Lauren Johnson Wrote:Good luck, Peter. Just remember, Orling views himself as the skeptic who uses sound science as opposed to everyone here (and he says he is well aware of our position) as ideologues. He is really good at using the "rope-a-dope" to wear down any opponent. He is here to "inform," never to learn -- ever. I am sure you are aware of this. Just reminding you what you are up against.
:rocker:
What I'm 'up against' is a Colbyesque [EF] clone and the comparison is very apt. I believe the two may have the same agenda, and perhaps more...... Its bullshit anyway one looks at it...the 'lets look and think cautiously' is just the voice of those who pulled of the deed via their propaganda and spin divisions [or at best cheerleaders]. AE-911Truth got rid of him, and this Forum needs to consider if he deserves some review here too, IMHO.
His stance is clever...but doesn't fool me one bit and didn't from his first post! He is pro official version, while hiding under the skirts of his 'zipper theory'....which holds no water and less molten steel! [or pulvarized dust; flying beams, etc.] IMO, he's either an oppoligist or agent for the Big Lie of 911 or someone who never learned any science or engineering while completing an architecture degree. Let each decide for themselves. I'm not one little bit afraid of his voodoo 'science'.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
The ad homs are disgraceful. I am not going to go into a long winded technical description of what anyone can see if the look closely. These motions are not explosions, but highly energetic as would be expected when such massive structures collapse.
A collapse which involves the communition of hundreds of thousands of tons of concrete, wall board and other building contents will release enormous about of heat from friction. That heat raised the temperature of the debris and the debris pile did act like a huge heat sink holding trillions of calories of heat for months... which slowly radiated into the atmosphere and the ground.
I don't know the precise cause of the extreme heat seen in some locations. I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that thermitic (exothermic) reactions were CREATED by the mixing of ground building laterals, in the presence of enormous pressure, water, heat and even fire. All of the substances which are used in thermite were present in the building... iron, aluminum, sulfur. Kevin Ryan produced thermite in his back yard with some beakers of these chemicals.
There is little to no evidence of melted steel... a few samples of eutectic burning in rather thin sections... not massive core columns. While this is very unusual and needs to be properly explained, these examples hardly would cause the towers to collapse.
I do not accept the official technical explanation, nor do I accept the political analysis. My present postion is more of a LIHOP than a MIHOP which still puts the officials in the hot seat.
I suggest you spend some time reading http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ which is written by a scientist... so you should be able to appreciate the rigor with which he approaches the evidence.
I am neither a foil nor do a hold a brief for the big lie. I'd be delighted to speak with Mark Gaffney.
I already forget the guys name but where is our "friend" from a week or 2 ago that was challenging us on the molten metal claims(among other things)? Did he take his ball and go home eventually? Or just call everybody who witnessed it liars and fools like he did with the firefighters who spoke of explosions?
Reply
willyloman, on June 26, 2012 at 9:28 am said:
That would be Jeffrey Orling, the guy associated with exposed fakes like Sanders Hicks and others. You can find his last comment here
Mr. Orling was banned by me because I got sick of having to reply to his constant barrage of debunked disinfo snippets.Of course, his big thing was that "friction" caused the molten steel that he simultaneously said didn't exist… and of course he pushes the obviously discredited "crush down crush up" theory.
In my humble opinion he is clearly a Sunstein agent and I was tired of allowing him an audience for his payroll.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Albert Doyle Wrote:The pile was honeycombed underneath by the Path tunnels that could act as an oxygen-supplying furnace.
Sorry Albert...three things [at least] wrong with that:
1] not honeycombed
2] O2 not the key, really, fuel to be oxidized is...
3] most important...no known fuels in the WTC other than thermite/thermate [including jetfuel - which burned off in about 10 minutes] reach temperatures high enough to melt steel [at ideal oxygen mixing - which was never present as can be seen from the dark smoke and temperature readings] - let alone for it to be kept hot enough to be liquid for months.....showing that it was not 'honeycombed', but closed and an insulated heat trap - retaining the heat and melted steel from the thermite/ate melt reaction.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
WillyLoman is hysterical and his claim to fame was that he did drafting for some home remodelling in FL. I did try to explain some tenchincal things to him on his forum but he's pretty much calls anyone who disagrees with him a dis info agent.
If that's the sort of science and engineering you trust Lemkin... good luck.
Not all exothermic reactions require a source of oxygen... some can use the oxygen bound in Iron and Alum oxide.
I recall all the statements about black smoke being a telltale sign of an oxygen starved fire. Not true... I am attaching a photo very dark black smoke produced when there was plenty of oxygen. The smoke's color is related to what was burning ... plastic (and diesel I suspect, though it could have been started by gasoline). There was an huge explosion as well.
The take away is that it is very difficult to know for certain the precise cause of what is experienced. There WERE things in those buildings exploding... such as power transformers. All bombs explode but not all explosions are bombs.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
Then, here, he got into a little debate with Jim Fetzer, the guy who brought us the likes of Judy Wood, Morgan Reynolds, and Stephen Jones. Wow. A guy who supports the official story of the gravitational collapse "arguing" with a fake "truther" like Fetzer. What a shock that is.
"Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws. - Mayer Rothschild
"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience! People are obedient in the face of poverty, starvation, stupidity, war, and cruelty. Our problem is that grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem!" - Howard Zinn
"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and never will" - Frederick Douglass
