Valkyrie at Dealey Plaza

[Albert Doyle]

Also, this ruse could have been used to show the cooperating shooters that they would be protected in Dallas just as they had been in Chicago.

No, it couldn't.

Well, I think those involved would have spoken to each other. Remember the sniper rifle owners were never identified.

[Charles Drago]

Also, this ruse could have been used to show the cooperating shooters that they would be protected in Dallas just as they had been in Chicago.

No, it couldn't.

Well, I think those involved would have spoken to each other. Remember the sniper rifle owners were never identified.

Albert, once again I am at a loss to identify a common frame of reference within which we can communicate. I'm sorry I initiated this exchange. Boy, am I sorry! There will be no others.

[Greg Burnham]

Albert, once again I am at a loss to identify a common frame of reference within which we can communicate. I'm sorry I initiated this exchange. Boy, am I sorry! There will be no others.

Indeed.

[Albert Doyle]

Well, I think those involved would have spoken to each other. Remember the sniper rifle owners were never identified.

Albert, once again I am at a loss to identify a common frame of reference within which we can communicate. I'm sorry I initiated this exchange. Boy, am I sorry! There will be no others.[/QUOTE]



Sorry to hear that. I was genuinely interested in hearing why this couldn't have had an additional dimension of assuring those at the mechanic level that even when captured they were protected. I'd even be interested in hearing how that violated any of the dictates of deep political understanding.

Geesh Charles I respect your intellect and rigor towards the Deep Politics perspective but you run the risk of people thinking you just couldn't answer.

[Albert Doyle]

However i cannot exclude the possibility that it was a real attempt. If it was a real one, then the Vallee patsy would have pointed to the opposite direction
from Castro and to the Anti-Castro crowd and possibly the Chicago mafia.
Unfortunately we do not know the identity of the four gunmen-if it were Cuban or Anti-Castro extremists, those linked to Paulino Sierra Martinez and his
Junta in Exile with Prios Soccaras, Orlando Bosch, etc.

Right. You are dealing with a deep underground that doesn't operate at one simple level. Their nature was to operate in a shifting theater of multi-possibilities and complex arrangements. Therefore it is entirely possible that even though Chicago was a ruse intended to set-up Dallas that Chicago could have been executed if necessary. Remember Johnson would still be president either way and would still be calling the shots after JFK was killed. They could have accessed the Milteer angle and blamed right-wing extremists etc. After this patsy angle was processed Johnson would then proceed to take power in America and do the bidding of the conspirators.

[Vasilios Vazakas]

Thomas Vallee allegedly had trained anti-Castro Cubans in Levittown, Long Island.
Do we know the identity of those Cubans?Were related to Paulino Sierra and his JGCE organization? An organization that was aborted in January 1964?
There is a connection between Chicago, Miami and Dallas, since Echevarria a member of JGCE was buying weapons
from Francisco Blanco Fernandez of DRE, a superior to Bringuer who was in contact with Oswald.
Assuming that the Chicago was a real attempt, why the conspirators, Dulles and Angleton among (as most of us have agreed that they were) them would create a patsy, Vallee who was Anti-Castro and John Bircher, and not a Pro-Cuban? Bearing in mind that Angleton was promoting the Castro Soviets did it theory and he named Policarpo Lopez and Casas Saez as shooters.

[Greg Burnham]

Dulles and Angelton planned nothing for Dallas nor for Chicago. Both men took orders and only functioned in the areas
of their respective expertise. After the fact, Dulles and cronies were up to their necks in the cover-up, but not in the
operation itself. Had Dulles been in charge of the operation in Dallas, Kennedy would have died from old age long after
having completed his memoirs.

[Vasilios Vazakas]

So who was in charge? and in your opinion what was the role of Dulles and Angleton in the plot?

[Albert Doyle]

Thomas Vallee allegedly had trained anti-Castro Cubans in Levittown, Long Island.
Do we know the identity of those Cubans?Were related to Paulino Sierra and his JGCE organization? An organization that was aborted in January 1964?
There is a connection between Chicago, Miami and Dallas, since Echevarria a member of JGCE was buying weapons
from Francisco Blanco Fernandez of DRE, a superior to Bringuer who was in contact with Oswald.
Assuming that the Chicago was a real attempt, why the conspirators, Dulles and Angleton among (as most of us have agreed that they were) them would create a patsy, Vallee who was Anti-Castro and John Bircher, and not a Pro-Cuban? Bearing in mind that Angleton was promoting the Castro Soviets did it theory and he named Policarpo Lopez and Casas Saez as shooters.

The Long Island connection makes me wonder if the Lee Harvey Oswald New York driver's license was somehow related? Was Oswald being remotely drawn-in to Vallee and the Chicago plot through this connection? Was this somehow related to a failed branch of the plot where Oswald would have gone to Washington DC? Some say the Chicago plot would have lacked the defector and pro-Castroite Oswald. Maybe not. Maybe it didn't need him.

On the other hand if Chicago was real why would they make the blunder of leaving the sniper rifles out on the bed to be discovered? Or was this blunder no different than the rifle being seen carried up the Knoll in Dallas? Very sloppy and unprofessional for a covert group that intended to assassinate the most important person in the world. It makes you wonder if this plot was exposed deliberately, which would then bring serious question over its intent? Or was it an unexpected mistake when the landlady discovered the rifles?

[Greg Burnham]

So who was in charge? and in your opinion what was the role of Dulles and Angleton in the plot?

If they could be named, they could not be in charge, by definition.