The Selectice Service card photo

[Tom Scully]

Clements' report is dated 22 November and dictated on the 23rd. But he does not name who of the DPD informed
him that it was LHO's wallet. He claims he took a peek inside and then asked his questions.:



What is consistent is that no one of the DPD wants to be associated with Hidell ID in the billfold, purse, wallet,
at least in any paper record, until sometime in mid-December, but the FBI, in their own internal reporting, went all in beginning with Clements' report dated the 22nd and the 1:00 am, 27 November handoff to Hosty of 16 cards and a billfold. It still does not say Hidell, and neither does this.:


and the Hedel reference on Fritz's notes page, which is an unauthenticated document and he testified he did not
put notes on paper until sometime after the interviews, and this was supported by Harry Holmes.

So, the image below is the first DPD mention in the record that I have been able to locate, and of course, the FBI could conceal its own report and put it all on the DPD if a Hidell fabrication was ever discovered. So it is easy to understand why there is a demonstrable reluctance for DPD to timely mention a Hidell SS ID card recovered from LHO's billfold, purse, wallet by DPD office so and so, and it seems, they did not mention it concisely in 1963.
But....in 1994, Bentley is carrying around photos of the ID cards.



Larry Hancock :

Posted 10 September 2004 - 03:16 PM

Greg, not that it solves anything, but a couple of observations...

First, in Col. Jones interview he makes it clear that the 112th records do not
list Hidel as an actual alias for Oswald. There is discussion that the files
contain information that Lee Oswald was in possession of an FPCC membership
card signed by A.J. Hidell and of a statement made by Oswald to the FBI that
Hidel had recruited Oswald in August asking him to distruibute literature.

...which I suppose explains why Oswald was not immediately felt to
be using an alias in New Orleans, as I recall Hosty goes into length on this
point in his book developing why it took the New Orelans agents some two
months or so to come to the conclusion that there was no real AJ Hidell and that it the FPCC in N.O. was a one man game.

Jones goes on to say that on Nov. 22 he received information from Dallas that an individual had been arrested carrying identification with both the names A.J. Hidell (Selective Service Card) and Oswald. Jones seemed proud of the fact that a quick check of their files allowed him to reply to Dallas that the individual was Lee Oswald and that the name Hidell had been used before in association with Oswald. It's pretty apparent that he feels he figured out Hidell was Oswald - which does make him considerably faster than the FBI in New Orleans. It is sort of humorus that in his testimony, Jones still qualifies though ans says that "I am of the opinion that A.J. Hidell and Lee Harvey Oswald are one and the same"....because he is being questioned on whether it was at all possible there was a real A.J. Hidell.

-- Larry

Bill Kelly, seven years later:

Col. Robert Jones on the Oswald Dossier

HISTORY MATTERS

http://www.history-m...jones_0002a.htm

EXECUTIVE SESSION
THURSDAY, APRIL 20, 1978 US House of Representatives
Subcommitee on the Assassination of John F. Kennedy of theSelect Committee on Assassinations. Washington D.C. Room 1310, Longworth House Office Building.
Counsel for HSCA: B. Genzmen, H. Goldsmith;
Representatives Dodd, Fithian and Sawyer.

Highlights of the HSCA Executive Session Testimony of COL. ROBERT JONES:

MR. JONES: Upon my assignment to 112, I was appointed the operations officer for the entire group. The 112 MI group had seven regions under its operational control which encompassed a five-state area: Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, New Mexico and Oklahoma.

I was directly responsible for all counterintelligence, operations background investigations, domestic intelligence and any special operations in this area.

I directed the operations for seven regions and reported, through my group commander, to the Security Division of Fourth Army, Deputy Chief of Staff Intelligence.

We had a domestic intelligence function there that we collected information from various local, state and county law enforcement agencies or intelligence divisions. We maintained filings and built an index card file on individuals who may have been going into Mexicoand coming back.

HSCA COUNSEL: When did the name Lee Harvey Oswald first come to your attention?

MR. JONES: I would estimate the middle of 1963. I cannot be specific, though. Mr. Chairman, because I spent too many years, but I would believe it was the middle of 1963 when he was arrested in New Orleans, and I had liaison with the New Orleans police and through our regional office in New Orleans, they provided me with his arrest, his activities and we carded him under both the name of A. J. Hidell and Lee Harvey Oswald.

HSCA: Based on this information, what actions did you take?

MR. JONES: Well, he was of interest to us because of theanti-U.S. government position he was taking, his pro-Cuban activities as far as passing out literature and making speeches on the Fair Play for Cuba Committee,and I think we also had an interest in local agencies to get any information we could develop, to get information on a place of residence.

Additionally, we requested a file, or availability of afile, from the Central Records facility. This file was forwarded to us an wecompleted our dossier from information from the Central Records facility and from the local agency check and from the activities of his while he was in New Orleans.

HSCA: Are you saying that you maintained a file on LeeHarvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: Yes. I did have a file on Lee Harvey Oswald.

HSCA: Did this file contain a personality profile on Oswald?

MR. JONES: The personality profile, as I call it, is as much information as we have to develop on an individual, or without doing a comprehensive background investigation, and from this Central Records facilityfile, local agency check and from his activities, we considered that thepersonality profile.

HSCA: Were you personally responsible for the maintenance ofthe file, or were you personally involved in collecting any of this information?

MR. JONES: My position, as Chief of Operations, or Operations Officer for the Group, all reports would come over my desk and Iwould read them and indicate disposition of the documents.

Under my supervision, we had a domestic intelligence officer who would continue to screen the files and prepare the dossiers and the necessary cards and file them in his section, which was called domestic intelligence, or DI.

HSCA: Did the file on Oswald ever contain a summary report?

MR. JONES: The file only contained information that I just have given you. His activities in New Orleans.

HSCA: Let me rephrase the question, Colonel Jones. Did you,at any time, ever write a summary report or and "after action" report on LeeHarvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: Yes. I do not refer to a summary report. After the assassination of President Kennedy, I did write an after action report which covered all of the report, the actions that I took, the people that I notified, the time and so forth, and it was prepared as an after action report, and maintained in the Lee Harvey Oswald file.

HSCA: Based upon the information that you gathered on LeeHarvey Oswald, what conclusions did you reach as to this individual?

MR. JONES: As to the individual's character, as to his trustworthiness? I considered the man as a possible security risk or as a person that we should have an interest in from the review of his dossier. The fact that he had defected, gone to Russia,had traveled in Russia, and according to the file, had married a Russian national, and was permitted to return to the United States.That was sufficient enough for him to be of interest to any intelligence operating agency.

HSCA: Would you characterize Oswald as a possible counter-intelligence threat?

MR. JONES: I considered him to be a counter-intelligence threat at any time that he would have been in the area that I was responsible for operations.

HSCA: On the basis of your experience and knowledge of theLee Harvey Oswald file, would you say that the other American intelligenceagencies would have had an interest in Oswald and would have characterized himas a possible security or counter-intelligence threat?

MR. JONES: I would not speak for any intelligence agency as a factual report to this committee, but if I were assigned an operation in any intelligence agency, I would think that a man who had traveled to Russia would certainly be debriefed and be a potential source of information and based upon an investigation that we might conduct on the findings of this and the people considered reliable or targets in areas that we had an interest, he would be a potential source.

HSCA: Based on your expertise and intelligence experience, could you tell us which agency would have debriefed Oswald upon his return from the Soviet Union, if, in fact, that were ever done?

MR. JONES: From my experience, the CIA wouldhave debriefed him at one time and, upon return to the United States, the internal security division ofthe FBI would probably debrief him.

HSCA: To your knowledge, did the CIA ever debrief Lee Harvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: I have no personal knowledge of it.

HSCA: To your knowledge, did Military Intelligence ever debrief Lee Harvey Oswald?

MR. JONES: The Military Intelligence of my group did not debrief him.

HSCA: Based upon the information which you gathered on Oswald and also based on your experience, would you say that Lee Oswald's file was the type of file which should have been destroyed at some point in time.

MR. JONES: The Oswald file, since it pertained to theassassination of the President of the United States, in my opinion, should have been retained for reference or for historical purposes.

HSCA: If you were still Operations Officer in charge of theOswald file at a time when destruction of these types of files was being considered, under what circumstances would the file have been destroyed?

MR. JONES: I think I would have made a strong case to retain the file with my superiors and then if I were directed to destroy the file, I would have asked them to direct me to do so in writing so that it would be amatter of record.

HSCA: Colonel Jones, I next would like to ask you about the liaison operations between military intelligence and the Secret Service.

MR. JONES: At any time that the President, or Vice President, or anyone at the Secret Service had responsible for physical protection, would be scheduled to arrive in the area, they would contact our Group Headquarters or our Regional Headquarters and we would augment their force, if necessary, to provide some type of physical coverage, that is, a manon the street, or an observation of people, vehicles, communications, or any other information or support that we could provide.

But in every case, to my knowledge, our people were under the control and supervision of the Secret Service. We never assume responsibility for the President's protection.

HSCA: Would you characterize these operations as supplementing the manpower of the Secret Service

MR. JONES: Yes, I would.

HSCA: With specific reference to President Kennedy's trip toTexas, would you relate to the committee your connection with liaison operations with the Secret Service?

MR. JONES: We provided a small force I do not recall how many, but I would estimate between eight and twelve during the President's visit to San Antonio, Texas; and then the following day, on his visit to Dallas, the regions also provided additional people to assist, that is additional people from Region 2.

HSCA: Did these people which you provided include sources who were in contact with various local law enforcement agencies?

MR. JONES: The people who were in contact with either the intelligence division or the State Police or the Police Department or the FBI or Secret Service, were reporting either directly to me or to the Regional Operations officers.

The information would be provided to the Secret Service if necessary, or to the FBI, but it was normally channels through the region or to the group headquarters. This information would then be made available to the requesting investigating agency.

For More:

http://jfkcountercou...houston_05.html
Edited by William Kelly, 05 February 2011 - 01:32 PM.

Robert Howard Posted 06 February 2011

Home/Archive/Documents/JFK Assassination Documents/House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA)/HSCA Segregated CIA Collection (staff notes)
180-10147-10166
Mr. Jones believes that one person with whom he would have spoken to was FBI Special Agent In Charge J Gordon Shanklin. He may have talked with the Dallas
FBI office more than one time that day......
In addition Jones believes that this "after action report" included information obtained from reports filed by the eight to twelve military agents
who performed liason functions with the Secret Service in Dallas on the day of the assassination.
http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=104


FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File Section 1
At 3:15 p.m. November 22, 1963, Lt. Colonel Robert E. Jones,
Operations Officer 112th INCT Group, San Antonio, advised
that through news broadcasts they had learned that Lee Harvey
Oswald had been arrested after killing a Police Officer in a theater
and that Oswald was a suspect in President Kennedy's death.
Jones stated Oswald reportedly is married to a Russian woman
and has traveled extensively in Russia. When arrested today
in Dallas, according to information Col. Jones has,
Oswald was carrying a selective service card bearing the name
of Alex Hidell. Jones stated that INTC records here reflect reference
to an A. J. Hidell who reportedly has been distributing "Hands Off
Cuba" literature.
Records of INCT in New Orleans reflect that Oswald has been arrested
in New Orleans for distributing pro-Cuban literature.
The records of the Corpus Christi INTC Group contained the following
newspaper articles:
Corpus Christi Caller 1 November 1959
"EX-MARINE DEFECTS TO RUSSIA
"Texan Asks Russia to Become Citizen
"Moscow A.P.
"An ex-Marine from Texas told the U.S. Embassy
Saturday, that he was applying for Soviet citizenship.
"'I have made up my mind, I'm through' said Lee
Harvey Oswald, 20, of Fort Worth, Texas slapping his passport
on the desk.
http://www.maryferre...0&relPageId=185
the 105-82555 document continues to at least the page/URL below.
http://www.maryferre...0&relPageId=188

And Marina's perjury is interesting, although David Lifton would probably blame her translator or her poor english.

Miles Scull February 22, 2012

MARINA & "HIDELL"

On the topic of when she first learned of the name "Hidell", Marina told three different stories.



STORY # 1

Commission Exhibit 1789 is an interview that the Secret Service conducted with Marina Oswald on December 10, 1963.

On page 2 of that document, she was asked specifically if her husband used the name "Hidell" and she, according to the report, "replied in the negative".



STORY # 2

Just two months later, in her February 1964 testimony before the Warren Commission, she said that she learned about the fictitious "Hidell" from Oswald's radio debate in New Orleans.

Mr. RANKIN. Have you ever heard that he used the fictitious name Hidell?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When did you first learn that he used such a name?

Mrs. Oswald. In New Orleans.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn that?

Mrs. Oswald. When he was interviewed by some anti-Cubans, he used this name and spoke of an organization.

Mr. RANKIN. How did you discover it, then?

Mrs. Oswald. I already said that when I listened to the radio, they spoke of that name, and I asked him who, and he said that it was he.

( 1 H 64 )

But the name "Hidell" was never mentioned during the radio debate, as one can see by examining a transcript of that broadcast ( Stuckey Exhibit 3 )

In addition to the non-mention of "Hidell" during the broadcast, Lt. Frank Martello of the New Orleans Police appeared before the Commission on April 7 & 8, 1964 and testified that when he interviewed Oswald, he asked Oswald for identification and Oswald produced his wallet. Martello asked him to empty the wallet and examined the contents of it. Among the contents was:

4. Card for the New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in name of LEE HARVEY Oswald signed by A. J. HIDELL, Chapter President, issued June 6, 1963." ( 10 H 54 )

This was a signature on the card that Marina had signed and was seen by Martello before THE RADIO BROADCAST.

And Martello wasn't the only one who saw it.

FBI agent John Quigley interviewed Oswald at the time of his New Orleans arrest and testified on May 5, 1964 that he also SAW the FPCC membership card signed by "Hidell".

Mr. McCLOY. Did he have the membership cards in his possession at that time?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir; he did, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. You saw them?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir; I did, sir. I think the last you will notice, in that last sentence he had in his possession both cards and exhibited both of them.

Mr. McCLOY. Right. One of them was, at least one of them, was signed A. Hidell?

Mr. QUIGLEY. Yes, sir; that is correct.

( 4 H 434 )

SO THERE ARE TWO WITNESSES WHO PROVE THAT MARINA'S # 2 STORY IS A LIE. SHE SIGNED THAT CARD before THE RADIO BROADCAST.



STORY # 3

Because of these developments, Marina Oswald was invited back to give testimony and appeared before the Commission on June 11, 1964. At that time she admitted signing the FPCC card as "A.J. Hidell" and said that Oswald threatened to beat her if she didn't sign the card.

If story # 3 was the truth, then the first two stories were lies.

She was never questioned about why she lied to the SS in December 1963 or why she lied under oath to the Commission in February 1964. The Commission just accepted her latest version of events as the truth because her latest version satisfied its preconceived notions.

"Oswald's membership card in the "New Orleans chapter" of the committee carried the signature of "A. J. Hidell," purportedly the president of the chapter, but there is no evidence that an "A. J. Hidell" existed and.....there is conclusive evidence that the name was an alias which Oswald used on various occasions. Marina Oswald herself wrote the name "Hidell" on the membership card at her husband's insistence." ( Report, pg. 292 )

Ed Butler could have verified Marina's claim of hearing the name Hidell on the radio show, but his name is not
on the witness list.: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/stuckey.htm
The testimony of William Kirk Stuckey was taken at 9:35 a.m., on June 6, 1964
............
Mr. JENNER. Had he again distributed hand, bills?
Mr. STUCKEY. To my knowledge; no. He may have. He may have. But, of course, I had no particular interest in it, and the papers were not carrying stories about it, and I, well, just had no contact with him at all.
I did not meet him until August 17, at which time I went by his house on Magazine Street to ask him to appear on my program. This was early in the morning, about 8 o'clock. I went early because I wanted to get him before he left.
Mr. JENNER. This was a Saturday?
Mr. STUCKEY. It is a Saturday. I knocked on the door, and this young fellow came out, without a shirt. He had a pair of Marine Corps fatigue trousers on. I asked him, "Are you Lee Oswald ?" And he said, "Yes."
I introduced myself and I told him I would like to have him on my program that night. So he asked me in on the porch. This was a screened porch, and I had a very brief chat. He said he would ask me inside for some coffee but that his wife and his baby were sleeping so we had better talk on the porch.
Mr. JENNER. Describe this Magazine Street place. Were you able to find it easily?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; no problem. It was on the side of the house or the entrance was on the side.
Mr. JENNER. Was on the side and somewhat back from the front?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; it was facing the street; it wasn't facing the side of the property, but it was off set, to the rear.
Mr. JENNER. Frame house?
Mr. STUCKEY. Yes; it was a frame house, as well as I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. STUCKEY. So we had a few cursory remarks there about the organization. He showed me his membership card to the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, which was interesting, and .it identified him as the secretary of the New Orleans chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, and it was signed by A. Hidell, president.
Mr. JENNER. Was that president or secretary?
Mr. STUCKEY. President, A. Hidell. He was identified on the card. as I recall, as the secretary.
Mr. JENNER. That is, Oswald?
Mr. STUCKEY. Oswald; yes. It was a card on which there was a handwritten--it said "Mr." and then a blank, and a handwritten name "Lee Oswald" was in the center of the card. In the lower right-hand corner it was signed by A. Hidell, president.
Mr. JENNER. Was this name familiar to you?
Mr. STUCKEY. No; as a matter of fact, I would like to explain this, that the name meant nothing to me at all, and the name never occurred to me again, I never thought of the name again, until after the assassination when Mr. Henry Wade of Dallas on television on a Sunday, I believe, mentioned that Oswald purchased a rifle from a Chicago mail-order house and had used the name A. Hidell in purchasing the rifle. When he said "A. Hidell" it hit me like, it was like a light bulb over my head, I recalled the name. Otherwise I would never have remembered the name. Oswald gave me some pieces of literature at this time. There were several-- I will mention them if you would like.
Mr. JENNER. I wish you would.........