You are alternately kind, then cruel, then kind again. You seem to be an all encompassing version of "good cop--bad cop" albeit it without the dramatic "pause" between players to build credibility that the ruse is, in fact, real. "You're screwed, bloke." from the first rather sinister, offensive guy -- only to hear, "Wanna cigarette mate?" from his much more beneficent partner. It is difficult to pull off "good cop -- bad cop" all by your lonesome.
But, the attempt is becoming tiresome, if not tedious.
Like I said, What's your game, mate?
Yes I do admit I have come across as somewhat manic recently GB I think if the advice is I should take a chill. I think I surely will. No games though mate lol. I have been very Jekyll and Hyde. I'll email yah and give you the gourd so to speak.
No advice from me, Seamus. I was just wondering what was up. I remember the first time you replied to my posts. You did the same thing. So, I just thought maybe...but, I was wrong. Perhaps you just got some of those little green kiwi seeds stuck in your throat. Pain in the ass for anyone. Don't mind me--Carry on!:thumbsup:
GO_SECURE
monk
"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."
30-01-2012, 07:12 PM (This post was last modified: 30-01-2012, 10:43 PM by Albert Doyle.)
On Lancer Robin Unger introduced a clearer copy of Altgens from Marsh. It clearly shows a patch of neck skin in the blow-up of "Doorway Man" that is separate from the chin shadow. Because of this we can establish that the round neck T-shirt is separate and distinguishable from the V-shaped dark chin shadow that Fetzer and Cinque are mistaking for a "V-neck" T-shirt. Close analysis of Unger's Marsh scan will prove that Lovelady's round-neck T-shirt is visible on Doorway Man, as is a patch of lighter-colored skin which proves that the dark shadow seen as the V-shape is separate and distinguishable from that skin area proving beyond a doubt that they are two separate entities as the photo's film indicates. Unger is competent enough to detect that the V-shaped chin shadow is enhanced by the "over-contrast" evident in Altgens' photo and explains what Fetzer/Cinque are mistaking for a T-shirt neck opening.
This one case destroys Fetzer's theory and should put the issue to rest. Folks who want to continue to give this theory credibility can do so, but they do so at the expense of not recognizing this proof.
Albert Doyle Wrote:On Lancer Robin Unger introduced a clearer copy of Altgens from Marsh. It clearly shows a patch of neck skin in the blow-up of "Doorway Man" that is separate from the chin shadow. Because of this we can establish that the round neck T-shirt is separate and distinguishable from the V-shaped dark chin shadow that Fetzer and Cinque are mistaking for a "V-neck" T-shirt. Close analysis of Unger's Marsh scan will prove that Lovelady's round-neck T-shirt is visible on Doorway Man, as is a patch of lighter-colored skin which proves that the dark shadow seen as the V-shape is separate and distinguishable from that skin area proving beyond a doubt that they are two separate entities as the photo's film indicates. Unger is competent enough to detect that the V-shaped chin shadow is enhanced by the "over-contrast" evident in Altgens' photo and explains what Fetzer/Cinque are mistaking for a T-shirt neck opening.
This one case destroys Fetzer's theory and should put the issue to rest. Folks who want to continue to give this theory credibility can do so, but they do so at the expense of not recognizing this proof.
I agree with you mate but generally speaking Al, it's not just this. If we put together the evidence presented in your counters from Lancer alongside here. Not to mention additional comments and observations from Drago, Dragoo and even neutrals like GB and Adele. I think the case against Cinques argument is generally speaking pretty solid. I mean there's so many interesting things going on. Not just the shirt!
"In the Kennedy assassination we must be careful of running off into the ether of our own imaginations." Carl Ogelsby circa 1992
It turns out that our boy Lovelady was lying about those shirts of his. Here's the text, and I will also attach the image being discussed.
I realize that some of you here will simply refuse to look at it. But heck, what have you got to lose?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I'll tell you why I ask about the exact location of the pocket, Scott. It's because I'm a little confused about something.
Here is a diagram of the location of the pockets. You can see the pocket locations in yellow. And keep in mind that I didn't draw them in. One, as you can see, is the Robert Groden picture, and the other is the Robert Jackson picture.
I am going to assume that they are right about the location of those boxes that they drew. And I also presume that the boxes are drawn a little big. And I say that because that's what people generally do. When they draw a box around something, they make the box a little bigger than the object that they are trying to identify so that you can see the whole thing, and so that the margins are visible and unencumbered. Do you agree? Any problem with it?
Now, my question is this:
If they are both the same shirt, and I don't think there is any doubt that that is what they are implying, why is it that on the left, the top of the box is in the black space, whereas on the right, the top of the box is in the red space?
Shouldn't it be the same, if they are the same shirt?
hi adele, greg; according to the photo research the altgens was taken after the first shot, a second or two before the weigman photo...they are that close together...take care b..
[quote=Seamus Coogan][quote=Albert Doyle]On Lancer Robin Unger introduced a clearer copy of Altgens from Marsh. It clearly shows a patch of neck skin in the blow-up of "Doorway Man" that is separate from the chin shadow. Because of this we can establish that the round neck T-shirt is separate and distinguishable from the V-shaped dark chin shadow that Fetzer and Cinque are mistaking for a "V-neck" T-shirt. Close analysis of Unger's Marsh scan will prove that Lovelady's round-neck T-shirt is visible on Doorway Man, as is a patch of lighter-colored skin which proves that the dark shadow seen as the V-shape is separate and distinguishable from that skin area proving beyond a doubt that they are two separate entities as the photo's film indicates. Unger is competent enough to detect that the V-shaped chin shadow is enhanced by the "over-contrast" evident in Altgens' photo and explains what Fetzer/Cinque are mistaking for a T-shirt neck opening.
I have asked Doyle to post any other picture in which a round-necked t-shirt was made to look vee-shaped as a result of chin-shade. If this is real, it can't just have happened one time in the history of humanity when Billy Lovelady was standing outside the Book Depository. There has got to have been other times. And there's a big wide world out there of images, which is at your fingertips. I have tried to do your job for you. I've looked. And I can find no such thing. But, here are some sample pictures of guys with both chins and t-shirts. NOTHING COMES CLOSE TO IT. You're dreaming, Doyle. Snap out of it.
Do you think these don't apply? Do you think they are misrepresentative? OK, fine. Submit your own. Show me one other example of it. Otherwise, you're just wagging your lips, or I should say, tapping your fingers.
P.S. Be sure to open the bmp of Paul Newman, which is the last one. I think it's the most appropriate one. And you can see a lot of shade. But, it isn't falling right down in front.
Seamus Coogan Wrote:[quote=Albert Doyle]On Lancer Robin Unger introduced a clearer copy of Altgens from Marsh. It clearly shows a patch of neck skin in the blow-up of "Doorway Man" that is separate from the chin shadow. Because of this we can establish that the round neck T-shirt is separate and distinguishable from the V-shaped dark chin shadow that Fetzer and Cinque are mistaking for a "V-neck" T-shirt. Close analysis of Unger's Marsh scan will prove that Lovelady's round-neck T-shirt is visible on Doorway Man, as is a patch of lighter-colored skin which proves that the dark shadow seen as the V-shape is separate and distinguishable from that skin area proving beyond a doubt that they are two separate entities as the photo's film indicates. Unger is competent enough to detect that the V-shaped chin shadow is enhanced by the "over-contrast" evident in Altgens' photo and explains what Fetzer/Cinque are mistaking for a T-shirt neck opening.
I have asked Doyle to post any other picture in which a round-necked t-shirt was made to look vee-shaped as a result of chin-shade. If this is real, it can't just have happened one time in the history of humanity when Billy Lovelady was standing outside the Book Depository. There has got to have been other times. And there's a big wide world out there of images, which is at your fingertips. I have tried to do your job for you. I've looked. And I can find no such thing. But, here are some sample pictures of guys with both chins and t-shirts. NOTHING COMES CLOSE TO IT. You're dreaming, Doyle. Snap out of it.
Do you think these don't apply? Do you think they are misrepresentative? OK, fine. Submit your own. Show me one other example of it. Otherwise, you're just wagging your lips, or I should say, tapping your fingers.
P.S. Be sure to open the bmp of Paul Newman, which is the last one. I think it's the most appropriate one. And you can see a lot of shade. But, it isn't falling right down in front.
Did you really post images as though they were comparable to Altgens 6 to prove that chin shade could not have accounted for the darkness around Doorway Man's throat? Are you serious? Is your argument going to be: "Since it didn't happen in these examples, ergo it couldn't happen at all" --??
GO_SECURE
monk
"It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep."
I sincerely tried to find an image that duplicated the claimed effect in the Altgens photo. Now, if you don't like any of those, then you provide one of your own.
It can't be that Billy Lovelady had the only chin on the face of Earth the shade from which blackened his t-shirt in such a way as to create an excellent illusion of a vee-shape t-shirt.
You can't just claim stuff. You can't just wag your lips. Don't you realize that duplicating phenomena is integral to the scientific method?
As I've already posted Robin Unger brought a Marsh scan blow-up of Doorway Man that shows a clearly visible patch of skin next to the chin shadow in the image. This proves the dark area Fetzer and Cinque are calling a "V-neck" undershirt is the over-contrasted shadow from Lovelady's chin. A competent analysis of this scan would show beyond a doubt that the skin patch can be isolated from the dark shadow. What this tells you is the area of shadow that failed to fall on this spot left a patch of skin that registered a different look in the photo. This is really simple business that should be easy to understand. It proves that Lovelady is wearing the round-neck T-shirt he is seen wearing in the police station photo. The over-contrasted shadow from his chin is making this round-neck appear to look like the notch of a V-neck undershirt. On another forum someone asked Fetzer to describe what specifically is causing the dark area beneath Lovelady's chin? Fetzer refused to answer. That should tell you all you need to know. It's so simple it's silly. If this wasn't a shadow then the area beneath the chin would appear like the other flesh tones seen in Altgens. If it was the remaining unaltered neck area of Lee Harvey Oswald with the V-neck notch showing then it would contain the skin tones seen on people in the shot. It doesn't because it is the chin shadow dropping down in perfect conformity with the sun angle seen throughout the picture.
I know I am wasting my time on this because Dr Cinque is a gross incompetent who is woefully unqualified for this subject. He sees a sound technical argument and answers it with his tedious mickey mouse insanity. Hopefully there will be a good side to this and Cinque will drag Fetzer down with him and clean-up the credibility of the research community. Only a fool would offer the stupid ignorance Dr Cinque proffers and not realize how absurd it was in its own form. Yes, Dr Cinque is that stupid as to offer random shots of people and call it a credible test sample.
Yesterday I discovered the color film frame of Lovelady standing off to the side displays a chin shadow that comes down and partly distorts his round-neck T-shirt just like Doorway Man. Since we know this is Lovelady this proves that the chin shadow created the V-neck. Dr Cinque responded by refusing to even admit it was Lovelady in this color shot. That's dishonest and I refuse to debate with dishonest people. Dr Cinque is simply an unqualified ass who isn't all there and is wasting everybody's time. It's like arguing sober science with Ralph Cramden.
I pains me to see people like Lifton make a lengthy argument that Lovelady wore a different shirt in his posed shots. Lifton made a lengthy detailed argument that Lovelady's original plaid shirt was stolen by souvenir hunters and he replaced it with a similar shirt. Lifton tries to prove his claim by saying the shirt Lovelady posed in had no pocket. However, researchers were able to zoom-in on the shirt pocket area in the photo and proved there was a thin, poorly-visible shirt pocket on that shirt. Lifton simply doesn't see it. This kind of business pains me because such persons of high notoriety in the JFK research world shouldn't be seen making such amateurish mistakes in public. Lifton makes the same mistake as Fetzer, he gets all excited about his alleged discovery and fails to remember the plaid pattern seen at the police station is identical to that seen in the posed shot. Again, this is the danger of the Fetzer Assassination School. And now we see a grotesque mutation in the form of our miscreant sensation Dr Cinque.
Gary Mack cc'ed me saying Groden had clear copies of Altgens taken from the original negative that might be worth accessing.
I sincerely tried to find an image that duplicated the claimed effect in the Altgens photo. Now, if you don't like any of those, then you provide one of your own.
It can't be that Billy Lovelady had the only chin on the face of Earth the shade from which blackened his t-shirt in such a way as to create an excellent illusion of a vee-shape t-shirt.
You can't just claim stuff. You can't just wag your lips. Don't you realize that duplicating phenomena is integral to the scientific method?
The presentation of these photos for the stated purposes has as much to do with the "scientific method" as snake oil sold by a chiropractor has to do with medicine.
