David - could you please source the "plates in Africa" comment.... I can't find info on it anywhere...
Thanks
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To resurrect the passion of Mr Drago here for a moment...
JCS? CIA? DoD? MI? ONI?
I have always asked the question - WHO gave LeMay, Burkley, Galloway, the CIA, the ONI their orders at the SPONSOR level - or did they even have to? and what about Bundy and the other civilians?
who generated the initial smoke screen... SPONSOR or order taker?
The motivation of those who enjoy SPONSOR status is to raise the lever on those who will accomplish the desired end following their own motivations... while knowing in their heart of hearts that failure has its price.
The desire of the SPONOSR is to control absolutely... no competition, no losses - simply control all of it as thoroughly as possible for all of eternity...
"Ever since I read Pepper's book, I've felt that it made sense that the Pentagon were the sponsors of the MLK hit." -David G.
Help me out here David... how does the Pentagon benefit from the killing of MLK... as opposed to the actual SPONSOR level in which civil unrest leads to an entire population at each other's throats, too busy to watch the real villians rob us blind... The PENTAGON has no horse in that game from what I can tell.
Is it possible that MLK happened WITHOUT Sponsor sanction? Just the FBI getting fed up along with other Military neo-cons... as we both understand, killing MLK did nothing but martyr him and help the civil rights movement.. which in turn keeps the nation divided.. If the SPONSORS were ultra-national (and my belief is that most are European in backing and support) wouldn't a divided and war internal US be a help to their "plan" of complete and total control?
The PENTAGON spends money which enriches the SPONSORS...
The PENTAGON protects the interests of the SPONSORS around the world
The PENTAGON is an employment office for those aspiring to be useful to the SPONSOR level... or a reward for those who already have...
It is short-sighted to assume or suppose that HUMANS with all the power and money and control the SPONSOR level enjoys would not follow 1000's of years of social evolution...
Garrett Hardin quotes Situation Ethics by J Fletcher: the morality of an act is a function of the STATE OF THE SYSTEM at the time it is performed
The SPONSOR level has succeeded in creating a "State of the System" where their excesses cannot break thru that afternoon's realilty TV show or 53rd year of "One life to Live" (gee - talk about not getting THAT message)
And where internally - the ends always justify the means...
While we can see and feel and punish the Facilitators - it is tautological to find the SPONSORS beyond reproach and justice...
What I fail to understand BEYOND the model is what the system looks like WITHOUT the SPONSORS....
If you can offer any insight into that I'd appreciate it... From Plato to Hardin and beyond, I see no example of how it would work on a global scale
but am very interested in anyone's ideas
DJ
Facilitators come and go... SPONSORS are eternal, at least until the human condition and consciousness changes... to what is my current interest.
Like that scene from Goodfellas where Henry tells his wife not to worry... only wheelmen who fall asleep go to jail, not those who have it all worked out ahead of time....
or this one when he is first arrested "Keep your mouth shut, and NEVER rat on your friends"
David, I responded to Magda's comments which you can find in the Banking folder under Fake US Dollars. I'm going to copy and paste it here as well, below:
Originally Posted by Magda Hassan
Originally Posted by David Guyatt
....
On FUSD, in other words "fake US dollars" readers can do some digging on "superbills" (now known as 'superdollars' just t confuse things), but few will get back to the actual reality now, as so many artificial and confusing layers have now been added to the story placing the responsibility on Korea, Russia or various middle easter destinations. But the plates for these virtually perfect bank notes were found in South Africa, along with the plate man, who was arrested there by the US Secret Service. He was, curiously, a former US serviceman (Navy), who jumped ship in Cape Town many decades ago.
Now, that is some interesting secret history ::
Yep, you'll not find it written about in any depth anywhere. I desperately wanted to write the story, some years ago, but on balance couldn't stand it all up - although I believed (and believe) it to be true, and had a very large research file about it, not to mention some insider info at that time.
I could bore you to tears about Intaglio printing presses and bank note quality paper - and I could additionally, talk at some length about a strange Poppy Bush era money switch that apparently went down in Manuel Noriega's Panama, that allegedly saw the sum of $8 billion fake bills switched on a two for one basis. I wrote about this in "The Pegasus File" and besides Chip Tatum's account, had confirmation of the Iranian aspect from a former intelligence connected Shah era Iranian - who witnessed part of it go down.
That Tatum story later led to a contact that went into great detail about the South African angle I mentioned above. I used to receive small parcels in the post that contained micro cassettes that were so arranged as to make it impossible for the envelope to be opened and tampered with, without leaving a trace. I had many of these cassettes over several years, and knew the voice to a T. Lots of accompanying paperwork too.
Then, during the South African Truth & Reconcilliation hearings, I listened to testimony given during the laughable "truth" and "reconciliation" of one Dr. Wouter Basson ( aka Dr. Death) - as nasty a bugger as you could ever pray not to meet. He was charged with an assortment of vile crimes (think nazi Dr. Mengele, and you've got it), including over 200 murders. And in the end, he got a gentle spank on his botty for his troubles. Some reconciliation, eh.
Anyway, during that period of testimony, up jumps a voice discussing one Basson murder "it" was a witness to, and guess what? I instantly recognised that voice...
It's a small world.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
To add a little more to this, the arrest of the plateman by the US SS did not appear in any newspaper anywhere. That I am aware of anyway, and I looked. Hence you'll find nothing anywhere about this event. Period. For all intents and purposes it never happened. I don't even know if a prosecution took place. I suspect not given the below. But, at least, a main player was taken out of circulation, and the activities of people connected to one US agency were brought to a halt by the good work of members of another US agency. Not so much a turf war, I think, as a cleaning of the stables on this matter.
I was sent a contemporaneous micro-cassette giving a blow by blow account of the arrest, beginning just priot=r to it going down, then as it happened etc., complete with "sound effects". Besides that I had a full background of personalities involved and contacts etc. And the contacts of the plateman were extraordinarily interesting. A certain address of an apartment in Langley, Virginia. A drop box it seems. And that address was instantly recognised, as being the drop box also used by one other at an earlier time in that other persons career.
It's all long ago and I now am drawing on memory.
As I said, I wanted to write this story. Desperately so. But how do you stand something like this up? It would have been laughed off as being one man's crazed ravings.
So, in the end, I did nothing. I still regret that.
The shadow is a moral problem that challenges the whole ego-personality, for no one can become conscious of the shadow without considerable moral effort. To become conscious of it involves recognizing the dark aspects of the personality as present and real. This act is the essential condition for any kind of self-knowledge.
David Josephs - I have a problem with this shadowy "Sponsors" model because it sounds as though one group of nameless individuals is running the world (your quote: "Facilitators come and go... SPONSORS are eternal, at least until the human condition and consciousness changes") - when in fact the world is run by many different Elite and criminal groups. The US is divided up into several different factions - sometimes they cooperate, sometimes they compete with each other.
The Pentagon (the military-industrial complex) is absolutely enormous, and not run by one person or group. I worked in the defense industry for 10 years, and I live in a community with a heavy military presence. Unless you've been in that world, you can't get your head around how many agencies and departments and levels of bureaucracy there are. The US now has 16 intelligence agencies (that they've admitted to). They can't even keep track of where the money is going and what it's being spent on.
I used to have a high security clearance, but that doesn't mean you get to see any document stamped with that classification. You only get to see what your security manager lets you see (the "need to know.") There is so much compartmentalization, you literally don't know what the people in the next room are working on. And you don't ask. This is the perfect climate for conspiracies. This is how you can have drug & arms trafficking and human trafficking and false flag operations being done by different factions. Factions made up of a few dozen or a few hundred people.
High up in the officer classes, at least since the late 19th century, they were indoctrinated with militarism and anti-communism and American "exceptionalism." Think of ancient Sparta and modern Prussia. Many of them had nothing but contempt for civilians, especially those on the Left, but also the money-grubbing Wall Street types too. They saw themselves as the true guardians of the American Way of Life. They have a totally different mindset than civilians. Think of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, or Burt Lancaster in Seven Days in May.
"In [Gen. Lyman] Lemnitzer's view, the country would be far better off if the generals could take over." (James Bamford, Body of Secrets)
Tracy Riddle Wrote:David Josephs - I have a problem with this shadowy "Sponsors" model because it sounds as though one group of nameless individuals is running the world (your quote: "Facilitators come and go... SPONSORS are eternal, at least until the human condition and consciousness changes") - when in fact the world is run by many different Elite and criminal groups. The US is divided up into several different factions - sometimes they cooperate, sometimes they compete with each other.
The evidence of Sponsors is like the evidence of God. They have to exist because of all that points to them in all things involved in the assassination. Although I've come to the conclusion that perhaps machiavellian chess players like Angleton and Dulles either created the suggestion of Kennedy's assassination or were given strong hints for it by their intel/pentagon peers and then bounced the idea out to the Sponsors who then approved and sent it back to those main facilitators for action. That way those who controlled and profited from the assassination (Sponsors) would be safely above and out of the loop. I think CIA had a particularly key role in being the reality-creators or chess masters designed for this very purpose. I see a not-necessarily-accidental coincidence between God being called Universal Intelligence and our political fixers (CIA) being called "Central Intelligence". I think we know who thought they were God and it wasn't JFK.
Tracy Riddle Wrote:David Josephs - I have a problem with this shadowy "Sponsors" model because it sounds as though one group of nameless individuals is running the world (your quote: "Facilitators come and go... SPONSORS are eternal, at least until the human condition and consciousness changes") - when in fact the world is run by many different Elite and criminal groups. The US is divided up into several different factions - sometimes they cooperate, sometimes they compete with each other.
The Pentagon (the military-industrial complex) is absolutely enormous, and not run by one person or group. I worked in the defense industry for 10 years, and I live in a community with a heavy military presence. Unless you've been in that world, you can't get your head around how many agencies and departments and levels of bureaucracy there are. The US now has 16 intelligence agencies (that they've admitted to). They can't even keep track of where the money is going and what it's being spent on.
I used to have a high security clearance, but that doesn't mean you get to see any document stamped with that classification. You only get to see what your security manager lets you see (the "need to know.") There is so much compartmentalization, you literally don't know what the people in the next room are working on. And you don't ask. This is the perfect climate for conspiracies. This is how you can have drug & arms trafficking and human trafficking and false flag operations being done by different factions. Factions made up of a few dozen or a few hundred people.
High up in the officer classes, at least since the late 19th century, they were indoctrinated with militarism and anti-communism and American "exceptionalism." Think of ancient Sparta and modern Prussia. Many of them had nothing but contempt for civilians, especially those on the Left, but also the money-grubbing Wall Street types too. They saw themselves as the true guardians of the American Way of Life. They have a totally different mindset than civilians. Think of Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men, or Burt Lancaster in Seven Days in May.
"In [Gen. Lyman] Lemnitzer's view, the country would be far better off if the generals could take over." (James Bamford, Body of Secrets)
According to the Drago/Evica Model - from which we must take our meanings: SPONSORS -- Those with the authority andmotive to sanction the assassination and the connections to engage facilitatingagents and systems. Among them in my (C.Drago) opinion: the mostpowerful supra-national entities who were -- and are -- above Cold War and Clashof Civilization cosmetic differences.
FALSE SPONSORS These are selected primarily from involved high-levelFACILITATORS and otherwise uninvolved entities who logically might have comeunder suspicion. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman]Among them in my (C. Drago) opinion: LBJ, the CIA, the Mob, anti-Castro Cubans, Big Business, Big Oil, Castro, Khrushchev, etc.
Tracy - I do not see it as "one group of nameless individuals is running the world" but those that control very obvious industries and countries... and I agree, there are of course MANY groups...
Yet in the human world there is ALWAYS a TOP OF THE PYRAMID and everyone else... many of whom working their angles to get to this TOP.
You honestly think the drug lords of Afghanistan RUN anything without the approval, mercy and payment of others?
Who has more power than the Federal Reserve?
Who influences more in this world than the CFR and related "groups"?
Your statement about the Pentagon virtually INSURES that the SPONSORS are not there... too much BS to deal with... to many hurdles... they, as you wrote are indeed the "guardians of the American Way of Life" which means Business/Financial expansion while devastaing any competition... The IMF and World Banks are perfect examples. Bechtel in Bolivia... Haliburton in the Middle East... etc, etc, etc....
The SPONSOR could care less about the "American way of life" other than how it lines pockets and increases control.
As I have tried in the past to illustrate, the SPONSOR level not only controls some of the movements but takes advantage of ALL of the movements they can... not EVERYTHING that occurs is according to some plan... yet I think we can be sure that by definition, the SPONSORS are in a position to exploit these occurances - It just makes a bit more sense to see that MANY things that happen do happen for a reason, as you've said - that we as mere mortals with limited vision can barely grasp, see or understand in a SPONSOR context.
The SPONSOR has at their resource thousands and thousands of workers thinking of ways to "maximize profit" via any means possible... in virtually every industry and corner of the globe.
Not every action of the SPONSOR need be detrimental to the populations it affects... SPONSORS deliver to the masses via altruism, everything they can think of to make profit...
whether that which they deliver is in the best interest of those who are taking it - is an entirely different conversation... and leads us back to the Tragedy of the Commons...
The sad part here is that SPONSOR envokes visions of Michael Douglass' "Star Chamber"... only on a global scale. To believe that these SPONSORS do not work in both their own and the group's best interest is to ignore all of human evolution.
This has been going on for a long time... and while this illustration may be overstepping slightly... much of what we do today comes from the tactics of Queen Elizabeth the 1st and the British East India Trading Company.
"The prosperity that the officers of the company enjoyed allowed them to return to Britain and establish sprawling estates and businesses, and to obtain political power."
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Once in a while you get shown the light
in the strangest of places if you look at it right..... R. Hunter
For a mind-blowing great talk [Part I of II] by William Pepper on the King Assassination...listen here!! ::
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
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