involved in "peculiar" activities towards Libyans in the UK.

He said: "The operation which led to Mr Belhaj and others being extradited to Libya by the Americans was not the only operation we carried out in conjunction with the Libya security services.

"This is two years later. It involves people who have come to Britain, presumably cleared to live in Britain, being put under pressure to deal with the security service, which seems rather peculiar if this is realpolitik rather than protecting the security of the country."

Margaret Beckett, who was foreign secretary at the time, said the level of co-operation between Libya and the UK described in the files "didn't ring any bells with me".

She said it sounded like an "operational issue" and added: "If it's MI5 it's nothing to do with the Foreign Office."

The documents, classified "UK/Libya Secret", are reported to reveal that Libya was told its targets could be threatened with deportation if they failed to co-operate.

According to the minutes of one meeting between agents, a member of British intelligence staff said: "The target person has the right to make a complaint or seek police protection.

"British intelligence must be careful how they approach a target because this individual could call on human rights or the press and cause a security scandal that exposes the co-operation between British and Libyan secret services."

Close ties between Tripoli and London were also revealed in other confidential papers which document how MI6 and Libyan intelligence chiefs set up a radical mosque in a western European city to lure al-Qaida terrorists, according to the Sunday Telegraph.

[Albert Doyle]

What is it again that made Gaddafi an automatic Hitler type? The US has befriended and supported much worse leaders and still does. The US also has a much higher body count than Gaddafi. There's a strong argument that preventing the continuation of US War On Terror aggression would be the better of the two choices.

[Jan Klimkowski]

What is it again that made Gaddafi an automatic Hitler type? The US has befriended and supported much worse leaders and still does. The US also has a much higher body count than Gaddafi. There's a strong argument that preventing a continuation of US War On Terror aggression would be the better of the two choices.

The propaganda claim for the Evilness of Gaddafi is the shooting of Pc Yvonne Fletcher in London and the Lockerbie bombing.

Both these events happened well before Prime Minister Tony Blair had his sycophantic photo opportunity with Col Gaddafi in the yurt to enable British oil companies to exploit Libyan oil fields.

It is now clear that British and American intelligence rendered people who didn't get the rapprochement (eg former mujahadeen) so they could be tortured by the now "friendly power" of Libya.

Indeed, Blair continued lobbying for western business interests after leaving office:

A senior executive with the Libyan Investment Authority, the $70 billion fund used to invest the country's oil money abroad, said Mr Blair was one of three prominent western businessmen who regularly dealt with Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, son of the former leader.

Saif al-Islam and his close aides oversaw the activities of the fund, and often directed its officials on where they should make its investments, he said.

The executive, speaking on condition of anonymity, said officials were told the "ideas" they were ordered to pursue came from Mr Blair as well as one other British businessman and a former American diplomat.

"Tony Blair's visits were purely lobby visits for banking deals with JP Morgan," he said.

He said that unlike some other deals - notably some investments run by the US bank Goldman Sachs - JP Morgan's had never turned "bad".

Source.

However, when those same western business interests decided they wanted to take over Libyan resources, the propaganda machine turned Gaddafi into the Bogey Man again by remembering Yvonne Fletcher and Lockerbie.

The fact that Libya almost certainly was not responsible for Lockerbie was ignored by MSM in War on Terror propaganda mode.

[Albert Doyle]

It's comforting to know that this international Corleone family could jail and execute any one of us at any time once they decided to Boogeyman us. A few icons every now and then to send a message of power. Almost Mayan-like in its grotesqueness when you come down to it.