Liz Smith on the JFK Assasination

[Myra Bronstein]

Can't pass this opportunity up. Madeleine Brown claimed...

Adele

Yeah Adele, I think we're on the same page about Madeleine Brown. Back when I was trying to decide if she was credible I asked an author who interviewed her for his opinion. He said she was very eager to please and would basically say whatever she thought an interviewer wanted to hear. Her story would evolve over time.

I'm not trying to be mysterious about who the author is. It's just that he told me this in private. If anyone is itching to know who it is I'll tell you via PM.

[Myra Bronstein]

Hi Magda
Sorry I don't know how to add the link but I will copy the story here.
...

Joe, Just FYI you can embed a link by clicking on the "Insert Link" icon then pasting the URL into the popup window.

The "Insert Link" icon is right above the Message window under the smileys drop down menu. If you mouse over the icons you will see the names.

[Myra Bronstein]

Yes that was the problem with the always charming Ms. Brown. I had an opportunity to meet her in Dallas and while her stories had an air of credibility this party is clearly a fabrication. She claimed the Murchison party was written about in a Dallas paper, however no such article was ever found. And of course there are photos of LBJ in Houston at that same time.
Dawn

This is helpful Dawn. You're the second person to tell me she lacks credibility. Thanks.

[Jack White]

Yeah Adele, I think we're on the same page about Madeleine Brown. Back when I was trying to decide if she was credible I asked an author who interviewed her for his opinion. He said she was very eager to please and would basically say whatever she thought an interviewer wanted to hear. Her story would evolve over time.

I'm not trying to be mysterious about who the author is. It's just that he told me this in private. If anyone is itching to know who it is I'll tell you via PM.

I talked with Madeleine over many years. She never changed her story or
any details of it. In my opinion she was extremely credible. Her detractors
include Dave Perry, Gary Mack, Gerald Posner, etc...which ought to tell you
something. She clearly was an "insider". Lyndon was certainly the father
of her son Steve. Her "marriage" to Mr. Brown was certainly arranged by
Lyndon. The reason she went public was that Lady Bird cut off all funds
which Lyndon was providing to her and Steve. The only thing that could
not be cut off was her fully paid membership in the Top of the Cliff private
club, which had been put into a prepaid trust by Lyndon. So she ate there
frequently till her death. The food was excellent (she treated Jim Marrs and
me to lunch one day, paid for by Lyndon, she told us.). Even though her
funds were cut off, the lawyer who made all the arrangements for Lyndon
continued to look out for her, despite Lady Bird.

Jack

[Dawn Meredith]

From what I have been told over the years I agree with Jack, with the exception of this party. And even regarding the party there is some question, as there was another person on TMWKK who said she was also at the party. But the supposed news paper article of the party was never found. I even wondered if it could have been LBJ's nearly identical twin cousin who was in Houston, but that began to seem a bit far fetched.
And she was definately the mother of LBJ's child, who died young of cancer.
Dawn
Ps I also found her a delight, very fun loving, bearing no malace, still loving LBJ to the end. (God knows why).

[Peter Lemkin]

I talked with Madeleine over many years. She never changed her story or
any details of it. In my opinion she was extremely credible. Her detractors
include Dave Perry, Gary Mack, Gerald Posner, etc...which ought to tell you
something. She clearly was an "insider". Lyndon was certainly the father
of her son Steve. Her "marriage" to Mr. Brown was certainly arranged by
Lyndon. The reason she went public was that Lady Bird cut off all funds
which Lyndon was providing to her and Steve. The only thing that could
not be cut off was her fully paid membership in the Top of the Cliff private
club, which had been put into a prepaid trust by Lyndon. So she ate there
frequently till her death. The food was excellent (she treated Jim Marrs and
me to lunch one day, paid for by Lyndon, she told us.). Even though her
funds were cut off, the lawyer who made all the arrangements for Lyndon
continued to look out for her, despite Lady Bird.

Jack

LBJ 'bought' you and Jim lunch!...I'll remember that Jack!! I only met her once in Dallas. Just going on gut feeling from talking to her, I'd say she was telling the truth. She had a lot to loose in telling it - and my guess is had more believed her, something might have 'happened' to her.

[Jack White]

From what I have been told over the years I agree with Jack, with the exception of this party. And even regarding the party there is some question, as there was another person on TMWKK who said she was also at the party. But the supposed news paper article of the party was never found. I even wondered if it could have been LBJ's nearly identical twin cousin who was in Houston, but that began to seem a bit far fetched.
And she was definately the mother of LBJ's child, who died young of cancer.
Dawn
Ps I also found her a delight, very fun loving, bearing no malace, still loving LBJ to the end. (God knows why).

I have no doubt there was a PRIVATE party. I have never believed
there was a newspaper article about the party. The party was VERY late.
It was after 11 when Lyndon arrived. It was at events like this that he
was able to see his various mistresses. There was another in Houston,
according to Madeleine.

Madeleine never claimed that there was a newspaper article. That
claim was made by others.

Jack

[Adele Edisen]

I have no doubt there was a PRIVATE party. I have never believed
there was a newspaper article about the party. The party was VERY late.
It was after 11 when Lyndon arrived. It was at events like this that he
was able to see his various mistresses. There was another in Houston,
according to Madeleine.

Jack,
According to the Secret Service Report, Air Force I and Air Force II planes landed after 11:00 pm at the Carswell Air Force Base outside of Fort Worth.

From there both parties were driven to the Texas Hotel where they were to spend the night. LBJ, Ladybird, and members of his entourage went to his rooms and LBJ stayed up quite late with his group.

If he had met Madeleine at her "party" in Dallas, he would have had to have parachuted down from Air Force II as it flew at high altitude over that city, because to now get from Fort Worth to Dallas and to get there sometime after 11:00 pm (both cities are on Central Time, he would have had to have flown like Superman???

Furthermore, if you listen carefully to Madeleine's 80-minute video interview, she gives three different versions of what LBJ says to her. These statements were in reply to the interviewer's specific request to repeat what LBJ's statement was, verbatim. LBJ supposedly made only one statement to her, yet she had three different versions of it as "verbatim". If anyone could find that long video, please provide a link to it. Unfortunately, I cannot recall the interviewer's name or media affiliation.

This interviewer was very careful in how he worded his questions to her; she was all too eager to embellish her story, it seemed to me.

I was introduced to Madeleine Brown in 1991 at the ASK Symposium on the JFK Assassination by a very highly respected researcher. As we walked toward her in the hotel hallway where she was standing alone outside of the meeting rooms, he whispered something not repeatable here about her, which clearly indicated he did not think she was very 'credible.' Like Myra, I consider this a a very private statement from a very respectable researcher whose name is very well known, and I would rather not repeat it.


Regardless of her private life, I can sympathize with her over the loss of her son. However, she was falsely accusing someone of murder. A very strange kind of "love", if you ask me.

Lyndon Johnson and his entire staff begged John Kennedy and his staff to not go to Dallas on the Texas trip.* Lyndon and Ladybird Johnson had been viciously attacked and spat upon by right-wing zealots during the 1960 campaign. He knew of the John Birchers and Minutemen and Minutewomen and others who lived there. In photos of LBJ taken in Fort Worth before the fatal trip to Dallas, Johnson looks very worried.

*Reference is from The Thirty-First of March by Horace Busby, pages 140-142. Busby was LBJ's speechwriter and confidant during his careers in the House, the Senate, as Vice-President, and as President.

Adele

[Jack White]

Yes, it was around midnight when the presidential party arrived in downtown Fort Worth. But north Dallas is only a 40 minute drive from downtown Fort Worth, and there is no reason to think that Lyndon could not arrange to drive by private car from the hotel to get to the party. He knew the hotel well and could leave through the kitchen entrance without being noticed. The SS agents were all off drinking, leaving only fire department personnel to guard the rooms. There are several indications of the Murchison party which do not rely on Madeleine.

Jack

[Adele Edisen]

Jack,

You may not have read a thread I wrote on another forum, titled as I remember it, "Where was LBJ on Thursday. November 21, 1963"? I tracked his entire day from his arrival in San Antonio, the trip to Houston, the flight from Houston to Carswell Air Force Base, and to the hotel in Fort Worth, and into the next morning when he was seen at the early breakfast at the hotel with the presidential party in Fort Worth. I will try to locate that thread and the Secret Service Report which stated that LBJ stayed up late with his entourage in the hotel in Fort Worth.

It was done some time ago, and I'm not sure if it still on that forum because of the crash that happened there. I don't recall if I did that thread after the crash or before. Will look.

You said:

There are several indications of the Murchison party which do not rely on Madeleine.

What other evidence is there that Lyndon Johnson was at the Murchison party in Dallas? I don't believe I have ever seen any, and that would be most interesting.

I shall try to find that 80-minute video of the interview of Madeleine Brown, as well.

Allow me a few days for these searches.

Adele

Note added:
Jack, go to these two posts, both posted on February 9, 2008, on the JFKresearch.com Forum.

Part I
http://jfkresearch.com/forum3/index.php?...8#msg15918

Part II
http://jfkresearch.com/forum3/index.php?topic=4714.0

The second link has the video in it.