It seems like the Mueller case is going to go into orbit in the next few days. Mueller is apparently going to indict a Russian on the issue of hacking the DNC emails. This obviously drastically raises the stakes in his investigation. Mueller has apparently given up on any other possible connection between the Russians and the Trump campaign.
The trouble is obviously because of the following:
(1) If there was alleged hacking between people in Russia and the DNC emails, this would involve classified "sources and methods" on how the intel people made this connection as definitive and provable. Thus, there is a question about how they would charge anyone in Russia in criminal court based on totally classified information IN ABSENTIA.
(2) Mueller would then try to charge Trump as part of a conspiracy with this Russian hacker regarding the emails. Thus, any guilt of Trump or his associates would be hinged to an alleged guilty Russian hacker, the proof of which would be contingent on secret and un-revealable information to the public.
(3) The Russian hacker would not be in the US to refute his alleged guilt, yet Trump's guilt would hang on the alleged guilt of someone who would not be able to refute his own guilt: thus, how would Trump refute his own guilt if it hinged on classified information about a Russian who is unavailable and whose incriminating information can't be presented to the public (or Congress) because it is classified.
(4) Worst of all, of course, is the fact that the "hacking" of the DNC was an inside job committed by Seth Rich. It has been proven that the emails could not have been hacked by someone over in Russia because they were too many megabytes to be transmitted over the phone lines. Seth Rich, of course was murdered by an FBI issued weapon with FBI issued ammunition which was allegedly stolen from an FBI SUV within an hour of the murder and only less than a mile away from the murder.
Obviously, if Mueller "goes there" he is putting all his marbles and all the marbles of the FBI out on the table. Hard to imagine what kind of pressure could cause him to do that and from where that pressure would be coming.
James Lateer
James Lateer Wrote:Peter: If I may, I will list your five main ingredients of fascism:
1) Rule of the wealthy and powerful
2) Use of heavy state propaganda
3) Militarism and masculine orientation
4) Prominence of Intelligence apparatus
5) Blaming disaffected groups as scapegoats
I have a problem with this definition. Based on your definition, there is no distinction between monarchism and fascism. Russia under the Czars or England under the Stuarts would qualify under your definition as fascism. It would also include the theocratic government of Iran. The government of Frederick the Great of Prussia and Prussia under Bismarck were essentially military dictatorships but there was no need to invent the word fascism until Mussolini came on the scene. These were either ordinary dictatorships or monarchies. All dictatorships are not fascist, or at least they weren't prior to the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century. Pericles was the dictator of Athens in the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] century b.c.
The definition and discussions of fascism that I have seen on various sites says that the use of the term fascism originated in the early twentieth century, mostly under Mussolini. If one recognizes that fact, then it is disingenuous to then retroactively include governments which existed prior to Mussolini. Those governments in their day had a name. Before 1920, the choices were oligarchy (labelled by Aristotlle in 400 b.c), monarchy, republics, tyrannies (dictatorships) and theocracy. All of those were represented in the ancient world. Today, one could also add Communism, although that existed, arguably, in the Book of Acts in the Bible and in early American history at New Harmony, Indiana and in the Paris Commune of 1870.
The word "fascism" means bundle. One source which I read said that the bundle is the people ( who are bundled). That is patently incorrect. Every government bundles its people. The "bundle" which was originated by Mussolini was the bundle of the military, the state established church and the corporations. The important point here is that fascism was invented as an antidote for communism. And the three major interest groups that stood together in opposition to communism were corporations (and the wealthy), the state established church and the military, which was groomed to serve the interests of the first two.
The following would be a list of consensus fascist goverments:
1) Italy under Mussolini
2) Germany under Hitler
3) Argentina under Juan Peron
4) Spain under General Francisco Franco
5) Portugal under Antonio Salazar
6) Chile under General Augusto Pinochet
7) Argentina under the Generals in the 1970's and 1980's (and Pope Francis)
8) Greece under the Colonels in the 1970's
Since most people hated and currently hate fascism, then it is easy to borrow the term to label any government you don't like as fascist. But that takes the meaning out of the word fascism which, in fact, had a very specific meaning.
All of the above listed fascist governments involved a state established church and in all except Greece, it was the Catholic Church. But what about Hitler?
Actually, Hitler started out in Munich. And Bavaria where Hitler began was 70% Catholic. It is well-known that Hitler, as a youth, was an alter-boy. The more unique aspect of German fascism is that Germany had an established Church but as a defense, they had also established the Lutheran church under law. But it has always been clear that fascism was invented by the established church(es) to oppose communism.
There are two legal definitions of religion in American law. The generic definition requires belief in a higher power. But for Constitutional purposes, it only requires a group of people who are bound together by a list of beliefs and principles which govern their life. Ironically, under the Establishment clause, communism should have been protected as a religion under legal precedent just like Buddhism which does not believe in a higher power.
It seems clear that fascism was invented by the Catholic (and sometimes the Eastern Rites and in Germany Lutheranism) to compete with communism for the same flocks, and also by large corporate interests which also surfaced for the first time around the late 19[SUP]th[/SUP] and early 20[SUP]th[/SUP] century.
It is especially inapplicable to claim that Putin and Trump somehow represent establishment religion. In a biography of Putin that I read recently, he was ruled by seven oligarchs, four of whom were Jewish. America (or probably Russia) do not have legally established religions. I don't think, also, that you could really define America under Trump as a fascist government. That's just labelling for its own sake.
James Lateer
James, I'm really not up for this discussion/argument - I think it is not that important and depends on perceptions and definitions. You seem to think that only post WWII governments can be fascist. I fully consider that of Caligula as such - as well as many other of the late Roman Emperors and governments. It is a new name, but not a new concept. Then they didn't have corporations per se, but they had the ultra-rich which were the contemporary equivalent. As to whether Trump [or even Bush II or Bush I] were or were not fascist or crypt-fascist or neo-fascist, I could [but will not be drawn into] expound. I think yes to all of them. I think the USA has been on the trajectory toward classical fascism since the end of WWII. It has its periods of faster movement and slower movement - of slight retreats and then advances - but we are IMO now over the line - not because of Trump, but in the time of Trump he puts the icing on the cake Bush II and his team built with the unPatriot act [started under Reagan or before], National Security Police State, permanent war, total propaganda from the government and its MSM puppets, corporate/ultra-rich/financial-State melding, masculine [false ones at that] values, and the denigration of perceived outsiders and others as scapegoats. And I do NOT find the Democrats, especially at the National level to have been anything of a moderating factor. They usually were the periods of slower movement toward a full fascist state - but not in all aspects. They too have become the half of the one US Corporate and Oligarch Party in the U.S. The neo [sic] fascist secret state has compromised and now controls both to varying extents - but too much - far, far too much.
You are welcome to differ. What we call it matters little. What it IS and what it DOES and how that EFFECTS us even if we call it high tea with the Cheshire Cat matters not. I personally have called myself an anti-facist researcher for decades [while looking at JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm-X, other assassinations, government overthrows, dirty tricks, black ops, propaganda, secret government actions, growth of military and police state, 'trickle-up' economics, the BIG LIE of false flags, etc, et al. My great and late friend John Judge first used the term and I adopted it too. If you say you are fighting Oligarchy, or [choose and one or several terms], fine. As long as we analyse and fight these......
Peter: I am no fan of fascists. As you know, I have spent four years proving in The Three Barons that JFK was murdered by a fascist alliance involving worldwide escaped Nazis, Nazis in the West German Government and Southern segregationists and New Orleans "Catholic Reformers" like Hale Boggs Leander Perez (although excommunicated) and David W. Ferrie.
I agree with you that you don't have to have a perfect bridge-hand of fascism all at once to have fascism. As I mentioned before here, after reading the book The The Real Odessa by Uki Goni, I realized that Trump pretty much fit the pattern of Juan Peron. Peron ran a government of which the foundation was oligarchy, but he expanded it into supporting labor unions to widen his base.
Person was only lukewarm toward the Catholic Church and the Military and fought a continual battle to prevent his support for unions from destruction of his base among the oligarchs and the military. He feared a military coup at every turn. All of this could be analyzed as the Trump-type strategy. And pretty much everybody would call Peron a Fascist (and surely the Patron Saint of the escaped Nazis).
Last night I listened to Mark Levin on Fox interview Devin Nunez on the "Russia probe." This Mueller situation is apparently heading the United States and our government off of a cliff. I you think that the Democratic Party is showing less of a tendency toward a fascist police state in this Russia-gate situation than is the Trump Administration, then I beg to differ.
Adam Schiff was a guest on C-Span Washington Journal a year ago. I called in and asked him on-the-air why the JFK files were still classified. He lied to my face and claimed that it was because of inadvertent over-classification. If Schiff is not the scariest face on TV right now, I don't know who else that would be. And, despite the fact he is a Democrat, he is the point-man for the attempted takeover the US by the Fascist anti-democratic, anti-truth, anti-election FBI force that is J EDGAR HOOVER ON STEROIDS.!
As everyone I have read on this site would agree, then END does not justify the MEANS in democracy. If we have The National Security State openly arrest Trump and take over the U S Government, then we won't be debating about Fascism. We will be living under it!
James Lateer
James Lateer Wrote:Seth Rich, of course was murdered by an FBI issued weapon with FBI issued ammunition which was allegedly stolen from an FBI SUV within an hour of the murder and only less than a mile away from the murder.
Source for this claim, please?
Lauren Johnson Wrote:From the Washington Times:
Quote:[FONT=&]With the clearly unethical and most likely criminal behavior of the upper management levels of the [/FONT]Department of Justice[FONT=&] ([/FONT]DOJ[FONT=&]) and the [/FONT]Federal Bureau of Investigation[FONT=&] ([/FONT]FBI[FONT=&]) exposed by Chairman Devin Nunes of the House Intelligence Committee, there are two complementary areas that have been conveniently swept under the rug.[/FONT][FONT=&]The first deals with the murder of the Democratic National Committee (DNC) staffer Seth Rich, and the second deals with the alleged hacking of the DNC server by Russia. Both should be of prime interest to special counsel Robert Mueller, but do not hold your breath.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]The facts that we know of in the murder of the DNC staffer, Seth Rich, was that he was gunned down blocks from his home on July 10, 2016. Washington Metro police detectives claim that Mr. Rich was a robbery victim, which is strange since after being shot twice in the back, he was still wearing a $2,000 gold necklace and watch. He still had his wallet, key and phone. Clearly, he was not a victim of robbery.[/FONT]
[FONT=&]This has all the earmarks of a targeted hit job. However, strangely no one has been charged with this horrific crime, and what is more intriguing is that no law enforcement agency is even investigating this murder. According to other open sources, Metro police were told by their "higher ups" that if they spoke about the case, they will be immediately terminated. It has been claimed that this order came down from very high up the "food chain," well beyond the D.C. [/FONT]
Washington Times -
Founded on May 17, 1982, by Sun Myung Moon, the Times was owned by
News World Communications, an international media conglomerate associated with the
Unification Church, until 2010, when Moon and a group of former executives purchased the paper. It is currently owned by diversified conglomerate Operations Holdings, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the church.[SUP]
[6][/SUP][SUP]
[7]
[/SUP]
![[Image: attachment.php?attachmentid=9436&stc=1]](https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9436&stc=1)
Trump picks torture queen to head CIA, after moving Pompeo to State to replace the fired Rexxon Tillerson.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/13/politics/...index.html
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's pick to head the CIA, Gina Haspel, would be the first female director of the intelligence agency if confirmed.
Haspel, who served as deputy director of the agency under Mike Pompeo, Trump's pick to replace Rex Tillerson as secretary of state, since February 2017, has accepted the new role, saying in a statement that she was "grateful to President Trump for the opportunity, and humbled by his confidence in" her.
Haspel is a career intelligence officer who joined the CIA in 1985.
In her appointment last year as deputy director, Haspel garnered praise from high-level Obama-era and Bush-era appointees, including former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and former CIA Director Michael Hayden.
During her time at the agency, Haspel has held several senior leadership positions, including directorial roles in the National Clandestine Service and in the Counterterrorism Center, as well as several Chief of Station roles, a news release from the CIA said. Haspel has received several awards in her career, including the Presidential Rank Award, the most prestigious award in the federal civil service.
According to The New York Times, Haspel has spent most of her career undercover.
While running a CIA prison in Thailand, dubbed a "black site," Haspel oversaw the torture of two terrorism suspects and her name was on a cable giving instructions to destroy video evidence documenting their interrogations, according to the Times. One of the suspects was reportedly waterboarded 83 times in one month.
Haspel, the Times reported in February, played a direct role in the agency's program that gave captured militants to foreign governments and held them at secret sites, where they were tortured by CIA staff.
Haspel will likely face opposition in her Senate confirmation for her involvement in the Thailand incident.
In 2013, California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein blocked Haspel's promotion within the clandestine service, the Times reported. And in 2017, a handful Senate Democrats called on Trump to withdraw Haspel from consideration for her role as deputy director, according to The Hill.