At last: Shickshinny Knights of Malta linked to the Draper/Vonsiatsky Condon ManCand crowds

[Jan Klimkowski]

It's time to explore some basic concepts, such as what is meant by Manchurian Candidate.

(snip)

John is entirely correct that the first and original usage - to my knowledge - is by Richard Condon. I suspect that John is also correct in that Condon's primary meaning is of a constructed Presidential candidate, a "sleeper" programmed by a foreign power, in this instance in Manchuria.

John - do you further interpret this to suggest the creation of a White Russian Fuhrer who may not himself be programmed?

Well not the creation, per se, but the reality. I think that Anastase Vonsiatsky was chosen by consensus as the "Candidate" (from Manchuria) of the White Russian emigres to help them recover their lost homeland, mother Russia.

By the same token Condon probably meant that Vonsiatsky bragged about his communications from Ribbentrop, Geobels, von Ludendroff and others where Vonsiatsky stated that he was the Nazis chosen "Candidate" as the proposed new Russian Czar or premiere of a conquered and Fascist occupied Russian state. Again he was from Manchuria where his headquarters were and he used the Pavlovian and maybe some Chinese tricks to program his "assassins" and "saboteurs" which he admitted sending back into communist occupied Russia on suicide assassination missions. To go on patently obvious suicide missions is evidence of having been programmed. Like the Palestinian suicide bombers or what I think was exactly like the 9/11 Kamikaze-styled and Kamikaze-trained pilots in 2001.

So Vonsiatsky was THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE or Canditatus for two groups: White Russian Czarist emigres and for the Nazi leadership and their Gestapo. Remember that I discovered 2 manuscripts by Dietrich von Eckart in the Providence College Vonsiatsky collection hidden in the deep recesses of some library. Vonsiatsky communicated with the highest levels of the Nazi leadership and then boasted about that to his neighbors in Putnam/Thompson while either rip roaring drunk or while playing golf or while playing God. But he was for real.

John - thank you for expanding on your hypothesis here. Can you provide some further details of the section I've bolded above, where you suggest that Vonsiatsky using Chinese and Pavlovian methods to programme individuals for suicide missions? Thanks.

Also, do you think these programmed individuals would fit Colin Ross' definition of a Manchurian Candidate assassin?

Ross' own definition of Manchurian Candidate is as follows:

According to my definition, the Manchurian Candidate is an experimentally created dissociative identity disorder that meets the following four criteria:

1) Created deliberately
2) A new identity is implanted
3) Amnesia barriers are created
4) Used in simulated or actual operations.

From Ross, The CIA Doctors, p 35

Next:

Lee Harvey Oswald had undergone intensive MKULTRA training under the real Ray S. Cline while his unit was stationed in Ping Tung, Taiwan for a 30-45 day period when Cline was stationed there with the CIA and living in his "Pink Palace" on a hill. Ray Cline and John Singlaub, later head of the World Anti-Communist League, had headed up the O.S.S. offices in Mukden, Manchuria, China shortly after World War II which was in close proximity to the headquarters of Anastase Vonsiatsky where he and George deMohrenschildt plus 100,000 other exiled White Russians were living out their diapora. See: "The Russian Fascists" by Prof. John J. Stephan at that time a Professor at the University of Hawaii. (Little, Brown - 1979). Vonsiatsky's headquarters were in Harbin, Manchuoko, Manchuria during the Japanese occupation in the 1930's and the 1940's. Vonsiatsky had designed and then executed training programs for programmed assassins, saboteurs and commandos as well as for the Japanese Kamikaze pilots as part of their desperation attempts to turn the tide of the war. Vonsiatsky was also involved with the Section 731 bacteriological warfare and vivisection experiments operated by the Japanese on unwilling POWs and Chinese citizens which were ongoing in Harbin as well during the later stages of World War II. They were obviously trying to determine the most effective and efficient bacteriological agent to release on allied troops. Maj. Gen. Charles A. Willoughby confiscated all of these records and some human detritus produced as a result of these experiments, when he visited Harbin right after the war. It was at this point that he became familiar with the work of Anastase Vonsiatsky in Harbin as well whom he apparently later befriended and recruited into his Shickshinny Knights of Malta orbit of fiends and associates shortly after that.

John - again, I'm keen get a clearer sense of your hypothesis here.

With regard to Oswald having been "programmed" directly by Ray S Cline in Taiwan, I believe your evidence is as follows:

The logical inference is that Oswald was being trained in Taiwan by one of Cline's Manchurian Candidate MK/ULTRA programs. Oswald may have shot Corporal Schrand in the armpit while he was in Taiwan as a demonstration of his prowess as an assassin, I can not recall now. When did Oswald shoot Schrand anway? The only way you can shoot someone in the armpit and into his heart is if his hands are raised straight above his head or if they are clasped behind his neck in the classic prisoner's march pose. Mark Diaz in a presentation penned by someone else, offered gratuitous, duplicitous and inaccurate excuses as to how Schrand was supposedly shot in the armpit after he accidentally dropped his rifle, butt first onto the ground and from that point forward he was, and still is, persona non grata in the JFK investigation.

Wait, when was Oswald in Taiwan? I thought he had been stationed in Okinawa for some reason, but Atsugi is in central Japan, in Yamato in Kanagawa prefecture. Can't find any ref to him being in Okinawa, which is closer to Taiwan, but still a long way off.

Just Google Oswald Taiwan and you would get this entry... Just because you can not find a certain reference does not mean it does not exist. It just means that you haven't searched in all the "right places" with all of the appropriate keywords:

"However, the medical record inconsistencies don’t get any easier to parse. On September 16, 1958 Oswald’s unit leaves Atsugi for work in Ping Tung, Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit. A Marine Corps unit record is called a diary. The event is recorded in the unit diary and Oswald is on that ship—he is mentioned by name. Meanwhile his medical records state during this period he was receiving medical treatment at the base hospital in Atsugi from the time the Skagit leaves throughout much of September of 1958. He was ailing from urethritis to hemorrhoids. It’s hard to comprehend that there are two Oswald’s in the same unit at the same time and place."

It was supposedly during the month of September that Oswald contracted and was treated for this urinary tract disorder (or this STD) and then spent some time being mind controlled or conditioned instead. Certainly a simple case of urethritis and hemorrhoids does not mandate a 30-day stay mostly incommunicado in a base hospital, now does it?

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/...tcount=125

Is it not equally plausible that Oswald stayed at Atsugi, a known MK-ULTRA site, and was programmed there?

In my judgement, it is very important to be clear about the nature and origin of any "programming" that may have taken place. As per my posts earlier in this thread, there is no known historical evidence that Unit 731, which was based in Harbin, Manchuria, conducted any psychological or mind control research. Unit 731 did conduct gruesome and ruthless biological and chemical weapons experimentation, and quite possibly operations.

It is clear that there were numerous mind control programmes - eg Chinese, Soviet, British intelligence, CIA, ONI, US Military Intelligence. In the 1940s and 50s, my best judgement is that their methodology was based on some combination of the following three main factors:

i) Behaviourist and Pavlovian models of the brain;
ii) knowledge of the impact of severe trauma on the human psyche and the resulting "malleability" of the brain;
iii) spiritual, shamanic and occult techniques and traditions.

I've written about this here:

http://www.deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/....php?t=223

I consider it important to be clear about which mind control programming, if you will, we are claiming is in play at any particular time.

So, for instance, I believe it is entirely plausible that Lee Harvey Oswald was progarmmed using MK-ULTRA techniques in Atsugi. Oswald was then despatched to the Soviet Union as a false defector.

It is also entirely plausible that the Soviets regarded Oswald as a false, rather than a genuine, defector. In addition, if they suspected that Oswald had been the subject of mind control programming, they would most certainly have taken a look inside his psyche (eg during his periods of hospitalisation in the USSR) - primarily to see precisely how he had been programmed.

In short, if there was MK-ULTRA programming inside Oswald's head, learning its secrets would have been quite a prize for the Soviet Union's own black shrinks.

And then, at the heart of the Cold War, the defector and traitor Oswald returns, ever so easily, to America, with his Russian bride from an intelligence-connected family, and into the bosom of a far right White Russian community.

If Oswald's brain had been subjected to MK-ULTRA programming at Atsugi (or even earlier if we consider John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee research), and this was discovered by Soviet black shrinks before his return to America, then Oswald is quite a prize. And quite a pawn.

No wonder he was surrounded by so many would-be handlers and controllers.